The part of this article that is most disconcerting apart from the suicide aspect is the mention that she was diagnosed with autism at age 21.
One the two core characteristics in autism is challenges in social communication and interaction skills alongside restrictive and repetitive behaviors. Autistics struggle with restrictive thinking …
The part of this article that is most disconcerting apart from the suicide aspect is the mention that she was diagnosed with autism at age 21.
One the two core characteristics in autism is challenges in social communication and interaction skills alongside restrictive and repetitive behaviors. Autistics struggle with restrictive thinking patterns. For those with Asperger’s /Level 1 this restrictive thinking can present differently leading the person to get stuck in a thought loop or pattern that can be devastating. A coexisting condition with Asperger’s/Autism Spectrum Disorders is anxiety and depression. The anxiety is aggravated tremendously by having to navigate a neuro-typical world that can be cruel but also difficult to understand as their brain processes the environment differently.
Zoraya was diagnosed at the age of 21 which is not uncommon for girls with autism also extremely tragic. Very common for autistics with late diagnosis to have mental health issues. They have navigated life without a tool box for coping with autistic symptoms and meeting the needs that result from these symptoms. Zoraya seemed to have Asperger’s which is level 1 autism. Girls do not get diagnosed as often as boys with autism because they present very differently and they can camouflage their symptoms in ways that boys don’t.
This is the first tragedy regarding Zoraya she missed out on at least 18 years of interventions that could of helped her understand, cope and better meet her needs. I own a Center that provides interventions for autistics. It seems from the little information in the article that she was seeking help but was told there was no hope for her. She also had no family support. This affirmed her already restricted thoughts on coping with her condition. Zoraya could have been helped to manage her anxiety and depression. She could of also benefited from cognitive behavioral therapy.
Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) is a type of psychotherapeutic treatment that helps people learn how to identify and change the destructive or disturbing thought patterns that have a negative influence on their behavior and emotions.1Cognitive behavioral therapy combines cognitive therapy with behavior therapy by identifying maladaptive patterns of thinking, emotional responses, or behaviors and replacing them with more desirable patterns.2
Learning self-care for managing the stressors resulting from the mental, emotional and physical energy required to continuously be adapting due to being in environments that can be hostile to their senses. Tragically girls and women with autism are misdiagnosed typically with mental health conditions first overlooking the source of the thinking or core characteristic that is leading to the anxiety or depression. Our thinking drives our behavior. At the Social Mind Center “Our focus at SMC is on thinking, not behavior. Thinking drives behavior. To adapt our behaviors to the social situation, we must have social, emotional, and organized thinking”. Autistics struggle with disorganized thinking because they are typically placed under an enormously amount of stress leading to heightened anxiety which unmanaged can be extremely depleting leading to depression. If anyone of you has experienced high levels of anxiety you can sympathize that it is very difficult to have clarity or organized thinking.
With all the autism awareness campaigns globally there is still a significant failure is diagnosis and supports for the autistic community. You would think that with the rise in numbers there would be less Zoraya’s. Autistics have three-fold higher rates of suicide and suicide attempt than the general population.
Autism is very complex no two people on the spectrum are alike. There are recognizable patterns of behavior and thinking that should be identifiable by medical professions. Tragically I see this too often in autistics that have received a late diagnosis they are at a crisis point and the secondary symptoms are being treated and the core source is being overlooked.
REFERENCES:
Hofmann SG, Asnaani A, Vonk IJ, Sawyer AT, Fang A. The efficacy of cognitive behavioral therapy: A review of meta-analyses. Cognit Ther Res. 2012;36(5):427-440. doi:10.1007/s10608-012-9476-1
I mean I have ASD level 1, ADHD, Bipolar 2, PMDD, CPTSD, and I support people's rights to self-determination.
Every person is different. It's stunning to me that people who haven't walked in her shoes think they know best. Most of these people don't know what it's like dealing with multiple mental health conditions. And if they do and they can "get through it" - good for them. It's not their business how others do it.
The methodologies don't always work. I've been in hundreds of support groups and therapy sessions. I know people with treatment-resistant depression, and yes they've tried ketamine and shrooms and ECT. I know people with depression that's easily treated. CBT has massive limitations. The cognitive therapies don't do much for me.
"Slippery slope" is a logical fallacy - you can't go on stopping policy due to personal habit of catastrophization. Just because one young woman chooses this doesn't mean others will.
Personally, I think normalizing this is actually a smart harm-reduction move that will prevent more suicides overall. If people feel they have that option they can discuss it with loved ones, exhaust all options. When they know someone's going to put them on a 5150 hold instead of supporting their needs and wants, they're not going to say anything to anyone.
Euthanasia for psychiatric illness has been around for a while in NL and BE, and they also do it in Switzerland.
While it is nice that you are so enthusiastic about the power of therapists to help people, I think you have rather jumped to the conclusion that the autism diagnosis is the be-all-and-end all of this case. It is interesting that one of the errors of thinking that CBT targets is all-or-nothing thinking. Holding that CBT or indeed any other psychotherapy is the solution for psychological problems or completely useless is all-or-nothing thinking. CBT helps a sizable number of people depending on the problem (high success for say panic disorder) but quite disappointing results for other problems (anger management helps but is not great). Depression while often helped by CBT is often a relapsing condition. The meta-analysis you cite confirms that CBT is quite effective with some problems and not very helpful with other problems and I am pretty sure that is true with all types of psychotherapy i.e. some people get a lot out of therapy and others not very much. A small number of people get worse with therapy. With this case/story we simply don't know the range of problems the person had. The information in the article is all what the person said to the journalists, for obvious reasons we don't hear from her treating psychiatrist. It is indicated that she also had a personality disorder but no further information. While it is true that treatments like DBT can be helpful for borderline personality disorder, it is also true that they only help a proportion of cases. Finally I would say we need to avoid being all or nothing about psychiatric diagnosis: it's not a worthless enterprise but nor is it like diagnosis in the rest of medicine i.e. it's power to predict what treatments will work etc is quite modest.
Thanks for this, I've found the cognitive therapies to be of mild help overall, even for anxiety. Things like good food, exercise, staying busy, music, dance, laughter often help far more. REBT over CBT any day of the week.
Agreed therapists are not the end all be all. I can be guilty of living in a bubble with amazing compasisionate, gifted and humble professionals. I am aware of what you are sharing. The reason being that I got into this profession to help my own children through these struggles with anxiety and depression. There are many forms and types of treatment I was just highlighting one. Agreed that there is so much information missing from this article. However, I see this all too often from autistics they struggle to get the support they need. Most of the therapies that autistics encounter is more focused on attempting to make them more neurotypical. I agree with you on all your points. Depression is a relapsing condition especially in autism. In the last 15 years you would be shocked to know what I have seen make the most impact in our community at our Center is our brick club. Where we meet weekly to colloboratively build LEGO projects.
Also I did note that autism is a very complex and every individual with autism is extremely unique requiring individualized support. For my children who are now adults what has been most helpful is understanding their neurodivergence and acquring coping skills.
Glad my comments made sense. Given the rather meager predictive power of psychiatric diagnosis and the huge gaps in our knowledge about how to help people with various psychological problems I am rather disturbed by the idea of euthanasia for mental disorders but perhaps that's just an emotional reaction.
Yes I hesitated to read this article for that very reason. Suicide is a very difficult reality for me to process. This is a very disturbing idea. Yes, agreed on psychiatric diagnosis.
I think we should take a much more rational and objective view on it. Look at it without all the societal/religious programming and emotion. Life for most people on the planet is miserable. Sickness, poverty, disease. We are stupidly and naively bubbled in America. Just look at how women are treated and mutilated in many parts of the world.
We must be scientifically minded toward suicide if we have any hopes of preventing it, and I'm not sure why everyone's in such a hurry to do so in the first place. If society's ills are the cause, then fix society first - don't tell the poor, suffering individual that they must continue to live to satisfy your own personal values. You may be faring far, far better in life. It is not your place.
There's a reason the Dutch spearheaded all of this - they are radical pragmatists. Most people in NL don't agree with things like prostitution and weed, but the government knows people will do it anyway, so they allow it to make it safer. Making euthanasia legal at least allows people to tell their loved ones and have a conversation and have support. They don't judge it or moralize about it. They take the sentiment out and are rational. I think that's empowering for the individual.
Conservatives supposedly value individual freedom and liberty, so I'm not sure why they oppose these policies. I suspect it's due to cognitive distortions like overgeneralization and catastrophizing - assuming this will be "contagious" and "everyone will want to die".
The part of this article that is most disconcerting apart from the suicide aspect is the mention that she was diagnosed with autism at age 21.
One the two core characteristics in autism is challenges in social communication and interaction skills alongside restrictive and repetitive behaviors. Autistics struggle with restrictive thinking patterns. For those with Asperger’s /Level 1 this restrictive thinking can present differently leading the person to get stuck in a thought loop or pattern that can be devastating. A coexisting condition with Asperger’s/Autism Spectrum Disorders is anxiety and depression. The anxiety is aggravated tremendously by having to navigate a neuro-typical world that can be cruel but also difficult to understand as their brain processes the environment differently.
Zoraya was diagnosed at the age of 21 which is not uncommon for girls with autism also extremely tragic. Very common for autistics with late diagnosis to have mental health issues. They have navigated life without a tool box for coping with autistic symptoms and meeting the needs that result from these symptoms. Zoraya seemed to have Asperger’s which is level 1 autism. Girls do not get diagnosed as often as boys with autism because they present very differently and they can camouflage their symptoms in ways that boys don’t.
This is the first tragedy regarding Zoraya she missed out on at least 18 years of interventions that could of helped her understand, cope and better meet her needs. I own a Center that provides interventions for autistics. It seems from the little information in the article that she was seeking help but was told there was no hope for her. She also had no family support. This affirmed her already restricted thoughts on coping with her condition. Zoraya could have been helped to manage her anxiety and depression. She could of also benefited from cognitive behavioral therapy.
Cognitive behavioral therapy (CBT) is a type of psychotherapeutic treatment that helps people learn how to identify and change the destructive or disturbing thought patterns that have a negative influence on their behavior and emotions.1Cognitive behavioral therapy combines cognitive therapy with behavior therapy by identifying maladaptive patterns of thinking, emotional responses, or behaviors and replacing them with more desirable patterns.2
Learning self-care for managing the stressors resulting from the mental, emotional and physical energy required to continuously be adapting due to being in environments that can be hostile to their senses. Tragically girls and women with autism are misdiagnosed typically with mental health conditions first overlooking the source of the thinking or core characteristic that is leading to the anxiety or depression. Our thinking drives our behavior. At the Social Mind Center “Our focus at SMC is on thinking, not behavior. Thinking drives behavior. To adapt our behaviors to the social situation, we must have social, emotional, and organized thinking”. Autistics struggle with disorganized thinking because they are typically placed under an enormously amount of stress leading to heightened anxiety which unmanaged can be extremely depleting leading to depression. If anyone of you has experienced high levels of anxiety you can sympathize that it is very difficult to have clarity or organized thinking.
With all the autism awareness campaigns globally there is still a significant failure is diagnosis and supports for the autistic community. You would think that with the rise in numbers there would be less Zoraya’s. Autistics have three-fold higher rates of suicide and suicide attempt than the general population.
Autism is very complex no two people on the spectrum are alike. There are recognizable patterns of behavior and thinking that should be identifiable by medical professions. Tragically I see this too often in autistics that have received a late diagnosis they are at a crisis point and the secondary symptoms are being treated and the core source is being overlooked.
REFERENCES:
Hofmann SG, Asnaani A, Vonk IJ, Sawyer AT, Fang A. The efficacy of cognitive behavioral therapy: A review of meta-analyses. Cognit Ther Res. 2012;36(5):427-440. doi:10.1007/s10608-012-9476-1
I mean I have ASD level 1, ADHD, Bipolar 2, PMDD, CPTSD, and I support people's rights to self-determination.
Every person is different. It's stunning to me that people who haven't walked in her shoes think they know best. Most of these people don't know what it's like dealing with multiple mental health conditions. And if they do and they can "get through it" - good for them. It's not their business how others do it.
The methodologies don't always work. I've been in hundreds of support groups and therapy sessions. I know people with treatment-resistant depression, and yes they've tried ketamine and shrooms and ECT. I know people with depression that's easily treated. CBT has massive limitations. The cognitive therapies don't do much for me.
"Slippery slope" is a logical fallacy - you can't go on stopping policy due to personal habit of catastrophization. Just because one young woman chooses this doesn't mean others will.
Personally, I think normalizing this is actually a smart harm-reduction move that will prevent more suicides overall. If people feel they have that option they can discuss it with loved ones, exhaust all options. When they know someone's going to put them on a 5150 hold instead of supporting their needs and wants, they're not going to say anything to anyone.
Euthanasia for psychiatric illness has been around for a while in NL and BE, and they also do it in Switzerland.
While it is nice that you are so enthusiastic about the power of therapists to help people, I think you have rather jumped to the conclusion that the autism diagnosis is the be-all-and-end all of this case. It is interesting that one of the errors of thinking that CBT targets is all-or-nothing thinking. Holding that CBT or indeed any other psychotherapy is the solution for psychological problems or completely useless is all-or-nothing thinking. CBT helps a sizable number of people depending on the problem (high success for say panic disorder) but quite disappointing results for other problems (anger management helps but is not great). Depression while often helped by CBT is often a relapsing condition. The meta-analysis you cite confirms that CBT is quite effective with some problems and not very helpful with other problems and I am pretty sure that is true with all types of psychotherapy i.e. some people get a lot out of therapy and others not very much. A small number of people get worse with therapy. With this case/story we simply don't know the range of problems the person had. The information in the article is all what the person said to the journalists, for obvious reasons we don't hear from her treating psychiatrist. It is indicated that she also had a personality disorder but no further information. While it is true that treatments like DBT can be helpful for borderline personality disorder, it is also true that they only help a proportion of cases. Finally I would say we need to avoid being all or nothing about psychiatric diagnosis: it's not a worthless enterprise but nor is it like diagnosis in the rest of medicine i.e. it's power to predict what treatments will work etc is quite modest.
Thanks for this, I've found the cognitive therapies to be of mild help overall, even for anxiety. Things like good food, exercise, staying busy, music, dance, laughter often help far more. REBT over CBT any day of the week.
Agreed therapists are not the end all be all. I can be guilty of living in a bubble with amazing compasisionate, gifted and humble professionals. I am aware of what you are sharing. The reason being that I got into this profession to help my own children through these struggles with anxiety and depression. There are many forms and types of treatment I was just highlighting one. Agreed that there is so much information missing from this article. However, I see this all too often from autistics they struggle to get the support they need. Most of the therapies that autistics encounter is more focused on attempting to make them more neurotypical. I agree with you on all your points. Depression is a relapsing condition especially in autism. In the last 15 years you would be shocked to know what I have seen make the most impact in our community at our Center is our brick club. Where we meet weekly to colloboratively build LEGO projects.
Also I did note that autism is a very complex and every individual with autism is extremely unique requiring individualized support. For my children who are now adults what has been most helpful is understanding their neurodivergence and acquring coping skills.
Peter thank you for your feedback.
Glad my comments made sense. Given the rather meager predictive power of psychiatric diagnosis and the huge gaps in our knowledge about how to help people with various psychological problems I am rather disturbed by the idea of euthanasia for mental disorders but perhaps that's just an emotional reaction.
Yes I hesitated to read this article for that very reason. Suicide is a very difficult reality for me to process. This is a very disturbing idea. Yes, agreed on psychiatric diagnosis.
I think we should take a much more rational and objective view on it. Look at it without all the societal/religious programming and emotion. Life for most people on the planet is miserable. Sickness, poverty, disease. We are stupidly and naively bubbled in America. Just look at how women are treated and mutilated in many parts of the world.
We must be scientifically minded toward suicide if we have any hopes of preventing it, and I'm not sure why everyone's in such a hurry to do so in the first place. If society's ills are the cause, then fix society first - don't tell the poor, suffering individual that they must continue to live to satisfy your own personal values. You may be faring far, far better in life. It is not your place.
There's a reason the Dutch spearheaded all of this - they are radical pragmatists. Most people in NL don't agree with things like prostitution and weed, but the government knows people will do it anyway, so they allow it to make it safer. Making euthanasia legal at least allows people to tell their loved ones and have a conversation and have support. They don't judge it or moralize about it. They take the sentiment out and are rational. I think that's empowering for the individual.
Conservatives supposedly value individual freedom and liberty, so I'm not sure why they oppose these policies. I suspect it's due to cognitive distortions like overgeneralization and catastrophizing - assuming this will be "contagious" and "everyone will want to die".