A few weeks ago, we had Sarah Longwell and David French, two prominent conservatives, on Honestly to explain why they’re supporting Vice President Kamala Harris this presidential election.
I really needed this episode. All three guests made fantastic cases for their choices, and I'll definitely be pondering them for the next few days!
I've been a dissalussioned conservative since 2020, and have been wildly flip flopping between voting for Trump, or leaving the presidential boxes blank. My first election was 2016, and I hate that I've had the same trash presidential ticket for my whole voting life. I hate how Trump's words and rhetoric has lowered our standards. He has corrupted many of the kind Christians I grew up with, because it suddenly became more important to sound like Trump than to sound like God. His character is also the ONLY reason Biden or Kamala looks even remotely viable to people (Vance and Waltz's civil debate proves who the root of the problem is imo). That's not even mentioning Janurary 6th, which I wish Bari asked more questions about. While most conservatives I know are willing to brush it off as a tiny bar fight (or say Trump had nothing to do with it), I can't bring myself to do either. If Obama, Biden, or another Democrat candidate acted like he did that day, conservatives wouldn't be ignoring it. So why should I be okay with it, just because he's "our guy?" I've NEVER happily voted for Trump, and don't know if I can make myself do it again after what I saw that day. Shabbos says I don't have to defend indefensible words, but isn't that exactly what voting for Trump will do?
Then again, now that it's Kamala on the ticket instead of Biden, I'm not sure if can afford to vote with my conscience. I'm terrified of a Kamala presidency, especially one that can last for two terms. I'm hate how we're all supposed to pretend she's Obama 2.0, when everyone hated her 5 minutes ago. She didn't even make through the first debate in 2020! Her response to Hurricane Helene also shows she won't be able to handle anything real. I'm the only one I know who is struggling with this so much (I live in Indiana, who's always picked Trump)--and can't decide if that makes me a nuanced American, or a weak one.
Blows me away that people are still supporting Ukraine. I proudly say abandon them. If France and the uk wants to keep supporting them have at it. Most Americans not affiliated with universities could not care less about Ukraine.
I have grown up in a liberal bubble. Most of my friends are liberal. We have discussed and agreed on the importance of staunchly supporting Israel and all Jews, the ridiculousness of allowing kids to transition before their brains have fully developed, the need to protect female athletes from unfairly having to compete and share locker rooms with transgender males, the need to combat the overreach of DEI and identity politics, and the importance of not allowing censorship to continue to gain traction in America. And yet, every one of them is voting for Kamala Harris. WTF!
I await for the the conversation to start, from Shaun, that he states he so wants to participate in. And Smarticat, who seems to like to converse on opinions only and include no facts.
That is not what I posted. It had to do with previous posts by Shaun who wanted a conversation but refused to talk facts. I have no idea what you are posting about.
I think its only hard to find prominent people that are hesitant to say they are voting for Trump. Given how ideologically homogenous the “elites” are in our country. Everyday people don’t have as much of a risk to their public reputation.
It also resonates with me, sorry i’m bad with names, what the Jewish person said about feeling betrayed. I was a life long Democrat. I never once voted Republican before 2020. Then the world turned against me. Luckily, I was out of Law Enforcement at the time but I was left wondering what I risked my life for? To be called racist by a bunch of elitist brats? Suddenly, in 2020 Tucker Carlson was the only person in legacy media telling the truth about the riots. I’m not a fan of his currently but it stood out to me which political group was willing to tel the truth.
It reminds me of Nellie’s book. I think most Democrats just stay in their tribe until the woke progressives turn on them. White men got pushed right first, then cops, then Asians, and now Jews. Its head spinning how fast the anti-racism / equity people will start treating you like a second class citizen.
I’m sure those Democrats voting for Trump aren’t an outlier, just like the numbers of Republicans who will vote for Harris this year aren’t going to be an outlier. People vote or don’t vote for many different reasons. Hey, had it been a Haley vs Biden race, I too would have crossed the party line, but I can never bring myself to vote for a man who won’t concede elections he loses. No tax cut is worth that.
Democrats have been contesting elections for years. As far as I can see, Biden is president. I assume, unlike the speakers on this podcast, the Democratic policies have not effected you
There’s never been another president who has so systematically and consistently undermined trust in the electoral process as Trump has. To pretend otherwise is just dishonest. Even Nixon, who had more ground than anyone to contest the results of the 1960 election because of fraud in Illinois, accepted defeat and conceded.
Even now, Trump won’t concede that he lost in 2020 and we’ve had to watch an otherwise intelligent guy like Vance twist himself into pretzels trying to defend an indefensible lie. Worst of all, Trump already sowing doubt about the outcome of the 2024 election - unless he wins of course, in which case it would be the most perfect, beautiful election ever!
This isn’t normal, it’s dangerous and should never been dismissed. Nothing good comes out of a society where trust in the political process and institutions is destroyed. Maybe it takes an immigrant like me who has lived in another country where institutions weren’t as strong to see the obvious danger in what Trump is doing.
And I have many issues with the left. I changed my party affiliation as a result of the gaslighting around Biden’s capacity to serve. I abhor the race and identify essentialism that has become dogma in many progressive circles. I find the antisemitism since October 7th utterly appalling. So yes, I agree with a lot of what these three people said. Where we disagree is on the solution.
None of those issues will get better if Trump wins. Quite the contrary - Trump will be the gift that keeps giving new life and power to the extremists on the left, and moderates in my former party will be forced to be quiet, less they be seen as insufficiently “resisting”. The far left and MAGA feed each other. They need each other to exist and have a voice. Most Americans aren’t progressive, nor are they MAGA. These are minority voices that have been given a megaphone to set the agenda.
If you want extremes to have a diminishing influence in both parties, as I do, then vote for people who won’t empower them. In this election, the choice for me is quite clear.
I absolutely understand your feelings about Trump. But unless I misunderstood, you plan to vote for Kamala Harris. How does rewarding the party that you rightfully admit gaslit America about Biden’s competence and destroyed the foundation of America’s primary system by coronating their candidate without a single vote earned in a state primary help the situation? For me, the fact that Donald Trump has actually run roughshod over the Republican elites (and the legacy media) in three primary runs gives me hope that at least the Republican primaries aren’t rigged and the people have spoken, whether I like the outcome or not. From my perspective, the Democrat primaries have been rigged since at least 2008 - Obama surprised Hillary when the powers that be discovered he was “articulate, bright, and clean.” In 2016 and 2020, it looked like Bernie Sanders would win the Democrat presidential primary until the elites forced the other Dem candidates to coalesce around Hillary and Joe, respectively. IMHO, through their actions, the Democrats have proven they love power over country; the ends justify the means.
A much better interview than the awful French/Longwell interview from a few weeks back. Great viewpoints from Shaun, Maud, and Shabbos. This is the precisely the type of both-sides argument I want to hear: balanced and well-reasoned.
I've just started listening to this podcast, but already I feel great relief in that I expect to hear legitimate thought processes by people who have truly listened to what each side is saying. The Republicans for Harris episode was a disappointment - pure emotional reaction from 2 people who clearly never actually listened or watched any of the more reasonable formats Trump participates in (any one of the many interviews he's done over the past months with a more friendly interviewer would be a good start). Most people (and I'd suggest virtually all Democrats) only watch sound bites on MSM or one of the highly televised (again, MSM) debates or press conferences where Trump is being aggressively questioned and usually outright attacked, which then does not bring out his best side.
These 3 Democrats have obviously been personally affected by Democrat policy and "think" - -and have more carefully listened to DJT policy/platform. If I'm wrong about this, I'll post an update.
I'm just so tired of hearing all the emotional arguments against DJT from people who've never taken the time to actually hear what he stands for.
The issue that bothers me the most is when Democrats express their great fear that DJT is out to be a "dictator"! I'd love for someone, anyone, to just walk me through that scenario. Show me where, in the whole of history, someone has suddenly become a dictator at 78 y/o!! Show me where, in the whole of history, someone has become a dictator without military power on his/her side! Show me someone who has never even been in politics for decades who does that. He has the potential of 4 more years - he has made that statement many times and it is just a fact. The "dictator" fear mongering is laughable and the fact that otherwise seemingly intelligent people talk about it is beyond my comprehension. Only someone processing everything emotionally and not logically could come up with that as a concern.
I could only stomach 15 mins of David and Sarah, it was nauseating. If you believe that the role of president, requires someone with either high moral character or the appearance of it,. So be it, Trump should be disqualified. But if you think about foreign, border and economic policy then you have two 4 yr periods to choose from. Why do people start twisting themselves into pretzels to come up with things that Trump was not.
He was not a dictator, he did not go after his opponents using the courts, like they have done to him. There were no new wars under his leadership. He starved the Iranians of funding, significantly reducing major terror attacks. The border was far more secure, to the tune of 10-15mm illegal migrants currently. He made a concerted effort to tell our allies that they need to spend more on their own defense, instead of piggy backing on US tax payers. He asked the most logical questions, why do allies send billions to an adversary in Russia, when they could get those same commodities from the US and other allied countries. Why allow our manufacturing base to be eroded and outsourced to China, where they will eventually leapfrog us. They have already done so with EVs, they could eventually do it with so many things.
Kamala using her own words is going to be more of the same unpopular Biden presidency. I've argued many times with those who hate Trump. The fact remains that if the Biden/Harris administration was even remotely competent, either of them would running away with this race despite Biden being senile or Harris being vacuous and empty.
Gad Saad did a great commentary on why people can't see what is obvious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KnLElyF2hM I feel like Bari can't see what her party has done. I couldn't believe when she said how can you vote for Trump when he said the comments about what you could do to a women if you are famous. I bet she voted for both Clintons and had no problem with his sexual attacks on women.
Trump made that comment years ago not when he was President. As one of the speakers said there was terrible behavior from JFK and Clinton a whose wife went after the victims.
Most upsetting was not understanding Biden and Harris will be way worse saying Israel has right to defend but pressure never to win. Israelis fed up and only by ignoring Biden were they able to go on offense. Would have liked more discussion how Harris Muslim Team loaded w anti Zionists and again she outrageously accused Israel of causing non existent FAMINE IN GAZA despite UN Report to the contrary
The dictator fear mongering is completely unfounded. People forget he was already president for four years and nothing happened. It's not like there was some old law he forgot to abuse and he suddenly rediscovered so now "he will really become a dictator". Check and balances worked and will work again if such unlikely thing were to happen.
...on the other hand, I find it more worrying Kamala imposing some misinformation regime against free speech as she and Tim have already openly supported.
Honestly (pardon the pun), this whole discussion is a fabulous example of critical thought which is always as nuanced as a meaningful candidate’s political position. I have to now go back and read the logic of Republicans for Harris. Until now I thought I understood the objection of conservatives to Trump but perhaps their view’s are equally refined and I only understand a piece of the story.
The Free Press brings me back to my high school days where history class required debate on seminal issues of the past. I remember distinctly defending the Southern case for secession and the why the American revolution was bad idea. Of course those lessons had the benefit of 20/20 hindsight while the issues contained here remain in the balance. Hopefully traditional/classical liberalism (critical thinking) is more than fifth century monks hand copying scripture and preserving the lessons of antiquity in the Dark Ages.
"but I’d guess that there are more who are just not willing to speak up because of the stigma."
Hi Bari! I think you missed a bit on this sentence... it should read "but I’d guess that there are more who are just not willing to speak up because of the stigma that I, and pretty much everyone I know helped to create, foment and encourage with unrelenting ferocity for nearly an entire decade."
And people on your pathetic site wonder why I am implacable!
The Democratic Party Rehabilitation Project... DELENDA EST!
The question is, how did this podcast change Bari? If at all?
I really needed this episode. All three guests made fantastic cases for their choices, and I'll definitely be pondering them for the next few days!
I've been a dissalussioned conservative since 2020, and have been wildly flip flopping between voting for Trump, or leaving the presidential boxes blank. My first election was 2016, and I hate that I've had the same trash presidential ticket for my whole voting life. I hate how Trump's words and rhetoric has lowered our standards. He has corrupted many of the kind Christians I grew up with, because it suddenly became more important to sound like Trump than to sound like God. His character is also the ONLY reason Biden or Kamala looks even remotely viable to people (Vance and Waltz's civil debate proves who the root of the problem is imo). That's not even mentioning Janurary 6th, which I wish Bari asked more questions about. While most conservatives I know are willing to brush it off as a tiny bar fight (or say Trump had nothing to do with it), I can't bring myself to do either. If Obama, Biden, or another Democrat candidate acted like he did that day, conservatives wouldn't be ignoring it. So why should I be okay with it, just because he's "our guy?" I've NEVER happily voted for Trump, and don't know if I can make myself do it again after what I saw that day. Shabbos says I don't have to defend indefensible words, but isn't that exactly what voting for Trump will do?
Then again, now that it's Kamala on the ticket instead of Biden, I'm not sure if can afford to vote with my conscience. I'm terrified of a Kamala presidency, especially one that can last for two terms. I'm hate how we're all supposed to pretend she's Obama 2.0, when everyone hated her 5 minutes ago. She didn't even make through the first debate in 2020! Her response to Hurricane Helene also shows she won't be able to handle anything real. I'm the only one I know who is struggling with this so much (I live in Indiana, who's always picked Trump)--and can't decide if that makes me a nuanced American, or a weak one.
Literally anyone else for 2028 please? 😵💫
Blows me away that people are still supporting Ukraine. I proudly say abandon them. If France and the uk wants to keep supporting them have at it. Most Americans not affiliated with universities could not care less about Ukraine.
I have grown up in a liberal bubble. Most of my friends are liberal. We have discussed and agreed on the importance of staunchly supporting Israel and all Jews, the ridiculousness of allowing kids to transition before their brains have fully developed, the need to protect female athletes from unfairly having to compete and share locker rooms with transgender males, the need to combat the overreach of DEI and identity politics, and the importance of not allowing censorship to continue to gain traction in America. And yet, every one of them is voting for Kamala Harris. WTF!
I await for the the conversation to start, from Shaun, that he states he so wants to participate in. And Smarticat, who seems to like to converse on opinions only and include no facts.
That you don't like the facts presented doesn't mean there were no facts. This episode was a shock full of facts.
That is not what I posted. It had to do with previous posts by Shaun who wanted a conversation but refused to talk facts. I have no idea what you are posting about.
I think its only hard to find prominent people that are hesitant to say they are voting for Trump. Given how ideologically homogenous the “elites” are in our country. Everyday people don’t have as much of a risk to their public reputation.
It also resonates with me, sorry i’m bad with names, what the Jewish person said about feeling betrayed. I was a life long Democrat. I never once voted Republican before 2020. Then the world turned against me. Luckily, I was out of Law Enforcement at the time but I was left wondering what I risked my life for? To be called racist by a bunch of elitist brats? Suddenly, in 2020 Tucker Carlson was the only person in legacy media telling the truth about the riots. I’m not a fan of his currently but it stood out to me which political group was willing to tel the truth.
It reminds me of Nellie’s book. I think most Democrats just stay in their tribe until the woke progressives turn on them. White men got pushed right first, then cops, then Asians, and now Jews. Its head spinning how fast the anti-racism / equity people will start treating you like a second class citizen.
It sounds so good to listen to articulate people!
Hoping we get a third party episode. Couldn’t vote for either!
I’m sure those Democrats voting for Trump aren’t an outlier, just like the numbers of Republicans who will vote for Harris this year aren’t going to be an outlier. People vote or don’t vote for many different reasons. Hey, had it been a Haley vs Biden race, I too would have crossed the party line, but I can never bring myself to vote for a man who won’t concede elections he loses. No tax cut is worth that.
Democrats have been contesting elections for years. As far as I can see, Biden is president. I assume, unlike the speakers on this podcast, the Democratic policies have not effected you
There’s never been another president who has so systematically and consistently undermined trust in the electoral process as Trump has. To pretend otherwise is just dishonest. Even Nixon, who had more ground than anyone to contest the results of the 1960 election because of fraud in Illinois, accepted defeat and conceded.
Even now, Trump won’t concede that he lost in 2020 and we’ve had to watch an otherwise intelligent guy like Vance twist himself into pretzels trying to defend an indefensible lie. Worst of all, Trump already sowing doubt about the outcome of the 2024 election - unless he wins of course, in which case it would be the most perfect, beautiful election ever!
This isn’t normal, it’s dangerous and should never been dismissed. Nothing good comes out of a society where trust in the political process and institutions is destroyed. Maybe it takes an immigrant like me who has lived in another country where institutions weren’t as strong to see the obvious danger in what Trump is doing.
And I have many issues with the left. I changed my party affiliation as a result of the gaslighting around Biden’s capacity to serve. I abhor the race and identify essentialism that has become dogma in many progressive circles. I find the antisemitism since October 7th utterly appalling. So yes, I agree with a lot of what these three people said. Where we disagree is on the solution.
None of those issues will get better if Trump wins. Quite the contrary - Trump will be the gift that keeps giving new life and power to the extremists on the left, and moderates in my former party will be forced to be quiet, less they be seen as insufficiently “resisting”. The far left and MAGA feed each other. They need each other to exist and have a voice. Most Americans aren’t progressive, nor are they MAGA. These are minority voices that have been given a megaphone to set the agenda.
If you want extremes to have a diminishing influence in both parties, as I do, then vote for people who won’t empower them. In this election, the choice for me is quite clear.
I absolutely understand your feelings about Trump. But unless I misunderstood, you plan to vote for Kamala Harris. How does rewarding the party that you rightfully admit gaslit America about Biden’s competence and destroyed the foundation of America’s primary system by coronating their candidate without a single vote earned in a state primary help the situation? For me, the fact that Donald Trump has actually run roughshod over the Republican elites (and the legacy media) in three primary runs gives me hope that at least the Republican primaries aren’t rigged and the people have spoken, whether I like the outcome or not. From my perspective, the Democrat primaries have been rigged since at least 2008 - Obama surprised Hillary when the powers that be discovered he was “articulate, bright, and clean.” In 2016 and 2020, it looked like Bernie Sanders would win the Democrat presidential primary until the elites forced the other Dem candidates to coalesce around Hillary and Joe, respectively. IMHO, through their actions, the Democrats have proven they love power over country; the ends justify the means.
A much better interview than the awful French/Longwell interview from a few weeks back. Great viewpoints from Shaun, Maud, and Shabbos. This is the precisely the type of both-sides argument I want to hear: balanced and well-reasoned.
I've been a David French listener for a long time, but definetely lost some respect for him after he endorsed Kamala.
I've just started listening to this podcast, but already I feel great relief in that I expect to hear legitimate thought processes by people who have truly listened to what each side is saying. The Republicans for Harris episode was a disappointment - pure emotional reaction from 2 people who clearly never actually listened or watched any of the more reasonable formats Trump participates in (any one of the many interviews he's done over the past months with a more friendly interviewer would be a good start). Most people (and I'd suggest virtually all Democrats) only watch sound bites on MSM or one of the highly televised (again, MSM) debates or press conferences where Trump is being aggressively questioned and usually outright attacked, which then does not bring out his best side.
These 3 Democrats have obviously been personally affected by Democrat policy and "think" - -and have more carefully listened to DJT policy/platform. If I'm wrong about this, I'll post an update.
I'm just so tired of hearing all the emotional arguments against DJT from people who've never taken the time to actually hear what he stands for.
The issue that bothers me the most is when Democrats express their great fear that DJT is out to be a "dictator"! I'd love for someone, anyone, to just walk me through that scenario. Show me where, in the whole of history, someone has suddenly become a dictator at 78 y/o!! Show me where, in the whole of history, someone has become a dictator without military power on his/her side! Show me someone who has never even been in politics for decades who does that. He has the potential of 4 more years - he has made that statement many times and it is just a fact. The "dictator" fear mongering is laughable and the fact that otherwise seemingly intelligent people talk about it is beyond my comprehension. Only someone processing everything emotionally and not logically could come up with that as a concern.
I could only stomach 15 mins of David and Sarah, it was nauseating. If you believe that the role of president, requires someone with either high moral character or the appearance of it,. So be it, Trump should be disqualified. But if you think about foreign, border and economic policy then you have two 4 yr periods to choose from. Why do people start twisting themselves into pretzels to come up with things that Trump was not.
He was not a dictator, he did not go after his opponents using the courts, like they have done to him. There were no new wars under his leadership. He starved the Iranians of funding, significantly reducing major terror attacks. The border was far more secure, to the tune of 10-15mm illegal migrants currently. He made a concerted effort to tell our allies that they need to spend more on their own defense, instead of piggy backing on US tax payers. He asked the most logical questions, why do allies send billions to an adversary in Russia, when they could get those same commodities from the US and other allied countries. Why allow our manufacturing base to be eroded and outsourced to China, where they will eventually leapfrog us. They have already done so with EVs, they could eventually do it with so many things.
Kamala using her own words is going to be more of the same unpopular Biden presidency. I've argued many times with those who hate Trump. The fact remains that if the Biden/Harris administration was even remotely competent, either of them would running away with this race despite Biden being senile or Harris being vacuous and empty.
Gad Saad did a great commentary on why people can't see what is obvious. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1KnLElyF2hM I feel like Bari can't see what her party has done. I couldn't believe when she said how can you vote for Trump when he said the comments about what you could do to a women if you are famous. I bet she voted for both Clintons and had no problem with his sexual attacks on women.
Trump made that comment years ago not when he was President. As one of the speakers said there was terrible behavior from JFK and Clinton a whose wife went after the victims.
Most upsetting was not understanding Biden and Harris will be way worse saying Israel has right to defend but pressure never to win. Israelis fed up and only by ignoring Biden were they able to go on offense. Would have liked more discussion how Harris Muslim Team loaded w anti Zionists and again she outrageously accused Israel of causing non existent FAMINE IN GAZA despite UN Report to the contrary
The dictator fear mongering is completely unfounded. People forget he was already president for four years and nothing happened. It's not like there was some old law he forgot to abuse and he suddenly rediscovered so now "he will really become a dictator". Check and balances worked and will work again if such unlikely thing were to happen.
...on the other hand, I find it more worrying Kamala imposing some misinformation regime against free speech as she and Tim have already openly supported.
Nothing happened? Nothing happened if you live in a trumpian bubble.
Exactly
Honestly (pardon the pun), this whole discussion is a fabulous example of critical thought which is always as nuanced as a meaningful candidate’s political position. I have to now go back and read the logic of Republicans for Harris. Until now I thought I understood the objection of conservatives to Trump but perhaps their view’s are equally refined and I only understand a piece of the story.
The Free Press brings me back to my high school days where history class required debate on seminal issues of the past. I remember distinctly defending the Southern case for secession and the why the American revolution was bad idea. Of course those lessons had the benefit of 20/20 hindsight while the issues contained here remain in the balance. Hopefully traditional/classical liberalism (critical thinking) is more than fifth century monks hand copying scripture and preserving the lessons of antiquity in the Dark Ages.
"but I’d guess that there are more who are just not willing to speak up because of the stigma."
Hi Bari! I think you missed a bit on this sentence... it should read "but I’d guess that there are more who are just not willing to speak up because of the stigma that I, and pretty much everyone I know helped to create, foment and encourage with unrelenting ferocity for nearly an entire decade."
And people on your pathetic site wonder why I am implacable!
The Democratic Party Rehabilitation Project... DELENDA EST!
Could have asked Bill Ackman or Silicon Valley types openly supporting Trump