You can certainly debate what we should do as kind people to help others. However, letting millions of unvetted people into our country is not going to look terribly kind when the terrorism starts.
We can't turn water into wine, or divide bread for a few into millions. There is a limit to what we can absorb. We have passed that number. It's time to stop it.
Statements like "immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than U.S.-born" are frequently repeated with a level of confidense usually associated with laws of physics.
So is it true and how do we know?
Well... neither the FBI's Uniform Crime Reporting System (UCR) nor its replacement the National Incident Based Reporting System (NIBRS) tracks whether the offender is a citizen, a legal immigrant or an illegal immitrant. So there is no hard data.
Rather, the notion is based on a single poorly designed and implemented study by the Texas Prison system. So how did Texas determine whether a prisoner is an illegal immigrant or not? Simple, they ran their fingerprints against the database of migrant encounters held by the federal Department of Homeland Security (DHS).
So if a migrant was not fingerprinted by DHS, they were considered a U.S. citizen, thereby overcounting residents and undercounting illegal migrants.
The whole notion defies simple reason and basic criminlogy. The demographics of illegal immigrants shifts toward males in their late teen through early middle age, a cohort that by the virtue of both gender and age is over-represented in criminal behavior.
Then there is the failure to report crime among migrant groups....
To know the rate of criminality you would need to know how many undocumented immigrants there were in the United States which by definition is a difficult number to obtain.
Likewise, it woud be difficult to claim that they are more likely to commit crimes.
There might be other factors that could theoretically affect policy. Is there a difference between those who overstay their visa vs sneak in across the border, those from Venezuela, Mexico, Haiti, etc..? By definition these statistics all seem like they would be difficult to pin down.
I wish FP would publish transcripts of these conversations. I don't have time to listen to linear content on a podcast. I can read it in 30 seconds. Why spend 30 minutes or an hour?
This would not be an issue if a few thousand people Iwere crossing the border illegally each year. But it is millions. Immigration is a good thing for our country, but it must be controlled and limited. We must know who is entering the country, and stop the slave traders, drug smugglers, terrorists and criminals. So no one is admitted without thorough vetting. And we must allow in only those who will contribute, no more than we can absorb with jobs, healthcare when needed and schools for the children. The current policy -- anyone can claim asylum and be admitted for years, then not show up for final deportation and stay for more years (and there are so many the border patrol officers are all filling out paperwork instead of stopping the cartels) -- is a disaster.
99.99% of asylum claims are bogus, I mean how does someone from Mexico compare to someone in Burma or Darfur, they don't. We are full to overflowing. Wages for low income workers have been flat to decreasing. There's a housing shortage.
If we are going to admit people, admit highly educated Asians, what good do more agricultural workers do for us, drive down wages that's all. They end up working the trades and all working class jobs.
We need e verify, and zero tolerance, end any and all parole programs. Send people like that immigration lawyer back with them.
The woman who said that the Immigration and Nationality Act has not been amended since 1986 is wrong. There was an amendment in 1990 (IMMACT90) which actually increased the number of immigrant visas available each Fiscal Year, and IRAIIRA in 1996, which is where her issue is, since it defined "unlawful presence" and penalties for remaining unlawfully in the United States (unlawful for more than one year is a 10 year bar if you depart the U.S.). She would have been better off under the pre 1996 law, because you could just hang out in the U.S. and then travel to a Consulate for your immigrant visa, no harm no foul, or pay a $1,000 penalty fee under Section 245i and adjust status without ever having to leave the U.S. Her problem is if she leaves, she's subjecting herself to the 10 year bar.
What is an invasion? Putin has invaded and destroyed lots of Ukraine with a few hundred thousand soldier. Not millions. Many are now conscripts whose training was inadequate at best. An invasion is happening when millions are coming across your border by illegal means and we don't know who or what many of them are. Or even a few. It took only 12 to cause 9/11.
Processing becomes a non issue when no more are crossing the border illegally. Our current law enforcement has groups dedicated to finding and incarcerating citizens who have committed crimes. Yet that is wrong to do for illegals who have committed the same or worse crimes? Once the border is shut down, determining this country's needs of who we want to let in becomes easier. When those on the legal waiting list are all let in, then it is time to worry about those who did not that maybe could stay. DACA should have an easier path to citizenship. Many make this a much tougher issue than it needs to be. As long as even folks like these keep making it unnecessarily complicated, the problems will not get solved. You are helping no one and hurting every one. If illegals are not allowed in and they end up in Mexico, that would be in accordance with our laws and not our problem. Is Mexico not an improvement from where they come from? Humane is allowing those in who you can take care of without denying your own citizens what this country is meant to provide them. Not sneaking them in, in planes or bus rides in the middle of the night and just dropping them off any where, where it seems convenient. The biden administration is not a humane administration. 300,00 children missing is far worse than the "we use to rip families apart" miss information. I see nothing useful coming our of this group. Which is not meant as a slam but a realization of the problem and how it will not get solved.
I appreciate these debates. The FP showing that we CAN sit down and have these really hard discussions. Having said that, while I truly FEEL for those sitting in the panel who are in legal limbo in this country, we do not run this country on feelings. We run it on laws. Circumventing the laws is what has landed us in the chaos that we are living in now. It is legal to seek asylum, but what does that mean? These people are patently advocating for endless, eternal, open immigration. Why have a border? Why have laws? Every time the pro illegal immigration advocates and activists claim that undocumented immigrants do not qualify for tax funded, social services and other state and federal moneys, they know they are engaging in disingenuous and misleading rhetoric. They don’t, but most have children once established here, and this makes them eligible for 18 years. The ones that become eligible this way, do claim those rights. In addition, all those who request asylum qualify for both private and government stipends and in some states, mandated housing/ shelter. Thus, come up with better arguments to justify their stays, which rightfully or not, Americans are increasingly resenting especially in the wake of the rough economy and housing crisis. Finally, but important too, the Tijuana girl justifying her father’s crossing the border illegally over escaping violence was not completely honest (or maybe she’s genuinely unaware). It is very rare for the corrupted police or other violent organizations to randomly “kidnap” a man, especially in the time frame that this might have happened. If it does happen, the victim is either wealthy or a criminal. So which one was it. One allows you to freely and comfortably stay where you were, the other deserves none of my sympathy. I know this first hand as a Tijuana girl myself. 🤷🏻♀️
All of the above ignores, the elephant in the room. How many migrants a year, or a decade, are Americans suppose to absorb? What is the number? If 10 million migrants in 4 years, is followed by another 10 million in the next 4 years, Biden/Harris will have created a migrant only, landless 51rst state, bigger than 48 other US states.
Reuters, hardly a bastion and right wing think, has polling showing 750 million to 1 billion world residents, would move to the US , if they could reside here.. For the first time in history, a plane ticket costing a couple of thousands dollars, will place migrants, from anywhere in the world, within a day's walk of US residency.
Lacking sufficient, financial resources housing, healthcare or speciality education, the migrants arrive, mainly, as beasts of burden. Purposefully imported to make the lives of richer Americans more pleasant, and poor Americans more compliant, as their standard of living declines, and they become more government dependent.
The con produces cheap labor for business owners, future Dem voters, while sticking US taxpayers with the tab, and exploiting migrants like farm animals. With a straight face, Dems brag Springfield, Ohio provides good jobs for Haitians, at $12-$15 an hour. At least cattle generally have a barn, fresh water and regular meals. $15 an hour will never produce that in a high cost of living country, like the US.
If the caste system being foisted on Americans, produced desirable living conditions, Mumbai would have a migration problem, not Texas. The current system works only for morally challenged business owners, and Dem politicians . The rest of the US should just say no.
We debate about the hordes of Biden Harris illegals. But they’re having kids. And due to our stupid laws, those kids are US citizens. Every illegal knows this game. And in 18 years, even if none of their parents get citizenship, they’re voting. Democrats want legions of govt dependents voting for more more more “services.”
Great discussion. Ben, I wish you would/could have shelved the Fentanyl issue once it was mostly agreed that Fentanyl is crossing into America via 95% Americans. Also, the current immigration debacle should have been separated from the Dreamers and DACHA-it became a repeating loop. That aside, this was an excellent both/all sides discussion. I learned a lot. Ben, I love you but your position and political persuasion was apparent. The group was gutsy and smart. Loved them.
The fentanyl is produced in Mexico, and while it may arrive via American mules, in much of the US, the rest of distribution is controlled entirely by illegal migrants. The refusal of Harris to charge SF drug dealers with felonies, so they could not be deported, resulted in some of the cheapest drugs in the country, in the most expensive city, in the US.
It turns out , dope dealers like to work, where they will never be incarcerated. So supplies rise, prices drop, and use goes thru the roof. Soon the streets are covered in tents, needles and human waste. Give Harris the opportunity, soon every US neighborhood , will look like SF, minus the ocean views.
You can certainly debate what we should do as kind people to help others. However, letting millions of unvetted people into our country is not going to look terribly kind when the terrorism starts.
We don’t owe the people of other countries a living … go back and change the country you came from
We can't turn water into wine, or divide bread for a few into millions. There is a limit to what we can absorb. We have passed that number. It's time to stop it.
Statements like "immigrants are less likely to commit crimes than U.S.-born" are frequently repeated with a level of confidense usually associated with laws of physics.
So is it true and how do we know?
Well... neither the FBI's Uniform Crime Reporting System (UCR) nor its replacement the National Incident Based Reporting System (NIBRS) tracks whether the offender is a citizen, a legal immigrant or an illegal immitrant. So there is no hard data.
Rather, the notion is based on a single poorly designed and implemented study by the Texas Prison system. So how did Texas determine whether a prisoner is an illegal immigrant or not? Simple, they ran their fingerprints against the database of migrant encounters held by the federal Department of Homeland Security (DHS).
So if a migrant was not fingerprinted by DHS, they were considered a U.S. citizen, thereby overcounting residents and undercounting illegal migrants.
The whole notion defies simple reason and basic criminlogy. The demographics of illegal immigrants shifts toward males in their late teen through early middle age, a cohort that by the virtue of both gender and age is over-represented in criminal behavior.
Then there is the failure to report crime among migrant groups....
To know the rate of criminality you would need to know how many undocumented immigrants there were in the United States which by definition is a difficult number to obtain.
Likewise, it woud be difficult to claim that they are more likely to commit crimes.
There might be other factors that could theoretically affect policy. Is there a difference between those who overstay their visa vs sneak in across the border, those from Venezuela, Mexico, Haiti, etc..? By definition these statistics all seem like they would be difficult to pin down.
So true. And of course, if those "US-born" are blacks... well then, the left must search for alternative explanations other than the obvious.
I wish FP would publish transcripts of these conversations. I don't have time to listen to linear content on a podcast. I can read it in 30 seconds. Why spend 30 minutes or an hour?
There are two issues that get conflated.
1. LEGAL immigration
2. IL-LEGAL immigration
We're happy to take the best and brightest from all over the world - legally.
To quote the late great singer and congressman Sonny Bono.
Q: What do you think about illegal immigration?
Bono: I think it's illegal.
And lying about asylum status and disappearing into the shadows *is* illegal.
This would not be an issue if a few thousand people Iwere crossing the border illegally each year. But it is millions. Immigration is a good thing for our country, but it must be controlled and limited. We must know who is entering the country, and stop the slave traders, drug smugglers, terrorists and criminals. So no one is admitted without thorough vetting. And we must allow in only those who will contribute, no more than we can absorb with jobs, healthcare when needed and schools for the children. The current policy -- anyone can claim asylum and be admitted for years, then not show up for final deportation and stay for more years (and there are so many the border patrol officers are all filling out paperwork instead of stopping the cartels) -- is a disaster.
99.99% of asylum claims are bogus, I mean how does someone from Mexico compare to someone in Burma or Darfur, they don't. We are full to overflowing. Wages for low income workers have been flat to decreasing. There's a housing shortage.
If we are going to admit people, admit highly educated Asians, what good do more agricultural workers do for us, drive down wages that's all. They end up working the trades and all working class jobs.
We need e verify, and zero tolerance, end any and all parole programs. Send people like that immigration lawyer back with them.
Highly educated anybodies, please. Even the dumpiest nations have educated people that speak English well and want to work hard and assimilate.
The woman who said that the Immigration and Nationality Act has not been amended since 1986 is wrong. There was an amendment in 1990 (IMMACT90) which actually increased the number of immigrant visas available each Fiscal Year, and IRAIIRA in 1996, which is where her issue is, since it defined "unlawful presence" and penalties for remaining unlawfully in the United States (unlawful for more than one year is a 10 year bar if you depart the U.S.). She would have been better off under the pre 1996 law, because you could just hang out in the U.S. and then travel to a Consulate for your immigrant visa, no harm no foul, or pay a $1,000 penalty fee under Section 245i and adjust status without ever having to leave the U.S. Her problem is if she leaves, she's subjecting herself to the 10 year bar.
The young man from Arizona State University, president of the student Republican Club is ‘Today’s Ray Of Hope’.
What is an invasion? Putin has invaded and destroyed lots of Ukraine with a few hundred thousand soldier. Not millions. Many are now conscripts whose training was inadequate at best. An invasion is happening when millions are coming across your border by illegal means and we don't know who or what many of them are. Or even a few. It took only 12 to cause 9/11.
Processing becomes a non issue when no more are crossing the border illegally. Our current law enforcement has groups dedicated to finding and incarcerating citizens who have committed crimes. Yet that is wrong to do for illegals who have committed the same or worse crimes? Once the border is shut down, determining this country's needs of who we want to let in becomes easier. When those on the legal waiting list are all let in, then it is time to worry about those who did not that maybe could stay. DACA should have an easier path to citizenship. Many make this a much tougher issue than it needs to be. As long as even folks like these keep making it unnecessarily complicated, the problems will not get solved. You are helping no one and hurting every one. If illegals are not allowed in and they end up in Mexico, that would be in accordance with our laws and not our problem. Is Mexico not an improvement from where they come from? Humane is allowing those in who you can take care of without denying your own citizens what this country is meant to provide them. Not sneaking them in, in planes or bus rides in the middle of the night and just dropping them off any where, where it seems convenient. The biden administration is not a humane administration. 300,00 children missing is far worse than the "we use to rip families apart" miss information. I see nothing useful coming our of this group. Which is not meant as a slam but a realization of the problem and how it will not get solved.
I appreciate these debates. The FP showing that we CAN sit down and have these really hard discussions. Having said that, while I truly FEEL for those sitting in the panel who are in legal limbo in this country, we do not run this country on feelings. We run it on laws. Circumventing the laws is what has landed us in the chaos that we are living in now. It is legal to seek asylum, but what does that mean? These people are patently advocating for endless, eternal, open immigration. Why have a border? Why have laws? Every time the pro illegal immigration advocates and activists claim that undocumented immigrants do not qualify for tax funded, social services and other state and federal moneys, they know they are engaging in disingenuous and misleading rhetoric. They don’t, but most have children once established here, and this makes them eligible for 18 years. The ones that become eligible this way, do claim those rights. In addition, all those who request asylum qualify for both private and government stipends and in some states, mandated housing/ shelter. Thus, come up with better arguments to justify their stays, which rightfully or not, Americans are increasingly resenting especially in the wake of the rough economy and housing crisis. Finally, but important too, the Tijuana girl justifying her father’s crossing the border illegally over escaping violence was not completely honest (or maybe she’s genuinely unaware). It is very rare for the corrupted police or other violent organizations to randomly “kidnap” a man, especially in the time frame that this might have happened. If it does happen, the victim is either wealthy or a criminal. So which one was it. One allows you to freely and comfortably stay where you were, the other deserves none of my sympathy. I know this first hand as a Tijuana girl myself. 🤷🏻♀️
All of the above ignores, the elephant in the room. How many migrants a year, or a decade, are Americans suppose to absorb? What is the number? If 10 million migrants in 4 years, is followed by another 10 million in the next 4 years, Biden/Harris will have created a migrant only, landless 51rst state, bigger than 48 other US states.
Reuters, hardly a bastion and right wing think, has polling showing 750 million to 1 billion world residents, would move to the US , if they could reside here.. For the first time in history, a plane ticket costing a couple of thousands dollars, will place migrants, from anywhere in the world, within a day's walk of US residency.
Lacking sufficient, financial resources housing, healthcare or speciality education, the migrants arrive, mainly, as beasts of burden. Purposefully imported to make the lives of richer Americans more pleasant, and poor Americans more compliant, as their standard of living declines, and they become more government dependent.
The con produces cheap labor for business owners, future Dem voters, while sticking US taxpayers with the tab, and exploiting migrants like farm animals. With a straight face, Dems brag Springfield, Ohio provides good jobs for Haitians, at $12-$15 an hour. At least cattle generally have a barn, fresh water and regular meals. $15 an hour will never produce that in a high cost of living country, like the US.
If the caste system being foisted on Americans, produced desirable living conditions, Mumbai would have a migration problem, not Texas. The current system works only for morally challenged business owners, and Dem politicians . The rest of the US should just say no.
We debate about the hordes of Biden Harris illegals. But they’re having kids. And due to our stupid laws, those kids are US citizens. Every illegal knows this game. And in 18 years, even if none of their parents get citizenship, they’re voting. Democrats want legions of govt dependents voting for more more more “services.”
Moderator needs to get a grip.
Great discussion. Ben, I wish you would/could have shelved the Fentanyl issue once it was mostly agreed that Fentanyl is crossing into America via 95% Americans. Also, the current immigration debacle should have been separated from the Dreamers and DACHA-it became a repeating loop. That aside, this was an excellent both/all sides discussion. I learned a lot. Ben, I love you but your position and political persuasion was apparent. The group was gutsy and smart. Loved them.
The fentanyl is produced in Mexico, and while it may arrive via American mules, in much of the US, the rest of distribution is controlled entirely by illegal migrants. The refusal of Harris to charge SF drug dealers with felonies, so they could not be deported, resulted in some of the cheapest drugs in the country, in the most expensive city, in the US.
It turns out , dope dealers like to work, where they will never be incarcerated. So supplies rise, prices drop, and use goes thru the roof. Soon the streets are covered in tents, needles and human waste. Give Harris the opportunity, soon every US neighborhood , will look like SF, minus the ocean views.