You should spend more time actually learning from other people instead of judging them and assuming you KNOW what, and how “they all think”. You are quick to label people, claiming their facts are not real, while claiming your facts are. IRONY
(but I am far from this guy’s intelligence level, I am but a rube)
If our America has groups arguing with with facts that are fake, where are the actual facts hiding? IF ALL SIDES ARE ARGUING WITH LIES, WHERE IS THE TRUTH HIDING??
I feel you are too lazy to actually try and LEARN what real Americans (not elitist intellectuals). That, or you are afraid of what you might find, that you are wrong. And that terrifies someone like you. In my humble opinion.
What happened on Jan. 6th was not nearly as bad as what happened later. Pelosi's "committee" has imprisoned people without trial for a year, kept them in solitary confinement, and refused to allow them to post bail.
I don’t know how many of you heard the interview with Liz Cheney that Beri did. I literally listen to it as one of the first things I had listened to about January 6. I remember that day cause I was on my way to a vacation and I literally missed all of it as did my wife. I gained a new respect for her because of all the different ways she tried to frame a question to get an actual answer. And she never did.
I learned nothing of the actual arguments from Liz Cheney it was just large platitudes and rally points basically. Truly one of the most frustrating conversations I’ve ever heard in my life. 🥺. I don’t blame Bari really. I feel like at least three or four times she tried to frame the question in a way to get an answer and just never could. I don’t know what else you do in a situation like that.
I’m sure son would say hold her feet to the fire and make her give an actual answer but I’m sure there’s a balancing act of respect you have to have while also trying to ask real things. But it was very disappointing
Mr. Goldberg, do not let your strong dislike of Trump to make you fail seeing the truth. For people to accept election results, especially ones they do not like, they have to trust the integrity of the results. When one party (Dems, which you appear to favor as a never-Trumper) is doing everything possible to decrease integrity, reasonable people will assume that they have a reason for it. Combine it with all the pieces we do know (suitcases of votes afterhours in Atlanta, destroying evidence in Pennsylvania, illegal election rule changes in Wisconsin and elsewhere, fighting tooth and nail against voter IDs, ...), and you get a Dem president which is not considered legally elected by 1/3 or more of the electorate.
“Trump acted like a wartime president, with the enemy being his domestic opponents.” I stopped reading there. That’s the point where I realized this article wasn’t worth my time. Are you serious? Trump says stuff. Often the stuff is incoherent (unlike all other politicians he doesn’t think before he opens his mouth). But you’re never left wondering what he thinks at that moment. This is what I can’t get over, or even understand about the never Trump crowd. The Democrats used the nation’s intelligence apparatus to spy on their political opponents. The Democrats ordered the raid on James O’Keefe and leaked privileged communications to the NYT. The Democrat attorney general of New York vowed to use the office to find something to prosecute Trump on. The Democrats for years said Trump was the agent of an adversarial power (talk about wartime rhetoric). For all the talk of Trump being a fascist, he let governors take the lead with Covid and didn’t send in the national guard to quell rioting in major cities. Either of those “emergencies” would have provided more than enough cover for a true fascist to take (by force) extraordinary powers that would never be relinquished. How do you think Hillary would have responded? Do you think there’s even a chance she wouldn’t have grown executive power exponentially? I used to have such respect for you. Liberal Fascism is still one of my top 3 books. But this hate Trump no matter what garbage……it’s sad. Maybe you’ve been an elite for so long that you are incapable of understanding the sentiment the rest of the country harbors toward you all with President Snow in the capital. Trump is not the cause of anything. He is a symptom. All he did was give voice to frustration and anger millions of American already had. Please see that. You give Trump WAY too much credit.
There are many good points made in this essay. However, there are also inaccurate statements as well as the seemingly irresistible urge to paint all Trump voters as these Trump fanatics. I did not vote for Trump in 2016 (nor did I vote for Hillary; feeling like the barrel was literally scraped for the two parties to put forth these candidates). While I didn't vote for him because a) I find him to be an abhorrent narcissist and b) he had absolutely no record for which one could find confidence in his capabilities. That being said, I understand why he won and people just want to focus on his base being a bunch of "deplorables" (a gross misstep with that term). Need I state the obvious...there is a HUGE lack of confidence in our government. This cannot be minimized. Term limits would put an end to much of this, but why would anyone in the senate or congress do something that would put boundaries on their own power?! He won BECAUSE of that. He wasn't a politician. This doesn't make his voters idiots (although some undoubtedly are); this make his voters, who are largely low-middle class, desperate. I won't get into my own personal situation of two college-educated people with four kids, clawing our way through life. However, when you work your butt off, and should have what is a decent living, but you get absolutely nothing but tax bills (no Obamacare, no college tuition grants, no health deductions even, and little to no savings as a result), it is frustrating! You look to your government and all you see are career politicians getting fat off of insider trading. Like any cult leader, did Trump take advantage of this vulnerability? Absolutely! But he also delivered; which led to me casting my vote for him in 2020. As for the "big lie", when there is this predisposition to mistrust government combined with voter "anomalies" which can be perceived as fraud, it is no comfort to hear that it "isn't 'widespread' fraud". I'm an accountant. Part of the initial work on an audit, is to test the integrity of the accounting software. If something is wrong, a $500 error can easily turn into a $500,000 error if not corrected. The same principle applies here. Investigate. Put people's minds at ease. This in conjunction with governors (like in my state of PA) changing voting rules with ZERO legislation passed, only adds to the corruption mentality. And for good reason. This created a perfect storm for what transpired on January 6th. I don't condone it. In fact, I wouldn't cross the street to shake hands with ANY politician, let alone stand out in the cold to listen to some blow hard cry about his bruised ego. Did Trump play into this to feel the love and feel like a "winner"? Absolutely. Did he encourage violence? Not that I saw. Did he step in early enough? No. But let's lay the blame at ALL of the feet of those responsible. While I agree with a previous poster that shot down the argument of "whataboutism", you can not deny that failure to act has consequences. If you let cities burn, federal monuments be toppled, policeman be attacked and their stations be burned to the ground, with no consequences, you have set the stage. As such, you can come to no other conclusion but that there is plenty of blame to go around.
Liz Cheney deserves everything she gets. Her and her war monger dad took many young mens’ and womens’ lives and loves away in support of their war profits and fake pretend standing on the alter of truth after a stolen election (and yes it was stolen). I’ve no time for her and am enjoying seeing her shunned. Unelect her now.
Reading through this a THIRD time, and the one thing that stands out is how Goldberg treats the events of Jan 6 as a self-evident truth (ie. Trump's fanboys tried to stage a coup and EVERYBODY KNOWS IT.) This is of a piece with the weak, totally unprofessional style of 'journalism' that evolved during Trump's administration: you simply assert something yet to be proven as an incontrovertible fact, as if it is self-evident as the sunrise. EVERYBODY KNOWS Trump is a RACIST. EVERYBODY KNOWS Trump colluded with Russia. EVERYBODY KNOWS Trump called military vets suckers and losers. Etc.
Jonah is, like so many liberals, long on hysterical hyperbole and woefully short on facts. Trump obviously broke Goldberg.
Not a mention of the admission by Mollie Ball that the entire 2020 election was "fortified" to ensure Joe Biden was elected. Not a mention of the $400+ million that Zuckerberg threw into the vote counting process. This was a very incomplete and dishonest essay by Goldberg. History will not be kind to him as the Trump Derangement finally fades and allows writers to become clear-minded about what really happened in 2020.
I think JG's perception and analysis of reality is deeply flawed. The idea that political arguments (political is the type of argument he is clearly talking about) are supposed to persuade seems very naive to me. He seems like a middle-aged guy who wasn't born yesterday, so I am curious how many times in his life he has seen a person suddenly get persuaded into embracing a political belief that is contrary to their previously-held beliefs. I think most of the time, political arguments do nothing more than announce to other people your positions (or signal your virtue if you are on the far left). A friend may succeed in persuading me to buy a Tesla instead of a traditional sedan like Toyota Camry with technical facts, cost-benefit analysis, and various calculations and predictions, despite my aversion to Teslas. But changing my or anyone else's political beliefs through persuasion is extremely, extremely unlikely because political beliefs are based on values and not individual pieces of information. Values do not change quickly or easily. I have seen people change their political beliefs, but it was always a long process that took years, and it was based on what they had seen for themselves not based on what somebody told them.
As far as Trump having a lot of supporters due to a cult of personality, that belief is even more misguided. The vast majority of Trump's supporters like him not because of his personality, but because he is a walking antidote to the excesses of the far left. I think he is also a direct response or backlash to the Obama presidency and the media sycophancy that surrounded it.
Over at The Dispatch they in full hysteria mode just like the NYT and CNN, calling the entrapped protesters "domestic terrorists" and "fascists," who were executing a top-down plot by Steve Bannon and some law professor to destroy "our Democracy." Of course they refuse to acknowledge the elephant in the room -- i.e., the overwhelming evidence that the whole "insurrection" was stage managed by the FBI, not Trumpists.
Jonah's whole Trump-era schtick has been to present himself as the self-evidently voice of reason because he agrees with the uniparty "consensus" of establishment opinion. And then he proceeds to dismissively knock down a strawman version of evil "populism" by slinging labels and ad hominem attacks. He doesn't make the slightest effort to actually understand or grapple with inconvenient facts or the actual motivations of the other side -- in other words to "steel man," or at least accurately define, what he's against.
Instead he just labels everyone who supports Trumpy stuff as "idiots" and a "cult members." After all, why else would anyone doubt the wisdom and good faith of the political elites? They must be mentally ill or hypnotized by lies. QED. It goes without saying that Jonah is blind to the fact that he is a full-fledged hyper-partisan member of his own tribal cult of anti-Trumpism.
Beautifully written, sad and true.
You should spend more time actually learning from other people instead of judging them and assuming you KNOW what, and how “they all think”. You are quick to label people, claiming their facts are not real, while claiming your facts are. IRONY
(but I am far from this guy’s intelligence level, I am but a rube)
If our America has groups arguing with with facts that are fake, where are the actual facts hiding? IF ALL SIDES ARE ARGUING WITH LIES, WHERE IS THE TRUTH HIDING??
I feel you are too lazy to actually try and LEARN what real Americans (not elitist intellectuals). That, or you are afraid of what you might find, that you are wrong. And that terrifies someone like you. In my humble opinion.
What happened on Jan. 6th was not nearly as bad as what happened later. Pelosi's "committee" has imprisoned people without trial for a year, kept them in solitary confinement, and refused to allow them to post bail.
https://themadmommy.substack.com/p/dinner-over-january-6?r=b7p1n&utm_campaign=post&utm_medium=web
Just a couple of other historical events that Jan. 6th was not....Pearl Harbor and 9/11. Hyperbole thanks to Joe and Kamala!
I don’t know how many of you heard the interview with Liz Cheney that Beri did. I literally listen to it as one of the first things I had listened to about January 6. I remember that day cause I was on my way to a vacation and I literally missed all of it as did my wife. I gained a new respect for her because of all the different ways she tried to frame a question to get an actual answer. And she never did.
I learned nothing of the actual arguments from Liz Cheney it was just large platitudes and rally points basically. Truly one of the most frustrating conversations I’ve ever heard in my life. 🥺. I don’t blame Bari really. I feel like at least three or four times she tried to frame the question in a way to get an answer and just never could. I don’t know what else you do in a situation like that.
I’m sure son would say hold her feet to the fire and make her give an actual answer but I’m sure there’s a balancing act of respect you have to have while also trying to ask real things. But it was very disappointing
Mr. Goldberg, do not let your strong dislike of Trump to make you fail seeing the truth. For people to accept election results, especially ones they do not like, they have to trust the integrity of the results. When one party (Dems, which you appear to favor as a never-Trumper) is doing everything possible to decrease integrity, reasonable people will assume that they have a reason for it. Combine it with all the pieces we do know (suitcases of votes afterhours in Atlanta, destroying evidence in Pennsylvania, illegal election rule changes in Wisconsin and elsewhere, fighting tooth and nail against voter IDs, ...), and you get a Dem president which is not considered legally elected by 1/3 or more of the electorate.
“Trump acted like a wartime president, with the enemy being his domestic opponents.” I stopped reading there. That’s the point where I realized this article wasn’t worth my time. Are you serious? Trump says stuff. Often the stuff is incoherent (unlike all other politicians he doesn’t think before he opens his mouth). But you’re never left wondering what he thinks at that moment. This is what I can’t get over, or even understand about the never Trump crowd. The Democrats used the nation’s intelligence apparatus to spy on their political opponents. The Democrats ordered the raid on James O’Keefe and leaked privileged communications to the NYT. The Democrat attorney general of New York vowed to use the office to find something to prosecute Trump on. The Democrats for years said Trump was the agent of an adversarial power (talk about wartime rhetoric). For all the talk of Trump being a fascist, he let governors take the lead with Covid and didn’t send in the national guard to quell rioting in major cities. Either of those “emergencies” would have provided more than enough cover for a true fascist to take (by force) extraordinary powers that would never be relinquished. How do you think Hillary would have responded? Do you think there’s even a chance she wouldn’t have grown executive power exponentially? I used to have such respect for you. Liberal Fascism is still one of my top 3 books. But this hate Trump no matter what garbage……it’s sad. Maybe you’ve been an elite for so long that you are incapable of understanding the sentiment the rest of the country harbors toward you all with President Snow in the capital. Trump is not the cause of anything. He is a symptom. All he did was give voice to frustration and anger millions of American already had. Please see that. You give Trump WAY too much credit.
There are many good points made in this essay. However, there are also inaccurate statements as well as the seemingly irresistible urge to paint all Trump voters as these Trump fanatics. I did not vote for Trump in 2016 (nor did I vote for Hillary; feeling like the barrel was literally scraped for the two parties to put forth these candidates). While I didn't vote for him because a) I find him to be an abhorrent narcissist and b) he had absolutely no record for which one could find confidence in his capabilities. That being said, I understand why he won and people just want to focus on his base being a bunch of "deplorables" (a gross misstep with that term). Need I state the obvious...there is a HUGE lack of confidence in our government. This cannot be minimized. Term limits would put an end to much of this, but why would anyone in the senate or congress do something that would put boundaries on their own power?! He won BECAUSE of that. He wasn't a politician. This doesn't make his voters idiots (although some undoubtedly are); this make his voters, who are largely low-middle class, desperate. I won't get into my own personal situation of two college-educated people with four kids, clawing our way through life. However, when you work your butt off, and should have what is a decent living, but you get absolutely nothing but tax bills (no Obamacare, no college tuition grants, no health deductions even, and little to no savings as a result), it is frustrating! You look to your government and all you see are career politicians getting fat off of insider trading. Like any cult leader, did Trump take advantage of this vulnerability? Absolutely! But he also delivered; which led to me casting my vote for him in 2020. As for the "big lie", when there is this predisposition to mistrust government combined with voter "anomalies" which can be perceived as fraud, it is no comfort to hear that it "isn't 'widespread' fraud". I'm an accountant. Part of the initial work on an audit, is to test the integrity of the accounting software. If something is wrong, a $500 error can easily turn into a $500,000 error if not corrected. The same principle applies here. Investigate. Put people's minds at ease. This in conjunction with governors (like in my state of PA) changing voting rules with ZERO legislation passed, only adds to the corruption mentality. And for good reason. This created a perfect storm for what transpired on January 6th. I don't condone it. In fact, I wouldn't cross the street to shake hands with ANY politician, let alone stand out in the cold to listen to some blow hard cry about his bruised ego. Did Trump play into this to feel the love and feel like a "winner"? Absolutely. Did he encourage violence? Not that I saw. Did he step in early enough? No. But let's lay the blame at ALL of the feet of those responsible. While I agree with a previous poster that shot down the argument of "whataboutism", you can not deny that failure to act has consequences. If you let cities burn, federal monuments be toppled, policeman be attacked and their stations be burned to the ground, with no consequences, you have set the stage. As such, you can come to no other conclusion but that there is plenty of blame to go around.
Liz Cheney deserves everything she gets. Her and her war monger dad took many young mens’ and womens’ lives and loves away in support of their war profits and fake pretend standing on the alter of truth after a stolen election (and yes it was stolen). I’ve no time for her and am enjoying seeing her shunned. Unelect her now.
Reading through this a THIRD time, and the one thing that stands out is how Goldberg treats the events of Jan 6 as a self-evident truth (ie. Trump's fanboys tried to stage a coup and EVERYBODY KNOWS IT.) This is of a piece with the weak, totally unprofessional style of 'journalism' that evolved during Trump's administration: you simply assert something yet to be proven as an incontrovertible fact, as if it is self-evident as the sunrise. EVERYBODY KNOWS Trump is a RACIST. EVERYBODY KNOWS Trump colluded with Russia. EVERYBODY KNOWS Trump called military vets suckers and losers. Etc.
Jonah is, like so many liberals, long on hysterical hyperbole and woefully short on facts. Trump obviously broke Goldberg.
Not a mention of the admission by Mollie Ball that the entire 2020 election was "fortified" to ensure Joe Biden was elected. Not a mention of the $400+ million that Zuckerberg threw into the vote counting process. This was a very incomplete and dishonest essay by Goldberg. History will not be kind to him as the Trump Derangement finally fades and allows writers to become clear-minded about what really happened in 2020.
Trump Derangement Syndrome
What great writing!
I think JG's perception and analysis of reality is deeply flawed. The idea that political arguments (political is the type of argument he is clearly talking about) are supposed to persuade seems very naive to me. He seems like a middle-aged guy who wasn't born yesterday, so I am curious how many times in his life he has seen a person suddenly get persuaded into embracing a political belief that is contrary to their previously-held beliefs. I think most of the time, political arguments do nothing more than announce to other people your positions (or signal your virtue if you are on the far left). A friend may succeed in persuading me to buy a Tesla instead of a traditional sedan like Toyota Camry with technical facts, cost-benefit analysis, and various calculations and predictions, despite my aversion to Teslas. But changing my or anyone else's political beliefs through persuasion is extremely, extremely unlikely because political beliefs are based on values and not individual pieces of information. Values do not change quickly or easily. I have seen people change their political beliefs, but it was always a long process that took years, and it was based on what they had seen for themselves not based on what somebody told them.
As far as Trump having a lot of supporters due to a cult of personality, that belief is even more misguided. The vast majority of Trump's supporters like him not because of his personality, but because he is a walking antidote to the excesses of the far left. I think he is also a direct response or backlash to the Obama presidency and the media sycophancy that surrounded it.
Over at The Dispatch they in full hysteria mode just like the NYT and CNN, calling the entrapped protesters "domestic terrorists" and "fascists," who were executing a top-down plot by Steve Bannon and some law professor to destroy "our Democracy." Of course they refuse to acknowledge the elephant in the room -- i.e., the overwhelming evidence that the whole "insurrection" was stage managed by the FBI, not Trumpists.
https://www.revolver.news/2021/12/damning-new-details-massive-web-unindicted-operators-january-6/
Jonah's whole Trump-era schtick has been to present himself as the self-evidently voice of reason because he agrees with the uniparty "consensus" of establishment opinion. And then he proceeds to dismissively knock down a strawman version of evil "populism" by slinging labels and ad hominem attacks. He doesn't make the slightest effort to actually understand or grapple with inconvenient facts or the actual motivations of the other side -- in other words to "steel man," or at least accurately define, what he's against.
Instead he just labels everyone who supports Trumpy stuff as "idiots" and a "cult members." After all, why else would anyone doubt the wisdom and good faith of the political elites? They must be mentally ill or hypnotized by lies. QED. It goes without saying that Jonah is blind to the fact that he is a full-fledged hyper-partisan member of his own tribal cult of anti-Trumpism.