The 1965 Immigration act made Japanese-Americans successful in 1966. The 3180 (mostly women) Japanese who entered the US in 1965 were completely transformative and quickly. Getting reparations after 1988 made Japanese-Americans successful in 1966, obviously. Japanese-Americans in California were sent to military bases, such as camp Manzanar ('Comprof2.0' told me that Manzanar was a military base). Japanese-Americans men of military age who were sent to the camps were ineligible for the GI Bill which is why they (the Japanese-Americans in California) were so poor in 1966, obviously.
By contrast, California was founded as a slave state and maintained slavery until (and after) 1966. As slaves in California, black people were not 'left alone', were not paid, and could not vote, obviously.
The truth is obvious if you are woke enough. Why can't I be as woke as you? You haven't answered my question about how many lobotomies I will need to be as smart and woke as you.
What upsets me more than anything else in the world is the editing of the books of dead authors. This is a current trend which demonstrates perfectly how the wrong people are in charge today. These people are stupid, ill-educated, and very very dangerous.
I was the Student Vice President of Weinstein dorm when Rick Rubin lived there. I want to add some illuminating context to that free and transformative moment in time. Ricks dorm room like all of ours was small. But his dorm room was also inhabited by mountains of recording equipment so you could barely walk in. When you did squeeze in it was almost impossible to know if Rick was there or not hidden amongst all the equipment.
At this moment in time there was no cell phones, no social media, no parental involvement unless someone picked up the constantly ringing hallway landline which no one ever did. We were all free to rebel in the most nonjudgmental beautiful way. Washington Square park was an urban carnival which anchored NYU’s campus. St. Marks Place and the lower east side had affordable run down apartments filled with artists, dreamers and experimenters. ( years later we were horrified to learn a Gap store opened on St Marks Place) At the time MTV had just started and we would all gather around the giant box of a TV in the lobby of the Weinstein dorm to watch the newest music video release. Several of the dorm’s front desk staff also moonlighted as MTV VJs.
As the president of the dorm we had a budget to throw parties in the basement of the dorm. The drinking age in NY was still 18 so we were free to stock the parties with beer and hard liquor. Rick was in charge of the music so in this cinderblock space he grandly exalted the party by bringing his artists. As a white girl in the burbs of Philly, by high school, the doors of hip hop were newly cracked open by artists like Grand Master Flash and NWA. But now in the basement in Weinstein dorm Rick brought his “friends”( aka his artists since unbenounced to us he was already in business) like the Beasty Boys and LLCool J. Needless to say the party was a sublime moment in time. We had no idea that Rick and these artists would become legendary but we intuitively knew we were experiencing something transformative. This was the precipice of what Rick was driving forward, a populace uprising, and would ultimately enter the mainstream before anyone knew it was possible. For us we just felt it in our bones as the party blasted all around us.
A funny story Rick may not remember, but once he asked me to pick him up a pack of razors when I went to the store to buy party supplies with the dorm party budget. When I returned from the store and squeezed into Ricks dorm room to locate him and deliver the razors, I told him it probably wasn’t a good idea to buy personal stuff on the dorm budget since the president watched every penny. Even back then Rick just took this in by deeply listening and after a few silent minutes he nodded his head.
I am not sure if it was that moment Rick gave up shaving but I swear I never saw Rick clean shaven again. I ultimately ( unlike Rick) took my LSAT and became a lawyer but I am VERY glad Rick didn’t. : )
"Yale’s Nakanishi Prize is awarded every spring to “two graduating seniors who, while maintaining high academic achievement, have provided exemplary leadership in enhancing race and/or ethnic relations at Yale College.” Normally, the bestowal of an undergraduate award, even at an august institution like Yale, is of interest to no one beyond the recipients, their classmates, and their families. This year’s prize, however, should trouble anyone concerned with the imperiled fate of free inquiry and rational dialogue at our nation’s institutions of higher learning: on May 21, Yale recognized—out of a graduating class of some 1,300—two individuals who did more than most of their peers to worsen race relations on campus.
Our story begins in the fall of 2015, when a mob of students surrounded professor Nicholas Christakis in the courtyard of Silliman, the residential college of which he used to be Master, a term used to describe head faculty members who oversee undergraduate life (more on this later). Christakis, a world-renowned sociologist and scientist, was there to answer complaints about an email sent by his wife, Erika, in response to a campus-wide message distributed by a Yale College dean of “student engagement,” Burgwell Howard, warning students away from wearing Halloween costumes that “threaten our sense of community.” For her mere suggestion that Yale undergraduates—adults who can legally vote and fight and die in the nation’s wars—be entrusted with the responsibility to choose their own Halloween costumes (and, furthermore, be entrusted to share whatever discomfort they may have about potentially “offensive” costumes with their peers, rather than encouraged to whine to overpaid, utterly superfluous, administrative busybodies), Erika Christakis was denounced by hundreds of Yale students, faculty, alumni, and countless off-campus agitators as an incorrigible bigot and “white supremacist” whose job should be taken from her.
But Nicholas Christakis was doing more than just defending the honor of his wife that afternoon in the Silliman courtyard. As video of the several hours-long ordeal revealed, Christakis was defending the most fundamental principle of higher education: that the university should serve as a place of free inquiry where individuals can respectfully engage with one another in the pursuit of knowledge.
At least, that’s what places like Yale claim to stand for. Not anymore.
Of the 100 or so students who confronted Christakis that day, a young woman who called him “disgusting” and shouted “who the fuck hired you?” before storming off in tears became the most infamous, thanks to an 81-second YouTube clip that went viral. (The video also—thanks to its promotion by various right-wing websites—brought this student a torrent of anonymous harassment). The videos that Tablet exclusively posted last year, which showed a further 25 minutes of what was ultimately an hours-long confrontation, depicted a procession of students berating Christakis. In one clip, a male student strides up to Christakis and, standing mere inches from his face, orders the professor to “look at me.” Assuming this position of physical intimidation, the student then proceeds to declare that Christakis is incapable of understanding what he and his classmates are feeling because Christakis is white, and, ipso facto, cannot be a victim of racism. In another clip, a female student accuses Christakis of “strip[ping] people of their humanity” and “creat[ing] a space for violence to happen,” a line later mocked in an episode of The Simpsons. In the videos, Howard, the dean who wrote the costume provisions, can be seen lurking along the periphery of the mob.
Of Yale’s graduating class, it was these two students whom the Nakanishi Prize selection committee deemed most deserving of a prize for “enhancing race and/or ethnic relations” on campus. Hectoring bullies quick to throw baseless accusations of racism or worse; cosseted brats unscrupulous in their determination to smear the reputations of good people, these individuals in actuality represent the antithesis of everything this award is intended to honor. Yet, in the citation that was read to all the graduating seniors and their families on Class Day, Yale praised the latter student as “a fierce truthteller.”
This, for a hysterical liar who accused one of the university’s most distinguished academic minds of inciting “violence” upon his own students. And the chair of the selection committee? Burgwell Howard.
The Orwellian veneration of racial agitators as racial conciliators is the logical conclusion of Yale’s craven capitulation to the hard left forces of identitarian groupthink. From the very beginning of this ordeal, the Yale administration refused to state some simple but necessary truths: that the missive Erika Christakis wrote was entirely appropriate; that the “demands” issued by protesting students (such as an “ethnic studies distributional requirement”) were ridiculous; and, most important of all, that the rude and insubordinate treatment to which Nicholas Christakis was subjected rose to the level of a disciplinary offense. (It was not so long ago that mobbing a professor, physically threatening him, and screaming in his face, for hours, would result in expulsion)."
Be careful, Bari -- you are in danger of falling into the trap of snobbery...
I also consider myself someone who "has good taste", and personally disdain many things as "hack" art -- plastic, fake, mass-produced, "dumbed-down"; just a complete waste of time...
In MY opinion. In MY world.
You and I and all my fellow Honestly listeners must take Rick Rubin's lesson here to heart:
We can always have a friendly debate about what art is "good" and what is "bad"; but I believe Rick is correctly interpreting -- and agreeing with completely -- Jimi Hendrix's famous statement that "There are only 2 kinds of music: good and bad".
Yes there are only these 2 categories of art -- for each of us, individually.
Great interview -- thanks for spending this time with Rick Rubin and sharing his wisdom and experience with the Substack community!
Your welcome John. In my experience most of the people who attack your views. Are incapable of defending their position. If you state it and you both agree to disagree is a good out come as neither side will feel defeated. I am from the Boomer generation and we generally respect each other’s views. , and leave it at that.
However if some one feels the need to berate me. I’m happy to put them in their place, it’s not particularly hard. Don’t be afraid to confront them in frount of their friends or in their workplace. This is particularly effective with keyboard cowards.
Thank you for your thoughtful post. You are correct, sometimes I need to fight back. I guess it depends on the relationship I have with the person I’m interacting with. It feels most natural for me to take the gentler approach and generally that’s my default response and it’s been successful for me as I’ve been told by people in my community that my voice has influence.
However, I do have experience in dropping the gloves so to speak - and I’m not afraid to punch back hard when necessary. I don’t believe I communicated that in my original post.
Thank you again for your thoughtful post and I will get my hockey stick and gloves out and be ready to brawl if need be. :-)
What is frightening to me is that since I’m a huge believer in the traditional family (I’m blessed with a girl and two boys, a wife (not “spouse”) - an active Catholic and involved in my community...... in many circles I am considered a radical right-wing person. I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS - it’s terrifying.
Much of the decay of our world is due to the fact that the values of family, faith and community and being attacked, devalued and mocked (sprinkle in a lot of social media).
The action I’m taking is to treat people who want to judge - rather than understand - me with respect and calmness. If someone attacks me for my beliefs and way I live I’ll just say calmly, “I’m sorry you feel this way,” then ask questions about what is it that’s so offensive and then ask them about their beliefs and thoughts. It won’t work all the time, but In the few times I’ve tried this, it seems to deflate the tension and lead to calm, respectful exchanging of thoughts. M
Believe me, my friends, I am angry and want to scream and say “what planet are you living on?” but that just accelerates the circle of anger and that makes me no better than them. This is not a spoiler alert but as Ted Lasso said in one of the episodes, “seek to understand first before we judge.”
I feel if our response is to challenge them firmly but with calmness and kindness (yes that’s hard) it will start to turn the ship around. We raise this entire issue to a higher level of discourse.
I’m interested in what y’all think? Has anyone else tried an approach similar to mine? I’m curious what you think, my friends!
You at least sound like you practice what you preach. Growing up gay in a conservative town, I heard nothing but how sinful I was--from people who were on their 3rd marriage in many cases, from people who everyone knew were having affairs, etc. For a very long time, I became a cynic and learned that those who piously preach morality at others are often covering and trying to hide their own transgressions.
Social Media, especially Twitter, is an utter waste of time. It's an anger factory where you have to take a side. If you show any nuance at all, you're lumped into the right-wing or left-wing bucket, or ignored altogether. Everyone is better off never logging into Twitter, Tik Tok, or any of the social media platforms.
Since turning 40, I've met many people similar to you who sound like they ARE living honest lives and involved with their community out of a desire to help so I've softened a bit in terms of being open to people who disagree with me, but after finally getting to marry my spouse (yes, I do like that word) after 20+ years together, I will fight to keep MY family intact as I'm sure you would do for your own.
For as long as I can remember, I have pretty much gone my own way. I am pretty much supportive of any one who is the same. People needing to recruit others to their own point of view, is all around us. They have stopped talking to me because I don’t want to be recruited to their cause, that’s their loss. And in my opinion at least pretty in mature.
It sounds as if you have reached some sort of accomodation with people around you. I’m glad for you as it can be tough being different. But at the same time it defines who you are.
Just like any friendships and acquaintanceships, you learn that there are some topics you just don't talk about because you'll never agree. I'm in a unique situation that I think is rare in the U.S. these days. My town is split almost evenly between R's and D's. Most people are middle of the road and we just don't talk politics. It also helps that the main concern is keeping the roads paved and clean, maintaining the parks, and having a good police and fire department. That doesn't leave a lot of time for grandstanding about transgender issues or building a wall with Mexico.
I applaud your approach to dealing with social bullies, yes that’s what they are. I can see you are a committed Christian man. However “turning the other cheek” is not always the best approach. You can walk away and disconnect your self from them. If they try to cancel your own Personel believes. A last resort is to take the fight back to them. I know this is hard. I credit two years at a Catholic boarding school, with toughening me up and learning how to defend my self verbally. These day any one who wants to socially attack me had better be well armed, because I will be when I retaliate. Look for ways to sharpen your debating skills and gain self confidence
Thank you for your thoughtful post. You are correct, sometimes I need to fight back. I guess it depends on the relationship I have with the person I’m interacting with. It feels most natural for me to take the gentler approach and generally that’s my default response and it’s been successful for me as I’ve been told by people in my community that my voice has influence.
However, I do have experience in dropping the gloves so to speak - and I’m not afraid to punch back hard when necessary. I don’t believe I communicated that in my original post.
Thank you again for your thoughtful post and I will get my hockey stick and gloves out and be ready to brawl if need be. :-)
This was a nice, relaxing listen to people I agree with. I found myself craving more vigorous engagement with the opposing viewpoints and more good faith in where others are coming from. I would love to have seen less time infantilising the college students and more time examining how intellectually honest people come to these flawed conclusions—beyond dismissing it all as mob mentality. (Although that dimension is not to be discounted.) Critique aside, thank you for the conversation; much enjoyed!
When reading Christakis' comments, I had just read this:
https://www.dailywire.com/news/id-do-it-again-mom-fired-from-her-job-after-speaking-at-school-board-meeting-remains-undeterred
The easy answer is no.
There is no Peal Harbor in Hawaii.
3,686 served in WW2? All from Hawaii?
But the actual number, Peter, is 33,000 that served during WW2 and were eligible for the GI Bill.
How is that possible if every military aged man was in an internment camp?
Can you also explain how 1965 actually comes before 1950?
Your "Hawaii math" adds up to 3,686 Japanese-Americans who served in WW2.
But the actual number is 33,000. Where did you get 3,786 from?
The 1965 Immigration act made Japanese-Americans successful in 1966. The 3180 (mostly women) Japanese who entered the US in 1965 were completely transformative and quickly. Getting reparations after 1988 made Japanese-Americans successful in 1966, obviously. Japanese-Americans in California were sent to military bases, such as camp Manzanar ('Comprof2.0' told me that Manzanar was a military base). Japanese-Americans men of military age who were sent to the camps were ineligible for the GI Bill which is why they (the Japanese-Americans in California) were so poor in 1966, obviously.
By contrast, California was founded as a slave state and maintained slavery until (and after) 1966. As slaves in California, black people were not 'left alone', were not paid, and could not vote, obviously.
The truth is obvious if you are woke enough. Why can't I be as woke as you? You haven't answered my question about how many lobotomies I will need to be as smart and woke as you.
What upsets me more than anything else in the world is the editing of the books of dead authors. This is a current trend which demonstrates perfectly how the wrong people are in charge today. These people are stupid, ill-educated, and very very dangerous.
I was the Student Vice President of Weinstein dorm when Rick Rubin lived there. I want to add some illuminating context to that free and transformative moment in time. Ricks dorm room like all of ours was small. But his dorm room was also inhabited by mountains of recording equipment so you could barely walk in. When you did squeeze in it was almost impossible to know if Rick was there or not hidden amongst all the equipment.
At this moment in time there was no cell phones, no social media, no parental involvement unless someone picked up the constantly ringing hallway landline which no one ever did. We were all free to rebel in the most nonjudgmental beautiful way. Washington Square park was an urban carnival which anchored NYU’s campus. St. Marks Place and the lower east side had affordable run down apartments filled with artists, dreamers and experimenters. ( years later we were horrified to learn a Gap store opened on St Marks Place) At the time MTV had just started and we would all gather around the giant box of a TV in the lobby of the Weinstein dorm to watch the newest music video release. Several of the dorm’s front desk staff also moonlighted as MTV VJs.
As the president of the dorm we had a budget to throw parties in the basement of the dorm. The drinking age in NY was still 18 so we were free to stock the parties with beer and hard liquor. Rick was in charge of the music so in this cinderblock space he grandly exalted the party by bringing his artists. As a white girl in the burbs of Philly, by high school, the doors of hip hop were newly cracked open by artists like Grand Master Flash and NWA. But now in the basement in Weinstein dorm Rick brought his “friends”( aka his artists since unbenounced to us he was already in business) like the Beasty Boys and LLCool J. Needless to say the party was a sublime moment in time. We had no idea that Rick and these artists would become legendary but we intuitively knew we were experiencing something transformative. This was the precipice of what Rick was driving forward, a populace uprising, and would ultimately enter the mainstream before anyone knew it was possible. For us we just felt it in our bones as the party blasted all around us.
A funny story Rick may not remember, but once he asked me to pick him up a pack of razors when I went to the store to buy party supplies with the dorm party budget. When I returned from the store and squeezed into Ricks dorm room to locate him and deliver the razors, I told him it probably wasn’t a good idea to buy personal stuff on the dorm budget since the president watched every penny. Even back then Rick just took this in by deeply listening and after a few silent minutes he nodded his head.
I am not sure if it was that moment Rick gave up shaving but I swear I never saw Rick clean shaven again. I ultimately ( unlike Rick) took my LSAT and became a lawyer but I am VERY glad Rick didn’t. : )
Christakis was involved in (at the core of) the 2015 incident at Yale where a group of students verbally attacked Christakis (and Yale) for his alleged 'racism'. How did Yale respond to this outbreak of Maoist thinking? It gave prizes to the worst perpetrators. From Tablet "Yale Cements Its Line in the Academic Sand by Awarding the Student ‘Truthtellers’ Who Bullied Faculty" (https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/news/articles/yale-cements-its-line-in-the-academic-sand-by-awarding-the-student-truthtellers-who-bullied-faculty). Quote
"Yale’s Nakanishi Prize is awarded every spring to “two graduating seniors who, while maintaining high academic achievement, have provided exemplary leadership in enhancing race and/or ethnic relations at Yale College.” Normally, the bestowal of an undergraduate award, even at an august institution like Yale, is of interest to no one beyond the recipients, their classmates, and their families. This year’s prize, however, should trouble anyone concerned with the imperiled fate of free inquiry and rational dialogue at our nation’s institutions of higher learning: on May 21, Yale recognized—out of a graduating class of some 1,300—two individuals who did more than most of their peers to worsen race relations on campus.
Our story begins in the fall of 2015, when a mob of students surrounded professor Nicholas Christakis in the courtyard of Silliman, the residential college of which he used to be Master, a term used to describe head faculty members who oversee undergraduate life (more on this later). Christakis, a world-renowned sociologist and scientist, was there to answer complaints about an email sent by his wife, Erika, in response to a campus-wide message distributed by a Yale College dean of “student engagement,” Burgwell Howard, warning students away from wearing Halloween costumes that “threaten our sense of community.” For her mere suggestion that Yale undergraduates—adults who can legally vote and fight and die in the nation’s wars—be entrusted with the responsibility to choose their own Halloween costumes (and, furthermore, be entrusted to share whatever discomfort they may have about potentially “offensive” costumes with their peers, rather than encouraged to whine to overpaid, utterly superfluous, administrative busybodies), Erika Christakis was denounced by hundreds of Yale students, faculty, alumni, and countless off-campus agitators as an incorrigible bigot and “white supremacist” whose job should be taken from her.
But Nicholas Christakis was doing more than just defending the honor of his wife that afternoon in the Silliman courtyard. As video of the several hours-long ordeal revealed, Christakis was defending the most fundamental principle of higher education: that the university should serve as a place of free inquiry where individuals can respectfully engage with one another in the pursuit of knowledge.
At least, that’s what places like Yale claim to stand for. Not anymore.
Of the 100 or so students who confronted Christakis that day, a young woman who called him “disgusting” and shouted “who the fuck hired you?” before storming off in tears became the most infamous, thanks to an 81-second YouTube clip that went viral. (The video also—thanks to its promotion by various right-wing websites—brought this student a torrent of anonymous harassment). The videos that Tablet exclusively posted last year, which showed a further 25 minutes of what was ultimately an hours-long confrontation, depicted a procession of students berating Christakis. In one clip, a male student strides up to Christakis and, standing mere inches from his face, orders the professor to “look at me.” Assuming this position of physical intimidation, the student then proceeds to declare that Christakis is incapable of understanding what he and his classmates are feeling because Christakis is white, and, ipso facto, cannot be a victim of racism. In another clip, a female student accuses Christakis of “strip[ping] people of their humanity” and “creat[ing] a space for violence to happen,” a line later mocked in an episode of The Simpsons. In the videos, Howard, the dean who wrote the costume provisions, can be seen lurking along the periphery of the mob.
Of Yale’s graduating class, it was these two students whom the Nakanishi Prize selection committee deemed most deserving of a prize for “enhancing race and/or ethnic relations” on campus. Hectoring bullies quick to throw baseless accusations of racism or worse; cosseted brats unscrupulous in their determination to smear the reputations of good people, these individuals in actuality represent the antithesis of everything this award is intended to honor. Yet, in the citation that was read to all the graduating seniors and their families on Class Day, Yale praised the latter student as “a fierce truthteller.”
This, for a hysterical liar who accused one of the university’s most distinguished academic minds of inciting “violence” upon his own students. And the chair of the selection committee? Burgwell Howard.
The Orwellian veneration of racial agitators as racial conciliators is the logical conclusion of Yale’s craven capitulation to the hard left forces of identitarian groupthink. From the very beginning of this ordeal, the Yale administration refused to state some simple but necessary truths: that the missive Erika Christakis wrote was entirely appropriate; that the “demands” issued by protesting students (such as an “ethnic studies distributional requirement”) were ridiculous; and, most important of all, that the rude and insubordinate treatment to which Nicholas Christakis was subjected rose to the level of a disciplinary offense. (It was not so long ago that mobbing a professor, physically threatening him, and screaming in his face, for hours, would result in expulsion)."
Be careful, Bari -- you are in danger of falling into the trap of snobbery...
I also consider myself someone who "has good taste", and personally disdain many things as "hack" art -- plastic, fake, mass-produced, "dumbed-down"; just a complete waste of time...
In MY opinion. In MY world.
You and I and all my fellow Honestly listeners must take Rick Rubin's lesson here to heart:
We can always have a friendly debate about what art is "good" and what is "bad"; but I believe Rick is correctly interpreting -- and agreeing with completely -- Jimi Hendrix's famous statement that "There are only 2 kinds of music: good and bad".
Yes there are only these 2 categories of art -- for each of us, individually.
Great interview -- thanks for spending this time with Rick Rubin and sharing his wisdom and experience with the Substack community!
I did it out of concern for a fellow human. If that is pathetic, so be it.
Your welcome John. In my experience most of the people who attack your views. Are incapable of defending their position. If you state it and you both agree to disagree is a good out come as neither side will feel defeated. I am from the Boomer generation and we generally respect each other’s views. , and leave it at that.
However if some one feels the need to berate me. I’m happy to put them in their place, it’s not particularly hard. Don’t be afraid to confront them in frount of their friends or in their workplace. This is particularly effective with keyboard cowards.
I'm Gen X and we're the group that eats popcorn watching the endless fights between the boomers and millennials.
Hi Steve,
Thank you for your thoughtful post. You are correct, sometimes I need to fight back. I guess it depends on the relationship I have with the person I’m interacting with. It feels most natural for me to take the gentler approach and generally that’s my default response and it’s been successful for me as I’ve been told by people in my community that my voice has influence.
However, I do have experience in dropping the gloves so to speak - and I’m not afraid to punch back hard when necessary. I don’t believe I communicated that in my original post.
Thank you again for your thoughtful post and I will get my hockey stick and gloves out and be ready to brawl if need be. :-)
Have a great day!
John
René Girard - he was years ahead of all this. Read his collected works on conflict theory, Christianity, and scapegoating
What is frightening to me is that since I’m a huge believer in the traditional family (I’m blessed with a girl and two boys, a wife (not “spouse”) - an active Catholic and involved in my community...... in many circles I am considered a radical right-wing person. I CANNOT BELIEVE THIS - it’s terrifying.
Much of the decay of our world is due to the fact that the values of family, faith and community and being attacked, devalued and mocked (sprinkle in a lot of social media).
The action I’m taking is to treat people who want to judge - rather than understand - me with respect and calmness. If someone attacks me for my beliefs and way I live I’ll just say calmly, “I’m sorry you feel this way,” then ask questions about what is it that’s so offensive and then ask them about their beliefs and thoughts. It won’t work all the time, but In the few times I’ve tried this, it seems to deflate the tension and lead to calm, respectful exchanging of thoughts. M
Believe me, my friends, I am angry and want to scream and say “what planet are you living on?” but that just accelerates the circle of anger and that makes me no better than them. This is not a spoiler alert but as Ted Lasso said in one of the episodes, “seek to understand first before we judge.”
I feel if our response is to challenge them firmly but with calmness and kindness (yes that’s hard) it will start to turn the ship around. We raise this entire issue to a higher level of discourse.
I’m interested in what y’all think? Has anyone else tried an approach similar to mine? I’m curious what you think, my friends!
Have a nice day everyone.
John
You at least sound like you practice what you preach. Growing up gay in a conservative town, I heard nothing but how sinful I was--from people who were on their 3rd marriage in many cases, from people who everyone knew were having affairs, etc. For a very long time, I became a cynic and learned that those who piously preach morality at others are often covering and trying to hide their own transgressions.
Social Media, especially Twitter, is an utter waste of time. It's an anger factory where you have to take a side. If you show any nuance at all, you're lumped into the right-wing or left-wing bucket, or ignored altogether. Everyone is better off never logging into Twitter, Tik Tok, or any of the social media platforms.
Since turning 40, I've met many people similar to you who sound like they ARE living honest lives and involved with their community out of a desire to help so I've softened a bit in terms of being open to people who disagree with me, but after finally getting to marry my spouse (yes, I do like that word) after 20+ years together, I will fight to keep MY family intact as I'm sure you would do for your own.
For as long as I can remember, I have pretty much gone my own way. I am pretty much supportive of any one who is the same. People needing to recruit others to their own point of view, is all around us. They have stopped talking to me because I don’t want to be recruited to their cause, that’s their loss. And in my opinion at least pretty in mature.
It sounds as if you have reached some sort of accomodation with people around you. I’m glad for you as it can be tough being different. But at the same time it defines who you are.
Just like any friendships and acquaintanceships, you learn that there are some topics you just don't talk about because you'll never agree. I'm in a unique situation that I think is rare in the U.S. these days. My town is split almost evenly between R's and D's. Most people are middle of the road and we just don't talk politics. It also helps that the main concern is keeping the roads paved and clean, maintaining the parks, and having a good police and fire department. That doesn't leave a lot of time for grandstanding about transgender issues or building a wall with Mexico.
I applaud your approach to dealing with social bullies, yes that’s what they are. I can see you are a committed Christian man. However “turning the other cheek” is not always the best approach. You can walk away and disconnect your self from them. If they try to cancel your own Personel believes. A last resort is to take the fight back to them. I know this is hard. I credit two years at a Catholic boarding school, with toughening me up and learning how to defend my self verbally. These day any one who wants to socially attack me had better be well armed, because I will be when I retaliate. Look for ways to sharpen your debating skills and gain self confidence
Hi Steve,
Thank you for your thoughtful post. You are correct, sometimes I need to fight back. I guess it depends on the relationship I have with the person I’m interacting with. It feels most natural for me to take the gentler approach and generally that’s my default response and it’s been successful for me as I’ve been told by people in my community that my voice has influence.
However, I do have experience in dropping the gloves so to speak - and I’m not afraid to punch back hard when necessary. I don’t believe I communicated that in my original post.
Thank you again for your thoughtful post and I will get my hockey stick and gloves out and be ready to brawl if need be. :-)
Have a great day!
John
This was a nice, relaxing listen to people I agree with. I found myself craving more vigorous engagement with the opposing viewpoints and more good faith in where others are coming from. I would love to have seen less time infantilising the college students and more time examining how intellectually honest people come to these flawed conclusions—beyond dismissing it all as mob mentality. (Although that dimension is not to be discounted.) Critique aside, thank you for the conversation; much enjoyed!
If your “friends” turn their back on you for having an independent thought then you are no doing a very good job of choosing friends.
that or they never were your friends