I agree Rita, or at least I did 15 years ago. I am saddened by what I have seen over the last 15 years from "the left". I've read 6 books in the last few months from left, right, and center authors. They have all validated my conclusion that those driving the left don't want co-existence, don't want compromise, and don't want debate. …
I agree Rita, or at least I did 15 years ago. I am saddened by what I have seen over the last 15 years from "the left". I've read 6 books in the last few months from left, right, and center authors. They have all validated my conclusion that those driving the left don't want co-existence, don't want compromise, and don't want debate. They want "the right" gone (forced underground) - literally. I know this group probably comprises only 20% of the left, but the remaining 80% remains quiet. If the right is to survive, and I believe the country is more "right" than "left" (but not by all that much - maybe 7-10%), it must recognize the war that has been thrust upon it and act accordingly. This dynamic has played out over and over again in the political arena. I've watched "leaders" like John Boehner, Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, and others continually give ground in hopes of a reciprocity that never happens. It reminds me of the "grand bargain" Reagan made with Tip O'Neill and the Dems never held up their end of the bargain. In fact, what ends up happening is the left takes every "give" from the right and only demands more. Chauvin was just found guilty and already the voices are loud: "it's not enough". I know we have more work to do on race relations (I've been the subject of black racism towards whites, by the way, so I know it goes all ways because everyone, and I mean everyone, has their own biases) but at least they could have said something like "it's a good step and let's see what happens from here". Cancel culture runs rampant and "the left" sees nothing wrong with it. If it goes much further, I will get REALLY ugly. It also is maddening to me to see that those driving the left seem to give no credit to the incredible good that the US, including its white citizens", have done for the world. No country in the history of the world has done more good for more people around the world for a longer period of time than has the US. And if you are looking for a model of "social progress", you can't do any better than the US. I was just talking to a friend of mine who spent 3 years in refugee camps for Vietnamese people who expressed the same sentiment. I have had many talks with a friend of mine who grew up hiding in the basement to sleep at night in Beirut due to the civil war who says the same thing. I grew up across the street from someone who was able to escape the Soviet Union and he was always astonished at how much credit the US was not given.
I am starting to see glimmers of the 80% of the left starting to speak up, with Bari, who I think is terrific, being a leading voice.
My own motto is "keep on hand open and extended, and the other back and clenched in a fist".
Neil, Thank you so much for your thoughtful and very enlightening response. Really! If there is one thing that I have learned in becoming more active in these dialogs, it is how very little I know about the depths and history of the politics of our country. I readily admit to my ignorance because I don't have to remain so.
You have given me more "food-for-thought", and I hear the conviction and frustration you are experiencing. I also agree that we all have biases; the blatant ones are easier to recognize and work against, but there are still those, unknown even to ourselves, that we must stand guard against.
I have often thought how much easier it would be if I could just pour my personal knowledge (experience) into the hearts and minds of others to help them see me as an individual trying just as hard as everyone else to find the right path.
Thank you for sharing about the personal relationships that have helped to inform your understanding of how others view the United States. I think those are such important and essential voices to add to the discussion. Only those who have lived through more politically difficult environments can speak to the experience of countries outside of our own.
My Mama is native Italian and came to the United States with my Dad (an American Soldier) and me after their marriage and my birth. She was a very young 19 years old and spoke no English at all.
Having Italian relatives was a wonderful cultural experience and really helped me to appreciate cultural differences while also understanding that, as human beings, we have many of the same challenges regardless of all else.
I also would not have been exposed to the hope that so many have for coming to America. My Zio (Uncle) always spoke dreamily of one day traveling to America. He passed before accomplishing that, but America is a destination so many talk about wanting to experience.
No, America is far from perfection (but I'm a believer that perfection only happens in heaven) but, like you, I feel disappointment in what seems to be a denial of the progress in race relations that we have made. That does not mean that we don't still have work to do, just as you said. But the ANGRY VOICES override and seem to ignore the progress that has been made. They seem more bent on revenge than true change. We should never stop trying to do better, because with human beings that is a never ending and needful goal.
There is an old saying, "If you give an inch they'll take a mile." And a similar one concerns "the slippery slope". I think both sides feel insecurity about how far the other will go given any amount of compromise. And it is a difficult issue due to the way we have seen some things go . For me, personally, the issue of Abortion which started out allowable only in the first trimester but has now come to an unthinkable progression, is a case in point.
But I don't want that to taint my belief that not all things would go that far. We are a diverse people who occupy the same homeland and who need to work for the good of all, striking a difficult balance.
I do agree that change, most commonly, comes from loud voices calling for needed changes. I have learned so much about how removed I am from certain societal issues that are unlikely to affect me. But, the beat-down and seeming lack of mercy toward those who don't fully agree, sometimes due to honest ignorance of the fullness of the issue, seems destructive and evil in it's intent. It's difficult to believe their methods will produce anything other than oppression and resentment. If the heart isn't changed it's unlikely to be a lasting change, and coercion is NOT the way.
But another thing that I have seen by becoming involved with BRAVER ANGELS, which led me to Bari and others, is that there ARE many people who voted differently from one another but are realizing how divisive the media was in encouraging our divide. They are now understanding how the chosen narrative, even within the media, had a hand in bringing us to this unbelievable and regretful place.
Those of us who truly love our country, imperfect as it is, and want to work for it's survival, must stand together against the extremes that will destroy the civility we have enjoyed in times past and can once again enjoy in even more enlightened ways.
Let us be cautious to recognize the true enemies of America's survival and march with those of sincere good will for the good of ALL Americans, different though we might be.
I agree Rita, or at least I did 15 years ago. I am saddened by what I have seen over the last 15 years from "the left". I've read 6 books in the last few months from left, right, and center authors. They have all validated my conclusion that those driving the left don't want co-existence, don't want compromise, and don't want debate. They want "the right" gone (forced underground) - literally. I know this group probably comprises only 20% of the left, but the remaining 80% remains quiet. If the right is to survive, and I believe the country is more "right" than "left" (but not by all that much - maybe 7-10%), it must recognize the war that has been thrust upon it and act accordingly. This dynamic has played out over and over again in the political arena. I've watched "leaders" like John Boehner, Mitt Romney, Paul Ryan, and others continually give ground in hopes of a reciprocity that never happens. It reminds me of the "grand bargain" Reagan made with Tip O'Neill and the Dems never held up their end of the bargain. In fact, what ends up happening is the left takes every "give" from the right and only demands more. Chauvin was just found guilty and already the voices are loud: "it's not enough". I know we have more work to do on race relations (I've been the subject of black racism towards whites, by the way, so I know it goes all ways because everyone, and I mean everyone, has their own biases) but at least they could have said something like "it's a good step and let's see what happens from here". Cancel culture runs rampant and "the left" sees nothing wrong with it. If it goes much further, I will get REALLY ugly. It also is maddening to me to see that those driving the left seem to give no credit to the incredible good that the US, including its white citizens", have done for the world. No country in the history of the world has done more good for more people around the world for a longer period of time than has the US. And if you are looking for a model of "social progress", you can't do any better than the US. I was just talking to a friend of mine who spent 3 years in refugee camps for Vietnamese people who expressed the same sentiment. I have had many talks with a friend of mine who grew up hiding in the basement to sleep at night in Beirut due to the civil war who says the same thing. I grew up across the street from someone who was able to escape the Soviet Union and he was always astonished at how much credit the US was not given.
I am starting to see glimmers of the 80% of the left starting to speak up, with Bari, who I think is terrific, being a leading voice.
My own motto is "keep on hand open and extended, and the other back and clenched in a fist".
Neil, Thank you so much for your thoughtful and very enlightening response. Really! If there is one thing that I have learned in becoming more active in these dialogs, it is how very little I know about the depths and history of the politics of our country. I readily admit to my ignorance because I don't have to remain so.
You have given me more "food-for-thought", and I hear the conviction and frustration you are experiencing. I also agree that we all have biases; the blatant ones are easier to recognize and work against, but there are still those, unknown even to ourselves, that we must stand guard against.
I have often thought how much easier it would be if I could just pour my personal knowledge (experience) into the hearts and minds of others to help them see me as an individual trying just as hard as everyone else to find the right path.
Thank you for sharing about the personal relationships that have helped to inform your understanding of how others view the United States. I think those are such important and essential voices to add to the discussion. Only those who have lived through more politically difficult environments can speak to the experience of countries outside of our own.
My Mama is native Italian and came to the United States with my Dad (an American Soldier) and me after their marriage and my birth. She was a very young 19 years old and spoke no English at all.
Having Italian relatives was a wonderful cultural experience and really helped me to appreciate cultural differences while also understanding that, as human beings, we have many of the same challenges regardless of all else.
I also would not have been exposed to the hope that so many have for coming to America. My Zio (Uncle) always spoke dreamily of one day traveling to America. He passed before accomplishing that, but America is a destination so many talk about wanting to experience.
No, America is far from perfection (but I'm a believer that perfection only happens in heaven) but, like you, I feel disappointment in what seems to be a denial of the progress in race relations that we have made. That does not mean that we don't still have work to do, just as you said. But the ANGRY VOICES override and seem to ignore the progress that has been made. They seem more bent on revenge than true change. We should never stop trying to do better, because with human beings that is a never ending and needful goal.
There is an old saying, "If you give an inch they'll take a mile." And a similar one concerns "the slippery slope". I think both sides feel insecurity about how far the other will go given any amount of compromise. And it is a difficult issue due to the way we have seen some things go . For me, personally, the issue of Abortion which started out allowable only in the first trimester but has now come to an unthinkable progression, is a case in point.
But I don't want that to taint my belief that not all things would go that far. We are a diverse people who occupy the same homeland and who need to work for the good of all, striking a difficult balance.
I do agree that change, most commonly, comes from loud voices calling for needed changes. I have learned so much about how removed I am from certain societal issues that are unlikely to affect me. But, the beat-down and seeming lack of mercy toward those who don't fully agree, sometimes due to honest ignorance of the fullness of the issue, seems destructive and evil in it's intent. It's difficult to believe their methods will produce anything other than oppression and resentment. If the heart isn't changed it's unlikely to be a lasting change, and coercion is NOT the way.
But another thing that I have seen by becoming involved with BRAVER ANGELS, which led me to Bari and others, is that there ARE many people who voted differently from one another but are realizing how divisive the media was in encouraging our divide. They are now understanding how the chosen narrative, even within the media, had a hand in bringing us to this unbelievable and regretful place.
Those of us who truly love our country, imperfect as it is, and want to work for it's survival, must stand together against the extremes that will destroy the civility we have enjoyed in times past and can once again enjoy in even more enlightened ways.
Let us be cautious to recognize the true enemies of America's survival and march with those of sincere good will for the good of ALL Americans, different though we might be.
Nicely done. Thanks.
Thank you, Neil.