Very interesting debate, I’m very glad TFP produces content like this. My takeaway from this discussion is that the path to a positive resolution to this problem will likely require a bit more legislative action than Yascha would like but much less than what Rufo is pushing for.
There is no doubt that Rufo’s methods have been successful i…
Very interesting debate, I’m very glad TFP produces content like this. My takeaway from this discussion is that the path to a positive resolution to this problem will likely require a bit more legislative action than Yascha would like but much less than what Rufo is pushing for.
There is no doubt that Rufo’s methods have been successful in the short term and Yaschas perspective is too idealistic, but government overreach cuts both ways. Yascha is completely right that you cannot save liberalism with illiberalism and despite what Rufo says, the work he’s done often qualifies as illiberalism.
No I don’t think it’s illiberal ‘to have some control over our public schools’, but I also don’t think that statement is representative of Rufo’s work. Some of what he has advocated for and achieved arguably amounts to censorship.
"Some of what he has advocated for and achieved arguably amounts to censorship."
Can you cite a specific example? This sounds untrue to me. Rufo makes clear he isn't involved in the drafting of actual legislative proposals, but rather references model legislation.
Mounk references the Stop WOKE Act specifically and in my view makes a compelling case (he goes into more depth in other podcasts/articles).
If Rufo is going to take credit for the legislation he’s influenced don’t you think it’s kind of disingenuous to then claim no responsibility for any overreach that comes from it?
In theory I am too. But I am afraid that when you enshrine this power into law, eventually unreasonable people will get to be in charge and we will have granted them a power they shouldn’t have. This is always the problem with censorship of any kind.
agreed it's a danger. I just don't think we can wait decades in the hope that we can take our education system back. Meanwhile they indoctrinate millions of kids in this poisonous ideology
Very interesting debate, I’m very glad TFP produces content like this. My takeaway from this discussion is that the path to a positive resolution to this problem will likely require a bit more legislative action than Yascha would like but much less than what Rufo is pushing for.
There is no doubt that Rufo’s methods have been successful in the short term and Yaschas perspective is too idealistic, but government overreach cuts both ways. Yascha is completely right that you cannot save liberalism with illiberalism and despite what Rufo says, the work he’s done often qualifies as illiberalism.
Is it really illiberal to have some control over public schools? Or do we have to wait decades in the hopes that they will fix themselves?
No I don’t think it’s illiberal ‘to have some control over our public schools’, but I also don’t think that statement is representative of Rufo’s work. Some of what he has advocated for and achieved arguably amounts to censorship.
By which I mean that something needs to be done but it needs to be done carefully and Rufo isn’t doing it carefully enough for me.
"Some of what he has advocated for and achieved arguably amounts to censorship."
Can you cite a specific example? This sounds untrue to me. Rufo makes clear he isn't involved in the drafting of actual legislative proposals, but rather references model legislation.
Mounk references the Stop WOKE Act specifically and in my view makes a compelling case (he goes into more depth in other podcasts/articles).
If Rufo is going to take credit for the legislation he’s influenced don’t you think it’s kind of disingenuous to then claim no responsibility for any overreach that comes from it?
Fair enough.
I'm o k with censorship that says you Can't teach white supremacy in public schools
I'm also o k with censorship that says you can't teach Whites are evil in public schools.
In theory I am too. But I am afraid that when you enshrine this power into law, eventually unreasonable people will get to be in charge and we will have granted them a power they shouldn’t have. This is always the problem with censorship of any kind.
agreed it's a danger. I just don't think we can wait decades in the hope that we can take our education system back. Meanwhile they indoctrinate millions of kids in this poisonous ideology
I agree