Ok, since you keep insisting, let’s look beyond the immediate to what came before this, such as senior Hamas political leader Fathi Hammad’s 2019 speech : “We must attack every Jew on the face of the earth. To slaughter and kill them, with the help of Allah.” Or the more recent video proclamation of Hamas senior official Mahmoud al-Zahar in 2022: “The entire 510 million square kilometers of Planet Earth will come under [a system] where there is no injustice, no oppression, no Zionism, no treacherous Christianity...”
That's right, atrocities don't come out of a void. The Nazis committed atrocities agains Jews but we must look at what came before that led to the anger and loss that could lead to Nazi atrocities. The Jews, you see, controlled the banks and with their hook noses they were poisoning the pure Aryan bloodlines in Germany. So what did you expect the Nazis to do?
See what I'm doing here, Maggie? There is good and there is evil. The Nazis were evil. Hamas is evil. Period. End of story.
Little known fact outside of Israel, modestly well-known fact little talked about within Israel: Hamas both exists and thrives because the Israeli right wants it to. Want to know why, or can you guess?
Do you think it came completely out of the blue? Good Lord
It was horrible, but even more horrible is to judge some people as simply evil and having no motivation via previous events that led to their terrible behavior.
You misread her comment. Under Israel mortality rates fell, life expectancy rose all the while additional billions were poured into Gaza. Israel is the only democracy in the region and this government has never, ever gunned down, tortured and kidnapped innocent civilians.
Steven, Bill & I, and SSR below, were all responding to Maggie4. Substack’s method of using indented vertical lines to indicate replies and sub-threads can be confusing
It doesn't matter where it came from. Only where it goes from here. These dumbass permavictims have sorely misjudged what this will cost them. It's gonna be a lot
Here’s your answer: The notion that poverty drives terrorism has been debunked. And in any case, there’s a reason the UN chose 2007 as a starting date. Per capita GDP in the West Bank and Gaza rose tenfold between 1968 (when Israel took control of the disputed territories) and 1991, surpassing the levels of Jordan, Egypt, Turkey and Tunisia. Mortality rates in the West Bank and Gaza fell by more than two-thirds between 1970 and 1990, while life expectancy rose from 48 years in 1967 to 72 in 2000 (compared to an average of 68 years for all the countries of the Middle East and North Africa). Meanwhile countries and NGOs have poured billions into Gaza - most misappropriated by the terrorist- run government whose corrupt leaders enrich themselves at their people’s expense.
No, somebody better tell the UN to at least CONDEMN the Hamas invasion and terror attacks which the Security Council refused to do at yesterday’s meeting. The UN is fast approaching zero moral or factual credibility.
And, yes, terror attacks. Terrorism is defined as "the threat or use of violence to intimidate or coerce in the pursuit of political or ideological goals.” Are you seriously saying this wasn’t terrorism?? Tell that to the young women attending a music festival who according to eyewitness accounts were raped and then paraded through Gaza to the cheers of the crowd (cheers!?!?!) with "blood gushing between their legs."
As for poverty leading to acts of terror, you don’t site any sources for the UN’s assertions, but here’s some of mine: A 2006 study on terrorism for 96 countries between 1986 and 2002 found no link between its economic measures and terrorism. In 2002, Alan Krueger, a professor of economics and public affairs at Princeton, and Jitka Malecková, an associate professor at the Institute for Middle Eastern and African Studies at Charles University, made the argument in The New Republic against poverty’s role in terrorism with a wide-ranging presentation of evidence including evidence gathered from Hezbollah and Hamas suggesting that upper class and more educated individuals are slightly over-represented in among terrorists because terror groups actively select for those individuals from large populations of potential recruits.’
Again, you cannot absolve the perpetrators of agency for these heinous acts
You seem to be missing that the spectrum of successful options I state Israel has includes raze the Gaza strip, and that current tensions persist from the West not allowing Israel to do as it wished upon winning the wars, because they would have guaranteed greater security by killing and pushing out more people. I am merely pointing out that in the absence of the moral conviction to take such action now despite what the West says, the options are more of the same or a massive change in current policies.
You must have me confused with Hamas. I don’t want Gaza to be razed or sanction the “killing and pushing out more people.” I want Hamas to surrender, release the hostages and bodies, de-militarize, disarm, expel its leaders and, I don’t know, turn over Gaza to a new government willing to disavow Hamas make a real peace with Israel
I am merely pointing out that in the absence of the moral conviction to take such action now despite what the West says, the options are more of the same or a massive change in current policies.
Now it’s you with the “but”. No matter how inept or unfair, Israel’s conduct has nada, nothing, zilch connection to the slaughter of elderly, women, children that’s being perpetrated by Hamas. The only thing that would appease Hamas and its followers’ misogynist pathological, antisemitic bloodlust would be if Israel committed suicide, which ain’t happening
Little known fact outside of Israel, modestly well-known fact little talked about within Israel: Hamas both exists and thrives because the Israeli right wants it to.
There you go with "but" again. When someone like you outs themselves as an apologist for atrocities and those who commit them, they deserve no explanations or attention
I'll repeat what I've said elsewhere: Rarely does a nation state come into being without ugliness. Nations exist because they declared they do, because other nations recognized them, because they established their borders, and they defended any attempts to end their existence. That is why any nation exists today. Any nation that cannot do that will not exist for long. IIt is what it is. I'll leave the right or wrong of it for others to argue.
Anyone who would desecrate a naked corpse or machine gun non-uniformed non-soldiers is not worth negotiating with. These are animals who inherit the mentality of the Third Reich. After all, the Nazis surely had reason to do what they did - who are we to judge?
The reality is they started a war against the Jews and lost. That is the way of history. Most groups when given land to start a nation, work on their nation. Instead the Palestinians just try to tear down, when will they try to build a functioning nation state without blaming everyone else? Why are they still in refugee camps after 75 years? What is wrong that they can't seem to flourish and chose hate?
Ok, since you keep insisting, let’s look beyond the immediate to what came before this, such as senior Hamas political leader Fathi Hammad’s 2019 speech : “We must attack every Jew on the face of the earth. To slaughter and kill them, with the help of Allah.” Or the more recent video proclamation of Hamas senior official Mahmoud al-Zahar in 2022: “The entire 510 million square kilometers of Planet Earth will come under [a system] where there is no injustice, no oppression, no Zionism, no treacherous Christianity...”
That's right, atrocities don't come out of a void. The Nazis committed atrocities agains Jews but we must look at what came before that led to the anger and loss that could lead to Nazi atrocities. The Jews, you see, controlled the banks and with their hook noses they were poisoning the pure Aryan bloodlines in Germany. So what did you expect the Nazis to do?
See what I'm doing here, Maggie? There is good and there is evil. The Nazis were evil. Hamas is evil. Period. End of story.
Good (Israel) must defeat evil (Hamas).
You live in the US? Picture your children kidnapped and mutilated by bands of murderous thugs whose land you actually stole.
You are actually trying to justify this??! Good Lord.
Little known fact outside of Israel, modestly well-known fact little talked about within Israel: Hamas both exists and thrives because the Israeli right wants it to. Want to know why, or can you guess?
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/
https://lawliberty.org/israels-darkest-day/
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/2020-02-24/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-israel-mossad-chief-doha-qatar-continue-hamas-gaza-money-transfer/0000017f-ded8-d856-a37f-ffd88a960000
Do you think it came completely out of the blue? Good Lord
It was horrible, but even more horrible is to judge some people as simply evil and having no motivation via previous events that led to their terrible behavior.
You just stated its more horrible to judge some people than it is to violently murder people? Are you listening to yourself???????
Their motivation is to completely annihilate Israel and wipe the Jews off the planet. Do you also justify the Holocaust?
No these people are evil. Open your eyes and stop auditioning for a job at MSNBC
You misread her comment. Under Israel mortality rates fell, life expectancy rose all the while additional billions were poured into Gaza. Israel is the only democracy in the region and this government has never, ever gunned down, tortured and kidnapped innocent civilians.
Steven, Bill & I, and SSR below, were all responding to Maggie4. Substack’s method of using indented vertical lines to indicate replies and sub-threads can be confusing
I didn’t miss read anyone’s comment. Are you which comment I’m responding to are you responding to mine.
Got it. I apologize to you Bill, Ruth and Steven.
There is no “but”. These atrocities are pure evil. No motivation matters because none could justify it
It doesn't matter where it came from. Only where it goes from here. These dumbass permavictims have sorely misjudged what this will cost them. It's gonna be a lot
Israel will not get surprised again, I'm certain of it. Am Yisrael Chai.
Here’s your answer: The notion that poverty drives terrorism has been debunked. And in any case, there’s a reason the UN chose 2007 as a starting date. Per capita GDP in the West Bank and Gaza rose tenfold between 1968 (when Israel took control of the disputed territories) and 1991, surpassing the levels of Jordan, Egypt, Turkey and Tunisia. Mortality rates in the West Bank and Gaza fell by more than two-thirds between 1970 and 1990, while life expectancy rose from 48 years in 1967 to 72 in 2000 (compared to an average of 68 years for all the countries of the Middle East and North Africa). Meanwhile countries and NGOs have poured billions into Gaza - most misappropriated by the terrorist- run government whose corrupt leaders enrich themselves at their people’s expense.
No, somebody better tell the UN to at least CONDEMN the Hamas invasion and terror attacks which the Security Council refused to do at yesterday’s meeting. The UN is fast approaching zero moral or factual credibility.
And, yes, terror attacks. Terrorism is defined as "the threat or use of violence to intimidate or coerce in the pursuit of political or ideological goals.” Are you seriously saying this wasn’t terrorism?? Tell that to the young women attending a music festival who according to eyewitness accounts were raped and then paraded through Gaza to the cheers of the crowd (cheers!?!?!) with "blood gushing between their legs."
As for poverty leading to acts of terror, you don’t site any sources for the UN’s assertions, but here’s some of mine: A 2006 study on terrorism for 96 countries between 1986 and 2002 found no link between its economic measures and terrorism. In 2002, Alan Krueger, a professor of economics and public affairs at Princeton, and Jitka Malecková, an associate professor at the Institute for Middle Eastern and African Studies at Charles University, made the argument in The New Republic against poverty’s role in terrorism with a wide-ranging presentation of evidence including evidence gathered from Hezbollah and Hamas suggesting that upper class and more educated individuals are slightly over-represented in among terrorists because terror groups actively select for those individuals from large populations of potential recruits.’
Again, you cannot absolve the perpetrators of agency for these heinous acts
You seem to be missing that the spectrum of successful options I state Israel has includes raze the Gaza strip, and that current tensions persist from the West not allowing Israel to do as it wished upon winning the wars, because they would have guaranteed greater security by killing and pushing out more people. I am merely pointing out that in the absence of the moral conviction to take such action now despite what the West says, the options are more of the same or a massive change in current policies.
You must have me confused with Hamas. I don’t want Gaza to be razed or sanction the “killing and pushing out more people.” I want Hamas to surrender, release the hostages and bodies, de-militarize, disarm, expel its leaders and, I don’t know, turn over Gaza to a new government willing to disavow Hamas make a real peace with Israel
I am merely pointing out that in the absence of the moral conviction to take such action now despite what the West says, the options are more of the same or a massive change in current policies.
Now it’s you with the “but”. No matter how inept or unfair, Israel’s conduct has nada, nothing, zilch connection to the slaughter of elderly, women, children that’s being perpetrated by Hamas. The only thing that would appease Hamas and its followers’ misogynist pathological, antisemitic bloodlust would be if Israel committed suicide, which ain’t happening
Little known fact outside of Israel, modestly well-known fact little talked about within Israel: Hamas both exists and thrives because the Israeli right wants it to.
https://www.timesofisrael.com/for-years-netanyahu-propped-up-hamas-now-its-blown-up-in-our-faces/
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2014/07/30/how-israel-helped-create-hamas/
https://lawliberty.org/israels-darkest-day/
https://www.haaretz.com/middle-east-news/2020-02-24/ty-article/.premium/netanyahu-israel-mossad-chief-doha-qatar-continue-hamas-gaza-money-transfer/0000017f-ded8-d856-a37f-ffd88a960000
They do. They have.
Please don't waste your time, Lynne.
Thanks for the advice. But I am chilled to the core by anyone who offers a defense of today's horrific events.
Amen
I'm far too outraged to be chilled, though I share your passion. Save your strength and words for those who matter.
Thank you.
There you go with "but" again. When someone like you outs themselves as an apologist for atrocities and those who commit them, they deserve no explanations or attention
Shamima Begum, is that you??? Did they let you back into the UK?
I'll repeat what I've said elsewhere: Rarely does a nation state come into being without ugliness. Nations exist because they declared they do, because other nations recognized them, because they established their borders, and they defended any attempts to end their existence. That is why any nation exists today. Any nation that cannot do that will not exist for long. IIt is what it is. I'll leave the right or wrong of it for others to argue.
Anyone who would desecrate a naked corpse or machine gun non-uniformed non-soldiers is not worth negotiating with. These are animals who inherit the mentality of the Third Reich. After all, the Nazis surely had reason to do what they did - who are we to judge?
Asshole.
The reality is they started a war against the Jews and lost. That is the way of history. Most groups when given land to start a nation, work on their nation. Instead the Palestinians just try to tear down, when will they try to build a functioning nation state without blaming everyone else? Why are they still in refugee camps after 75 years? What is wrong that they can't seem to flourish and chose hate?
Well said.
That anger came from the Quran and the religious zealots that use it to justify their obligation to rid the world of Jews.