I say yes it’s still alive. However, we have become somewhat soft. I recall the great migration west and north. People looking for jobs migrated with in the US for opportunity. If you can’t afford a home in NYC or California try oklahoma. it may not be ideal but hey it’s much more affordable. isn’t that the point? people have choices. stay in a high cost of living area or move and buy a house.
Bari - perhaps the debate should be - "Should the government stop spending more than it takes in?"
The Interest on our deficit and cumulative debt is reaching one trillion dollars. We could raid the top 1% and make no impact on the outstanding debt. Combine higher interest rates with the butt backwards energy policy - you have a disaster in the making!
We take in 4 trillion and spend 6 trillion.
We should be absolutely gutting the Federal Government. To an appropriate size. I am believer in an an appropriate sized Government - small federal government won't ever come back.
Income inequality is one thing. But while the top 1% may have more than the entire middle class, the bottom few percentiles here still live at higher levels than most of the world. In the US, the most common form of malnutrition is overnutrition. How many people are hungry because they can't afford food? Seen many lately?
The myth is propagated mainly by politicians to get votes and by the media to sell ads. It doesn't reflect much of reality in the US. It has been observed elsewhere in the comments that in some places, illegals are treated much better than our own citizens. Why? Because the people who complain about income inequality elect officials who institute policies that take money out of their pockets and spend it foolishly. And then they lie about why resources are scarce (which scarcity directly causes inflation): greed on the parts of the energy industry/farmers/doctors/etc. The reality is far different.
Yes, there is income inequality, but it is caused by a myriad of reasons. Changes in population numbers, changes from manufacturing to technology and service based economy, changes in educational expectations and requirements for work. Learned helplessness from gov't that gives people a fish instead of teaching them to fish, and, more to the point, traps them in a system that while stating it encourages getting up on your own two feet, actually makes it virtually impossible to, because of the "cliff" you fall off with the loss of benefits at the point you are expected to launch. Redistributing income is not the answer. As for taxes, we need those high paying top 10%. That top 10% of earners pays more in taxes to the government than any other group of taxpayers - approximately 75% of all income taxes, the top 25% of earners pay 89% of taxes collected, top 50% paid 98% of taxes. the remaining 50% (inidividuals earning less than approxiamately $46K a year) essentially pay only 2.3%. The American Dream exists, but you have to work for it, not expect it.
My point exactly. What's wrong with income inequality? People make more than I do and people make less. Some people argue about it, but there is a strong causal relationship between IQ and income. IQ is largely genetic. So is height. And pulchritude. Guess what--they also correlate with income. I'm short and look like I fell off of Notre Dame. God doesn't give with both hands.
Cynical mode right now... The only truly free people in this country are illegal immigrants. They have no financial burden(taxation), are immune from laws, and get free health care - et al - courtesy of you(we) taxpayers.
Is the American Dream Alive? IDK... My son makes $85K per year and can't afford housing in MN while shelling out 50% of his pay to everyone else. You tell me.
If you want a real debate Bari, debate me. Because the Free Press now censors and does so idiotically. I was banned from commenting for referring to Spartacus as a "revolting slave." If the people you hire to police your comments had IQs above a field mouse and a smidgen of literacy, they'd know that Spartacus led a slave rebellion in Rome in 73 BC. And yet, despite this moronic silliness in censoring there is no appeal, no sense of ordered rules. Just caprice and stupidity. Those cheering Bari as a free speech advocate should be aware that her creation honors free speech by suppressing it.
As my high school seniors began telling me, toward the end of my career, as I was still trying to teach Shakespeare, “But Mrs. P, there is only one acceptable definition for any word!” When I challenged their English teachers for telling them this, the teachers invariably replied, “But Mrs. P, I have to teach to the test!”
Perhaps the intern who censored you graduated in California.
A big reason why there is a political realignment going on. Personally, I loved seeing a Teamsters Union guy speak at the RNC. The Dems no longer stand for or with working men and women. They are the party of the rich and the indolent. All in between are cast aside and ridiculed, as their jobs are shipped overseas, their communities wrecked by drugs and illegal migrants and their religion and way of life mocked and attacked.
A corporate debate by wealthy corporate people in front of a paying audience of same...? Will this "debate" be moderate by wealthy corporate hacks and then written about in a trendy online corporate publication?
Wow! The Free Press is really breaking new ground with these "debates"!
The DemoKratiK Party Rehabilitation ProjeKt, DELENDA EST!
I'm looking forward to this debate. One of the subtopics that I believe deserves more than a cursory glance is the concentration of wealth, especially among the top 1%. These statistics are often cited as indicative of a treacherous path, but a more thorough review might reveal that there are both positive and negative aspects to what is happening.
For example, the staggering concentration of wealth within the top 0.1% warrants its own debate for various reasons. While this tiny group of households commands a significant portion of wealth, there is also positive migrations in wealth at all levels. The entry point to be in the top 1% makes you very wealthy, but it doesn’t necessarily mean you have a yacht with a helipad. If wealth is used as an indicator of truly achieving the American Dream, the top 10% or so is a more likely measure.
A discussion that excludes the top 0.1% can explore the upward mobility of millions of households as they have accumulated wealth over the last decade. This does not imply that everyone has the same access or opportunities, so there is still much work to be done. However, contrary to popular belief, wealth is not a zero-sum game.
There could be no better topic for the debate than the status of The American Dream.
The above said, I do not agree that the American Dream is about reaching middle class or doing better materially than your parents. In my view, the American Dream exists because of the freedom that an individual has in the U.S. to pursue their their own dream regardless of what it is. The critical emphasis of the previous sentence is on "their own dream." This is opposed to a dream, career, etc. chosen by one's parents or friends or society or influenced by their background. This is an absolutely awesome level of freedom. But in order for this level of freedom's full value to be realized, an equally awesome amount of personal responsibility is required. It is this requirement that breaks down most frequently and moreso in today's post-modern riddled society.
"The American Dream is at the core of our national ethos. We pride ourselves on the notion that, unlike in other places, with enough hard work and determination, anyone in America can have a successful middle-class life."
This is no longer the case. People with lower IQ's and disabilities are being left behind since our manufacturing and customer service jobs have been sent overseas. Sure hard work can pay off and some income is better than no income, but no amount of soft skills will make up for deficits in aptitude.
We have been sold a bill of goods. Every person does not have the same inherent abilities (for example to be a genius in STEM) and after a certain age, IQ is pretty much set.
I wasn't trying to be a smart ass. I think that if a person concentrates almost entirely on becoming wealthy, they can do that. Of course many high IQ people do that, too. And become fabulously wealtty.
I say yes it’s still alive. However, we have become somewhat soft. I recall the great migration west and north. People looking for jobs migrated with in the US for opportunity. If you can’t afford a home in NYC or California try oklahoma. it may not be ideal but hey it’s much more affordable. isn’t that the point? people have choices. stay in a high cost of living area or move and buy a house.
I know I know some can’t move. but many can
The code is not working
Bari - perhaps the debate should be - "Should the government stop spending more than it takes in?"
The Interest on our deficit and cumulative debt is reaching one trillion dollars. We could raid the top 1% and make no impact on the outstanding debt. Combine higher interest rates with the butt backwards energy policy - you have a disaster in the making!
We take in 4 trillion and spend 6 trillion.
We should be absolutely gutting the Federal Government. To an appropriate size. I am believer in an an appropriate sized Government - small federal government won't ever come back.
Income inequality is one thing. But while the top 1% may have more than the entire middle class, the bottom few percentiles here still live at higher levels than most of the world. In the US, the most common form of malnutrition is overnutrition. How many people are hungry because they can't afford food? Seen many lately?
The myth is propagated mainly by politicians to get votes and by the media to sell ads. It doesn't reflect much of reality in the US. It has been observed elsewhere in the comments that in some places, illegals are treated much better than our own citizens. Why? Because the people who complain about income inequality elect officials who institute policies that take money out of their pockets and spend it foolishly. And then they lie about why resources are scarce (which scarcity directly causes inflation): greed on the parts of the energy industry/farmers/doctors/etc. The reality is far different.
Debate, indeed!
Yes, there is income inequality, but it is caused by a myriad of reasons. Changes in population numbers, changes from manufacturing to technology and service based economy, changes in educational expectations and requirements for work. Learned helplessness from gov't that gives people a fish instead of teaching them to fish, and, more to the point, traps them in a system that while stating it encourages getting up on your own two feet, actually makes it virtually impossible to, because of the "cliff" you fall off with the loss of benefits at the point you are expected to launch. Redistributing income is not the answer. As for taxes, we need those high paying top 10%. That top 10% of earners pays more in taxes to the government than any other group of taxpayers - approximately 75% of all income taxes, the top 25% of earners pay 89% of taxes collected, top 50% paid 98% of taxes. the remaining 50% (inidividuals earning less than approxiamately $46K a year) essentially pay only 2.3%. The American Dream exists, but you have to work for it, not expect it.
My point exactly. What's wrong with income inequality? People make more than I do and people make less. Some people argue about it, but there is a strong causal relationship between IQ and income. IQ is largely genetic. So is height. And pulchritude. Guess what--they also correlate with income. I'm short and look like I fell off of Notre Dame. God doesn't give with both hands.
NICE!!!
The debates are my favorite production of FP. Thank you!!!!
Cynical mode right now... The only truly free people in this country are illegal immigrants. They have no financial burden(taxation), are immune from laws, and get free health care - et al - courtesy of you(we) taxpayers.
Is the American Dream Alive? IDK... My son makes $85K per year and can't afford housing in MN while shelling out 50% of his pay to everyone else. You tell me.
Numbers don’t lie. Socialists do.
Income and wealth are not the same thing, and it’s not going to be much of a discussion if you can’t get that right.
If you want a real debate Bari, debate me. Because the Free Press now censors and does so idiotically. I was banned from commenting for referring to Spartacus as a "revolting slave." If the people you hire to police your comments had IQs above a field mouse and a smidgen of literacy, they'd know that Spartacus led a slave rebellion in Rome in 73 BC. And yet, despite this moronic silliness in censoring there is no appeal, no sense of ordered rules. Just caprice and stupidity. Those cheering Bari as a free speech advocate should be aware that her creation honors free speech by suppressing it.
As my high school seniors began telling me, toward the end of my career, as I was still trying to teach Shakespeare, “But Mrs. P, there is only one acceptable definition for any word!” When I challenged their English teachers for telling them this, the teachers invariably replied, “But Mrs. P, I have to teach to the test!”
Perhaps the intern who censored you graduated in California.
A big reason why there is a political realignment going on. Personally, I loved seeing a Teamsters Union guy speak at the RNC. The Dems no longer stand for or with working men and women. They are the party of the rich and the indolent. All in between are cast aside and ridiculed, as their jobs are shipped overseas, their communities wrecked by drugs and illegal migrants and their religion and way of life mocked and attacked.
A corporate debate by wealthy corporate people in front of a paying audience of same...? Will this "debate" be moderate by wealthy corporate hacks and then written about in a trendy online corporate publication?
Wow! The Free Press is really breaking new ground with these "debates"!
The DemoKratiK Party Rehabilitation ProjeKt, DELENDA EST!
My thoughts, almost exactly.
I'm looking forward to this debate. One of the subtopics that I believe deserves more than a cursory glance is the concentration of wealth, especially among the top 1%. These statistics are often cited as indicative of a treacherous path, but a more thorough review might reveal that there are both positive and negative aspects to what is happening.
For example, the staggering concentration of wealth within the top 0.1% warrants its own debate for various reasons. While this tiny group of households commands a significant portion of wealth, there is also positive migrations in wealth at all levels. The entry point to be in the top 1% makes you very wealthy, but it doesn’t necessarily mean you have a yacht with a helipad. If wealth is used as an indicator of truly achieving the American Dream, the top 10% or so is a more likely measure.
A discussion that excludes the top 0.1% can explore the upward mobility of millions of households as they have accumulated wealth over the last decade. This does not imply that everyone has the same access or opportunities, so there is still much work to be done. However, contrary to popular belief, wealth is not a zero-sum game.
There could be no better topic for the debate than the status of The American Dream.
The above said, I do not agree that the American Dream is about reaching middle class or doing better materially than your parents. In my view, the American Dream exists because of the freedom that an individual has in the U.S. to pursue their their own dream regardless of what it is. The critical emphasis of the previous sentence is on "their own dream." This is opposed to a dream, career, etc. chosen by one's parents or friends or society or influenced by their background. This is an absolutely awesome level of freedom. But in order for this level of freedom's full value to be realized, an equally awesome amount of personal responsibility is required. It is this requirement that breaks down most frequently and moreso in today's post-modern riddled society.
Now, that’s a debate worth having!
Before the discussion read “The Myth of American Inequality” by Gramm etal
"The American Dream is at the core of our national ethos. We pride ourselves on the notion that, unlike in other places, with enough hard work and determination, anyone in America can have a successful middle-class life."
This is no longer the case. People with lower IQ's and disabilities are being left behind since our manufacturing and customer service jobs have been sent overseas. Sure hard work can pay off and some income is better than no income, but no amount of soft skills will make up for deficits in aptitude.
We have been sold a bill of goods. Every person does not have the same inherent abilities (for example to be a genius in STEM) and after a certain age, IQ is pretty much set.
Your first mistake is believing that IQ and financial success are correlated.
Really?
I can see the argument for that too.
I wasn't trying to be a smart ass. I think that if a person concentrates almost entirely on becoming wealthy, they can do that. Of course many high IQ people do that, too. And become fabulously wealtty.