Perhaps Olivia could write a corresponding article on the men and women who successfully marry, have great marriages, and have a loving family together. These also exist. It can be done, but for those cited in this article it would probably require a fundamental change in world view. The main reason these men are failing in finding women is that they're fishing in the wrong ponds and using methods that do not work.
I read this piece and it makes me laugh at the indignant men who are now being treated by women as women have been treated by men since forever. This is all a sweeping generalization, of course, because smart men knew there was more to a good woman than some artificial vision as smart women know about men as well. And maybe I should replace "men" and "women" with "boys" and "girls", respectively, because it's more of a maturity issue than anything else. In high school and college, us guys had all sorts of critiques and petty issues with girls, and then some of us got girlfriends and it was very different.
Join a club, a church, synagogue or mosque. Volunteer for a worthy organization. Get involved doing good for others and you will be with like minded people. Friendships will be formed, your world will expand, and your circle of friends will expand along with the likelihood of meeting someone special—all while making the world a better place.
Wow. times have changed. It used to be that your friend and family, "had the girl for you". Some people are so shallow these days. I met my now wife of 52 years through a mutual friend. We both wanted the same things, a home, love, children. Don't know why it is so difficult nowadays. We've worked side by side to achieve our goals, and we succeeded. Now we get to enjoy grandchildren.
It is so difficult today for three related reasons. (Obviously there are exceptions, but broadly speaking the following holds):
1. Women today spend their sexual market peak years chasing 'fun experiences' with guys at the peak of the sexual market place. Rich guys and physically attractive guys (e.g. the three 6s). But, there are far fewer of these guys than there are beautiful 23 year olds. Because social media (more on that in #3) has opened up the world of options, you have a situation where 10% of the guys are getting 80% of the women's attention. And women are fine with sharing the 10%ers. So most women get to have their fun experiences, and a lot of men get shut out of the sexual market altogether during these key years that used to be spent as, idk, newlyweds and young parents. But for a small segment of men? Life's never been better.
2. Then, when women decide they want to settle down or find a husband they have totally screwed themselves (figuratively and literally) because when that day rolls around they are (i) no longer at the peak of their sexual market value but (ii) won't settle for anything less than the type of guy they had all their 'fun experiences' with. Of course, what's in it for that guy? He's swimming in women who are at their absolute peak. He's going to settle down for some 30 year old (or older) who has been run through by everyone when he can just, idk, continue to run through beautiful 20 somethings himself? LOLOLOLOL. But if these women who want to settle down look for a guy who is more at their present level, well, he's never going to match up to the ideal that she's created in her mind (and felt between her legs for all her 20s). So that's not going to work, either.
3. Social media is the accelerant for this. 52 years ago what was the realistic universe of potential dates for your and your wife? Whatever it was, it wasn't like today where a moderately attractive woman in a decent sized city can put herself out there on instagram or a dating app and have hundreds of guys thirsting over her immediately. It screws up women's minds, expectations, etc.
I am a 60 year old woman who married for the first time one year ago. It was a long wait to find the right person but I am blessed to have him. My scenario probably sounds discouraging, marrying at 59. Okay but I guess what I'd like to say to young men is don't give up. I have three degrees and my husband got his GED at 27. He's not tall and I've had better paying jobs than he. But he is a good man and loves me and he's kind and makes me laugh. All that superficial stuff like height, money and penis size is just not what makes for a happy marriage. I can only hope (and encourage if given the chance!) that today's young women smarten up. And young men - meet women through hobbies, friends, joining a sports team or heck, asking your mothers for names of friends with eligible daughters. Best wishes. Really.
I guess it all comes down to what you think you want in a relationship, and what you believe offers the best chances of achieving that. Having been married now to my only wife for almost thirty years, I've found that, inevitably, looks fade, money either gets tight or gets in the way, and the need for intimacy evolves. And so what keeps a relationship going is something other than the triple-six the article suggests so many women today are chasing, things which so many of their predecessors knew weren't as important.
My husband and I have recently moved closer to family in southern NJ...one that includes 2 nephews who are 30-somethings. They are both married and each has 3 children. They are pretty open to sharing chores with their wives, and that includes childcare. They are up close and personal with their children. Their wives work so things likely get complicated. I'm not sure what men you are seeing, but these two and just about all of their friends are very married, very happy and very engaged with family matters. Does the sexual revolution affect them? It likely did when they were single. But for "marrying" they chose two women with traditional values. About 10 years ago, we were on vacation and in a trendy bar where the clientele was mostly 20's and 30's. A young soon-to-be bride was traipsing through the bar area wearing a bridal veil followed by several members of the bridal party -- trolling for drinks. By the end of the night, the bride and maid of honor were up on the stage with the band tongue-kissing each other. I can tell you, that wouldn't fly with the young men my nephews socialize with.
Dating is scary. Rejection hurts. For men and women. Part of being a grown up is having the confidence to take the risk. Or fake it ‘til you make it. It only takes one buyer to make the sale.
What a mess! I've got nothing helpful to say, but why is the average date so expensive? Where did that number come from? I have trouble believing it. Why not just go on a hike? Even dinner in a restaurant shouldn't cost half that!
I could write so much about this, as an older therapist who treats lots of men in their 20's and 30's, as a father of 3 men in their 30's, only one of them married, and as a man married for 37 years or so.
A few bullet points in no particular order of value:
- Social skills among the younger are lacking. Lack of common courtesy and unwillingness to connect in analog ways until they have wrung too much out of technology. In other words, apps can be a good broad screen, but get on the phone with the person you match with. Hear his or her voice, perhaps do a video call. But not days of texts for goodness sake. If you think there is a connection, meet for a beer after work, or a coffee during the day. No costly and time eating dates absent a connection.
- Move on if there is a lack of congruence of values or attractiveness. I can't tell you how many times I have had patients who waste precious months or years with partners that they know in their hears are not a good fit. Especially for those in their 30's who want permanence, don't have a second or third date with a person you see little future in.
- Sexual/physical attraction matters. If it ain't there and you have no major barriers to finding it, move on. Do him or her a favor. This is as important as any other qualifier. One can learn so much about one's partner by the sort of lover they are or are not. Pay attention.
- Ladies especially, don't ghost people. Be decent and kind but tell the person wanting more from you that it is not a good fit, rather than ignoring them.
- It is a numbers game. Like a job hunt. Don't just put out one feeler and wait to see where it goes. Put out a number of them and get out and meet people. But be kind.
- Learn to be alone. There are great books to read. Better a nice night by oneself than a futile evening out now and then.
- Keep working on yourself. Be physically fit and intellectually alive.
- What you see is what you get. If you don't like it, move on. Do not get with a person who has an attribute or habit that you want to see change. If they are heavy and you want normal weight, expecting them to lose weight for you is foolish. If one wants a lot more or less sex than the other, don't expect change. If they drink too much, they won't get sober for you and so on.
- Women and men, consider and be open to new models of women marrying "down" economically or educationally. Men, consider being the one to stay home and care for kids while the woman is earning the big check. The math of how woman are outnumbering men in many professions and universities compels all to consider this or there will be a surplus of woman and men single not by choice.
- A shameless plug: Come to know yourself better, consider good therapy. It transformed my life decades ago.
- Seek integrity, kindness, self-knowledge and insight in oneself and others.
- As a society, lose the term toxic masculinity, or use the corollary of toxic femininity, which we all know when we see it, the vamping shallow gal who uses sexuality as a lever, who claims to be a feminist but wants her way paid for, who treats men with disrespect and contempt. I'm not sure what percent of women they represent, but I think they are similar in number to the male counterpart we love to diss. Whether man or woman, if they are toxic in how they treat others, move on quickly.
- The only person who knows you had a bad date last week is you. Assume that anyone open to meeting you is wanting something they don't currently have and there is a reason they are in the dating market. Just like a prospective employer knows that the candidates they are seeing have a reason they are looking for work, or open to interview. The question should be what can this person do for you and what can you do for them, not why are they single? Though it certainly is wise to do some research on the person's history. Check their social media or more if any yellow flags appear.
- On the topic of social media, and I may be showing my age here, keep some things to yourself. I have been to some beautiful places, had some wonderful meals and met some fine people. But I don't post pictures of them on Facebook and do not have an Instagram page. Less may be more. Bragging and showing off is unseemly and undignified.
I could go on and am likely blanking on some important points, but thats it for now.
I didn't even finish this article. Bari Weiss and TFP, what is up with all the articles lately disparaging allegedly shallow, predatory and superficial single women? When will we get equal time? When will we get something about MALE golddiggers and catfishers who target and prey on vulnerable widows and other women on dating sites?
This female author states that she "posed" as a 30-year-old hip business owner on a dating site; I assume that she posed as a guy, this is not made clear and it seems poor editing was involved.
I was on dating sites in my 30s and 40s. For every sob-story one of these guys has (and I don't question that they're nice guys), I could share one. I could tell you about all the shallow, dishonest, and superficial men who are on them. These guys whine that women are too picky, oblivious that THEY are often picky and unrealistic themselves in their expectations. I wonder if any of these guys considered a woman over 30 or 35. Or one who wasn't a perfect size 6, etc. etc.
Granted, I encountered some decent guys, but most seemed over-fixated on a woman's looks and age. Even the ones who were very average themselves, looks-wise and every which way. I'd see profiles of middle-aged men whose "desired age range" for a woman was a decade-plus younger than them. I even saw profiles where men listed things like desired measurements and weight. Some of the "requirements" I saw were laughable. Among other things they won't consider a woman who has a kid. Or even a pet. And don't get me started on the married men posing as single.
What the author, and the men profiled, should have done was try to "pose" as a woman on the site and see what happens. Preferably a woman over 35, who may even be attractive but doesn't look like a model. Wait for the responses you DON'T get. Wait for the responses from 60-plus-old men practically old enough to be your father. Wait for your messages to go unanswered and prepare to be ghosted after one email/phonecall/date. Please, if anyone has the "upper hand" on these sites and apps, it's men. And it case you think it's a specific issue with me, plenty of other women have vouched for it.
Prime sexual market value years??? Thank you, incel. And what are men's
"prime sexual market value years"? The article is about men who complain women are too picky. My comment pointed out that men are also unreasonably picky, which you completely validated since you think women are a piece of meat that spoils.
If you're a pudgy, balding, nothing-special 35- or 40-year-old man, and you expect to attract a 25-year-old and then whine women are too picky, I don't have sympathy for you. Too many men have a wildly exaggerated idea of their own worth and attractiveness to women. You're likely one.
Women are born with all their value; so, they gain no value from going to college and getting an education and cultivating their MINDS??? Tell your inflatable doll I said Hi.
When did they start letting Neanderthals subscribe to TFP?
You're probably one of those males who looks exactly like George Costanza but believes he looks like George Clooney. I've encountered quite a few of those. Men are being unrealistically picky if they're short, pudgy and balding and expect to snatch a "hot" woman whose looks are totally out of proportion to theirs. But these types of men abound on dating sites. Then they complain women are too picky. If you're a very average-looking, average-earning 40-plus-year-old, yes you are being unreasonable if you reject anyone over 29.
You know absolutely nothing about me, yet you are jumping to all these wild conclusions about me. I actually met great guys on dating sites when I was in my 30s and 40s. My comments were not pertaining to them. A good friend of mine (who possesses an MBA) met her husband on one when she was 35(!) years old. Her husband is actually a couple years younger than her. I'll give you a minute to reach for your smelling salts, Stephen.
You have a serious problem with women. I'm curious about YOUR personal situation, how old you are and if you're married to a gorgeous, easy going cook who's terrific in bed. You sound like you belong somewhere in the Mad Men era or earlier, or like a male character straight out of Stepford Wives. I pray you don't have a daughter and if you do, I pity her for the life advice she would get from you.
And it might come as a shock to you but secure, evolved men DO boast about dating an accomplished and educated woman. Yes looks are a factor, but most men find that after a few dates with a Barbie doll idiot, they want someone they can have an intelligent conversation with. You act like I'm generalizing about ALL men in the universe, when the topic is men on dating sites and apps. It's hilarious but your attitudes actually confirm everything I say in my comment, as to why these men in the story can't find a mate.
Dude you spend an inordinate amount of time and energy speculating and obsessing about my life in particular and women in their 30s and 40s in general. Why do you even care? You are obviously someone who's been routinely rejected by women on these dating sites (I wonder why?) and you're lashing out. And I'm not the one who comes across as angry and hysterical, look at your original reply to me. Plenty of women find their soul mates and spouses in their 30s and even 40s, and sometimes even later. Did it occur to you that a woman is single in her thirties not by choice or because of "pickiness" in her 20s, but because she didn't have the opportunity to marry for whatever reason, or was in a long-term relationship with someone who was not ready to get married? Then there are financial reasons why people, men and women, don't or can't marry (student loans etc.). There are people who are content being single and have fulfilling lives and don't want to ever marry. Frankly, it's none of your business either way.
You come out with some seriously weird shit. I don't know how to "compliment" a man's life??? The kind of woman a man wants and "deserves"??? The term "throwback" doesn't even begin to describe you.
But since you engage in wild, uninformed speculation about my past (really you have this unnaturally weird obsession with me, Stephen), let me engage in some speculation about you. I notice that you never confirm one way or the other whether you're married with a family. (I also never told you that I wasn't currently married or in a LT relationship; you are totally extrapolating that.) I strongly suspect that you are one of those single 40- or 50-year-old guys who plays fantasy football and video games. You're likely obsessed with either Lord of the Rings, Star Trek, or Star Wars, or all three. Maybe you still live with Mom? You're an incel. You get rejected on dating apps so now you have a deeply ingrained misogyny and lash out at women you don't know online. You sound like a real catch.
If you want to see the expectation set for women just watch one of the modern day Christmas movies on the Hallmark channel. He’s rich or royalty or both and she doesn’t know it. He’s looking for the perfect woman to settle down and have a family with. He’s perfectly loyal, loving, kind and generous (and of course 6,6,6).
Expectations for men can be found on porn sites on the internet. Perfect bodies willing to do any sex act their man wants any time he wants with enthusiasm.
Relationships that last are always about compromise. And if you truly love the person the compromises aren’t important. Filtering out all the compromises ahead of time is a recipe for disaster.
Date people that are different than you and take time to get to know them. Don’t jump into bed right away as it affects your judgement.
Women drop out of these dating sites as well for very similar reasons. I have been on a few dating sites in the past and experienced the same as a woman with the men looking for a TALL MODEL LIKE BEAUTIFUL VERY SLENDER WOMAN. AND MANY MEN FOCUS ON AGE AS WELL. Most of the men I came across wouldn't give me a second glance because I was not "young enough". So it goes both ways. Needless to say I have not been back on a dating site in many years and sadly it's very difficult to meet men and establish a relationship without one nowadays. 💞
Thank you Theresa, these unreasonable expectations work both ways, see my post above. It always amazed me how the most average-looking, nothing-special men had these wildly unrealistic expectations for the kind of woman they could attract. I myself have been off those sites for five years and am in no hurry to go back. Sometimes I think being single is better than diving into all that again.
Interesting article. While men are suffering from the unrealistic expectations, women are as well. Many are wondering where are all the men? One day people will realize that apps are not your friend and they aren’t helping.
If you want to meet human beings you need to get off your phone. Travel, work out, do the things you love and you will find people that are doing the same.
They want you alone, isolated, sad, lonely and depressed. They want you hooked to their devices and apps. That’s how they make money. The happiest people aren’t on the apps. They’re out there living life!
I always laugh when I read how people feel so amazing when they are unplugged, living a simple life when they are backpacking or hiking in the mountains. How they always miss the simple life or the genuine connections they make with other people they meet. There’s a reason for that!
Humans are social animals. Apps do everything to strip us of our social experience.
Perhaps Olivia could write a corresponding article on the men and women who successfully marry, have great marriages, and have a loving family together. These also exist. It can be done, but for those cited in this article it would probably require a fundamental change in world view. The main reason these men are failing in finding women is that they're fishing in the wrong ponds and using methods that do not work.
Constantly available internet access on our phones has overinflated the female ego and turned men into pussies. That's unfortunate.
I read this piece and it makes me laugh at the indignant men who are now being treated by women as women have been treated by men since forever. This is all a sweeping generalization, of course, because smart men knew there was more to a good woman than some artificial vision as smart women know about men as well. And maybe I should replace "men" and "women" with "boys" and "girls", respectively, because it's more of a maturity issue than anything else. In high school and college, us guys had all sorts of critiques and petty issues with girls, and then some of us got girlfriends and it was very different.
Join a club, a church, synagogue or mosque. Volunteer for a worthy organization. Get involved doing good for others and you will be with like minded people. Friendships will be formed, your world will expand, and your circle of friends will expand along with the likelihood of meeting someone special—all while making the world a better place.
Wow. times have changed. It used to be that your friend and family, "had the girl for you". Some people are so shallow these days. I met my now wife of 52 years through a mutual friend. We both wanted the same things, a home, love, children. Don't know why it is so difficult nowadays. We've worked side by side to achieve our goals, and we succeeded. Now we get to enjoy grandchildren.
It is so difficult today for three related reasons. (Obviously there are exceptions, but broadly speaking the following holds):
1. Women today spend their sexual market peak years chasing 'fun experiences' with guys at the peak of the sexual market place. Rich guys and physically attractive guys (e.g. the three 6s). But, there are far fewer of these guys than there are beautiful 23 year olds. Because social media (more on that in #3) has opened up the world of options, you have a situation where 10% of the guys are getting 80% of the women's attention. And women are fine with sharing the 10%ers. So most women get to have their fun experiences, and a lot of men get shut out of the sexual market altogether during these key years that used to be spent as, idk, newlyweds and young parents. But for a small segment of men? Life's never been better.
2. Then, when women decide they want to settle down or find a husband they have totally screwed themselves (figuratively and literally) because when that day rolls around they are (i) no longer at the peak of their sexual market value but (ii) won't settle for anything less than the type of guy they had all their 'fun experiences' with. Of course, what's in it for that guy? He's swimming in women who are at their absolute peak. He's going to settle down for some 30 year old (or older) who has been run through by everyone when he can just, idk, continue to run through beautiful 20 somethings himself? LOLOLOLOL. But if these women who want to settle down look for a guy who is more at their present level, well, he's never going to match up to the ideal that she's created in her mind (and felt between her legs for all her 20s). So that's not going to work, either.
3. Social media is the accelerant for this. 52 years ago what was the realistic universe of potential dates for your and your wife? Whatever it was, it wasn't like today where a moderately attractive woman in a decent sized city can put herself out there on instagram or a dating app and have hundreds of guys thirsting over her immediately. It screws up women's minds, expectations, etc.
I am a 60 year old woman who married for the first time one year ago. It was a long wait to find the right person but I am blessed to have him. My scenario probably sounds discouraging, marrying at 59. Okay but I guess what I'd like to say to young men is don't give up. I have three degrees and my husband got his GED at 27. He's not tall and I've had better paying jobs than he. But he is a good man and loves me and he's kind and makes me laugh. All that superficial stuff like height, money and penis size is just not what makes for a happy marriage. I can only hope (and encourage if given the chance!) that today's young women smarten up. And young men - meet women through hobbies, friends, joining a sports team or heck, asking your mothers for names of friends with eligible daughters. Best wishes. Really.
I guess it all comes down to what you think you want in a relationship, and what you believe offers the best chances of achieving that. Having been married now to my only wife for almost thirty years, I've found that, inevitably, looks fade, money either gets tight or gets in the way, and the need for intimacy evolves. And so what keeps a relationship going is something other than the triple-six the article suggests so many women today are chasing, things which so many of their predecessors knew weren't as important.
My husband and I have recently moved closer to family in southern NJ...one that includes 2 nephews who are 30-somethings. They are both married and each has 3 children. They are pretty open to sharing chores with their wives, and that includes childcare. They are up close and personal with their children. Their wives work so things likely get complicated. I'm not sure what men you are seeing, but these two and just about all of their friends are very married, very happy and very engaged with family matters. Does the sexual revolution affect them? It likely did when they were single. But for "marrying" they chose two women with traditional values. About 10 years ago, we were on vacation and in a trendy bar where the clientele was mostly 20's and 30's. A young soon-to-be bride was traipsing through the bar area wearing a bridal veil followed by several members of the bridal party -- trolling for drinks. By the end of the night, the bride and maid of honor were up on the stage with the band tongue-kissing each other. I can tell you, that wouldn't fly with the young men my nephews socialize with.
I’m glad to hear it. Young people have enough challenges, with out having to deal with bad dating outcomes
Dating is scary. Rejection hurts. For men and women. Part of being a grown up is having the confidence to take the risk. Or fake it ‘til you make it. It only takes one buyer to make the sale.
What a mess! I've got nothing helpful to say, but why is the average date so expensive? Where did that number come from? I have trouble believing it. Why not just go on a hike? Even dinner in a restaurant shouldn't cost half that!
I could write so much about this, as an older therapist who treats lots of men in their 20's and 30's, as a father of 3 men in their 30's, only one of them married, and as a man married for 37 years or so.
A few bullet points in no particular order of value:
- Social skills among the younger are lacking. Lack of common courtesy and unwillingness to connect in analog ways until they have wrung too much out of technology. In other words, apps can be a good broad screen, but get on the phone with the person you match with. Hear his or her voice, perhaps do a video call. But not days of texts for goodness sake. If you think there is a connection, meet for a beer after work, or a coffee during the day. No costly and time eating dates absent a connection.
- Move on if there is a lack of congruence of values or attractiveness. I can't tell you how many times I have had patients who waste precious months or years with partners that they know in their hears are not a good fit. Especially for those in their 30's who want permanence, don't have a second or third date with a person you see little future in.
- Sexual/physical attraction matters. If it ain't there and you have no major barriers to finding it, move on. Do him or her a favor. This is as important as any other qualifier. One can learn so much about one's partner by the sort of lover they are or are not. Pay attention.
- Ladies especially, don't ghost people. Be decent and kind but tell the person wanting more from you that it is not a good fit, rather than ignoring them.
- It is a numbers game. Like a job hunt. Don't just put out one feeler and wait to see where it goes. Put out a number of them and get out and meet people. But be kind.
- Learn to be alone. There are great books to read. Better a nice night by oneself than a futile evening out now and then.
- Keep working on yourself. Be physically fit and intellectually alive.
- What you see is what you get. If you don't like it, move on. Do not get with a person who has an attribute or habit that you want to see change. If they are heavy and you want normal weight, expecting them to lose weight for you is foolish. If one wants a lot more or less sex than the other, don't expect change. If they drink too much, they won't get sober for you and so on.
- Women and men, consider and be open to new models of women marrying "down" economically or educationally. Men, consider being the one to stay home and care for kids while the woman is earning the big check. The math of how woman are outnumbering men in many professions and universities compels all to consider this or there will be a surplus of woman and men single not by choice.
- A shameless plug: Come to know yourself better, consider good therapy. It transformed my life decades ago.
- Seek integrity, kindness, self-knowledge and insight in oneself and others.
- As a society, lose the term toxic masculinity, or use the corollary of toxic femininity, which we all know when we see it, the vamping shallow gal who uses sexuality as a lever, who claims to be a feminist but wants her way paid for, who treats men with disrespect and contempt. I'm not sure what percent of women they represent, but I think they are similar in number to the male counterpart we love to diss. Whether man or woman, if they are toxic in how they treat others, move on quickly.
- The only person who knows you had a bad date last week is you. Assume that anyone open to meeting you is wanting something they don't currently have and there is a reason they are in the dating market. Just like a prospective employer knows that the candidates they are seeing have a reason they are looking for work, or open to interview. The question should be what can this person do for you and what can you do for them, not why are they single? Though it certainly is wise to do some research on the person's history. Check their social media or more if any yellow flags appear.
- On the topic of social media, and I may be showing my age here, keep some things to yourself. I have been to some beautiful places, had some wonderful meals and met some fine people. But I don't post pictures of them on Facebook and do not have an Instagram page. Less may be more. Bragging and showing off is unseemly and undignified.
I could go on and am likely blanking on some important points, but thats it for now.
I didn't even finish this article. Bari Weiss and TFP, what is up with all the articles lately disparaging allegedly shallow, predatory and superficial single women? When will we get equal time? When will we get something about MALE golddiggers and catfishers who target and prey on vulnerable widows and other women on dating sites?
This female author states that she "posed" as a 30-year-old hip business owner on a dating site; I assume that she posed as a guy, this is not made clear and it seems poor editing was involved.
I was on dating sites in my 30s and 40s. For every sob-story one of these guys has (and I don't question that they're nice guys), I could share one. I could tell you about all the shallow, dishonest, and superficial men who are on them. These guys whine that women are too picky, oblivious that THEY are often picky and unrealistic themselves in their expectations. I wonder if any of these guys considered a woman over 30 or 35. Or one who wasn't a perfect size 6, etc. etc.
Granted, I encountered some decent guys, but most seemed over-fixated on a woman's looks and age. Even the ones who were very average themselves, looks-wise and every which way. I'd see profiles of middle-aged men whose "desired age range" for a woman was a decade-plus younger than them. I even saw profiles where men listed things like desired measurements and weight. Some of the "requirements" I saw were laughable. Among other things they won't consider a woman who has a kid. Or even a pet. And don't get me started on the married men posing as single.
What the author, and the men profiled, should have done was try to "pose" as a woman on the site and see what happens. Preferably a woman over 35, who may even be attractive but doesn't look like a model. Wait for the responses you DON'T get. Wait for the responses from 60-plus-old men practically old enough to be your father. Wait for your messages to go unanswered and prepare to be ghosted after one email/phonecall/date. Please, if anyone has the "upper hand" on these sites and apps, it's men. And it case you think it's a specific issue with me, plenty of other women have vouched for it.
Well-stated. So agree and have had my share of similar experiences.
Prime sexual market value years??? Thank you, incel. And what are men's
"prime sexual market value years"? The article is about men who complain women are too picky. My comment pointed out that men are also unreasonably picky, which you completely validated since you think women are a piece of meat that spoils.
If you're a pudgy, balding, nothing-special 35- or 40-year-old man, and you expect to attract a 25-year-old and then whine women are too picky, I don't have sympathy for you. Too many men have a wildly exaggerated idea of their own worth and attractiveness to women. You're likely one.
Women are born with all their value; so, they gain no value from going to college and getting an education and cultivating their MINDS??? Tell your inflatable doll I said Hi.
When did they start letting Neanderthals subscribe to TFP?
Harridan? Fuck off, knuckle-dragger.
You're probably one of those males who looks exactly like George Costanza but believes he looks like George Clooney. I've encountered quite a few of those. Men are being unrealistically picky if they're short, pudgy and balding and expect to snatch a "hot" woman whose looks are totally out of proportion to theirs. But these types of men abound on dating sites. Then they complain women are too picky. If you're a very average-looking, average-earning 40-plus-year-old, yes you are being unreasonable if you reject anyone over 29.
You know absolutely nothing about me, yet you are jumping to all these wild conclusions about me. I actually met great guys on dating sites when I was in my 30s and 40s. My comments were not pertaining to them. A good friend of mine (who possesses an MBA) met her husband on one when she was 35(!) years old. Her husband is actually a couple years younger than her. I'll give you a minute to reach for your smelling salts, Stephen.
You have a serious problem with women. I'm curious about YOUR personal situation, how old you are and if you're married to a gorgeous, easy going cook who's terrific in bed. You sound like you belong somewhere in the Mad Men era or earlier, or like a male character straight out of Stepford Wives. I pray you don't have a daughter and if you do, I pity her for the life advice she would get from you.
And it might come as a shock to you but secure, evolved men DO boast about dating an accomplished and educated woman. Yes looks are a factor, but most men find that after a few dates with a Barbie doll idiot, they want someone they can have an intelligent conversation with. You act like I'm generalizing about ALL men in the universe, when the topic is men on dating sites and apps. It's hilarious but your attitudes actually confirm everything I say in my comment, as to why these men in the story can't find a mate.
Dude you spend an inordinate amount of time and energy speculating and obsessing about my life in particular and women in their 30s and 40s in general. Why do you even care? You are obviously someone who's been routinely rejected by women on these dating sites (I wonder why?) and you're lashing out. And I'm not the one who comes across as angry and hysterical, look at your original reply to me. Plenty of women find their soul mates and spouses in their 30s and even 40s, and sometimes even later. Did it occur to you that a woman is single in her thirties not by choice or because of "pickiness" in her 20s, but because she didn't have the opportunity to marry for whatever reason, or was in a long-term relationship with someone who was not ready to get married? Then there are financial reasons why people, men and women, don't or can't marry (student loans etc.). There are people who are content being single and have fulfilling lives and don't want to ever marry. Frankly, it's none of your business either way.
You come out with some seriously weird shit. I don't know how to "compliment" a man's life??? The kind of woman a man wants and "deserves"??? The term "throwback" doesn't even begin to describe you.
But since you engage in wild, uninformed speculation about my past (really you have this unnaturally weird obsession with me, Stephen), let me engage in some speculation about you. I notice that you never confirm one way or the other whether you're married with a family. (I also never told you that I wasn't currently married or in a LT relationship; you are totally extrapolating that.) I strongly suspect that you are one of those single 40- or 50-year-old guys who plays fantasy football and video games. You're likely obsessed with either Lord of the Rings, Star Trek, or Star Wars, or all three. Maybe you still live with Mom? You're an incel. You get rejected on dating apps so now you have a deeply ingrained misogyny and lash out at women you don't know online. You sound like a real catch.
Young people have been fed lies their whole life.
If you want to see the expectation set for women just watch one of the modern day Christmas movies on the Hallmark channel. He’s rich or royalty or both and she doesn’t know it. He’s looking for the perfect woman to settle down and have a family with. He’s perfectly loyal, loving, kind and generous (and of course 6,6,6).
Expectations for men can be found on porn sites on the internet. Perfect bodies willing to do any sex act their man wants any time he wants with enthusiasm.
Relationships that last are always about compromise. And if you truly love the person the compromises aren’t important. Filtering out all the compromises ahead of time is a recipe for disaster.
Date people that are different than you and take time to get to know them. Don’t jump into bed right away as it affects your judgement.
Women drop out of these dating sites as well for very similar reasons. I have been on a few dating sites in the past and experienced the same as a woman with the men looking for a TALL MODEL LIKE BEAUTIFUL VERY SLENDER WOMAN. AND MANY MEN FOCUS ON AGE AS WELL. Most of the men I came across wouldn't give me a second glance because I was not "young enough". So it goes both ways. Needless to say I have not been back on a dating site in many years and sadly it's very difficult to meet men and establish a relationship without one nowadays. 💞
Thank you Theresa, these unreasonable expectations work both ways, see my post above. It always amazed me how the most average-looking, nothing-special men had these wildly unrealistic expectations for the kind of woman they could attract. I myself have been off those sites for five years and am in no hurry to go back. Sometimes I think being single is better than diving into all that again.
Interesting article. While men are suffering from the unrealistic expectations, women are as well. Many are wondering where are all the men? One day people will realize that apps are not your friend and they aren’t helping.
If you want to meet human beings you need to get off your phone. Travel, work out, do the things you love and you will find people that are doing the same.
They want you alone, isolated, sad, lonely and depressed. They want you hooked to their devices and apps. That’s how they make money. The happiest people aren’t on the apps. They’re out there living life!
I always laugh when I read how people feel so amazing when they are unplugged, living a simple life when they are backpacking or hiking in the mountains. How they always miss the simple life or the genuine connections they make with other people they meet. There’s a reason for that!
Humans are social animals. Apps do everything to strip us of our social experience.