Peter Thiel on Trump, Elon, and the Triumph of the Counter-Elites
On Tuesday night, president-elect Donald Trump announced that the richest man in the world, Elon Musk, along with entrepreneur Vivek Ramaswamy will head a new initiative in the Trump administration: the Department of Government Efficiency, or “DOGE.”
Bari: Not as impressed with Peter Thiel as you are!
His "not at all" response to your question on whether he is worried that Trump has burned through the A,B, and C lists, Thiel messed up big time! It appears that Trump is now reaching out to the Z-list.
On the issue of scientists losing healthy skepticism, it turns out that in physics a result is not deem a discovery until it hits the "5-sigma" mark. That is, in order to claim a discovery, there is only a 1 in 3.5 million chance that the observed result is due to random fluctuations rather than a real effect. I hope that Thiel demands similar standards on "vaccines causing autism".
Bari - come on. You still don't listen. You need to dig in and evaluate DJT and the new MAGA coalition for yourself! As a journalist, I'd think that was necessary. Pointing out that the "smart people" around Trump in his first administration did not do him any favors. He has openly said he did not expect to win and he had to accept the Republican administrations' hand picks. They were out to thwart Trump and he was much less effective than he will be this time. And he actually has the will and strength to fire people who don't perform!
To fixate on "Trump's character" - "he churns though people" that work with him. No, he doesn't. He has an extreme phalanx of loyal people. Many of whom go to prison for him. Look at the loyalty he is showing RFK; Tulsi, et al. To fixate on an off-the-cuff (and off the record) comment he made in 2005 (and apologized for in 2016 when it was brought out to embarrass him). So short-sighted. And please, don't trot out the "felon 34 times over". The "ledger" entry for a single payment multiplied x 34. That payment influenced the 2016 election? Really? Does anyone believe that? The entire situation did not influence the 2024 election (except to allow more people to see the political law fare going on).
Please do us a favor, as the figurehead of TFP. Please, do some evaluation of the primary sources on DJT.
Rather than writing off all Trump voters as captured by personality and showmanship, consider that many of us (I'd say most of us) are intelligent, thoughtful people who have been watching and researching these primary sources since sometime in 2016. We see the things you can't seem to.
I remember the day of or before the election, hearing about all these Harris events with celebrity headliners and I thought that was really similar to the Clinton campaign. I never thought celebrities help in recent elections, but I am thinking they may hurt. I have always personally found it dumb and kind of condescending. Who actually cares what some person who may be immensely at talented at something thinks about politics? We don’t ask an amazing plumber his thoughts on foreign policy.
For my money, this was a great interview and well worth the time. Peter Thiel lays out sound positions in a non-argumentative or threatening way. WAAAAY BETTER than MSM talking heads.
A couple of comments about Covid. Maybe the shots should not have been called a vaccine; if as many people had gotten polio after the vaccine, as people who contracted Covid after the vaccine, the polio vaccine would have been discontinued. We should stop allowing commercials and ad time to be bought by the pharmaceutical companies. How can you expect to hear anything pertaining to risks of the Covid shots when you hear “ this segment paid for by Pfizer “ on our news channels. Also, that keeps those same news media from inviting physicians or scientists with differing opinions on their program. More and more, I feel like I’m only getting half the story from our corporate media.
So Peter Thiel think's Biden's 2020 South Carolina primary win was the result of some conspiracy by "the machine", that would have somehow ended democracy if Harris had won. I'm sorry, why is this guy worth listening to again?
I enjoyed this one. I thought Peter love the Ivy League grads was strange. There was a lot of death in my family when I was young, I struggled with substance abuse as a teen. Had a 3.3 GPA in high school. No way in hell was an Ivy League university going to admit this white guy. But by Peter’s logic it just means that I’m stupid because I didn’t go to Harvard and attended Central Washington University. It’s hard to rub off that left wing elitism.
I did love the talk of vaccines causing autism since it is one of the most thorough debunk myths in existence. Interesting to how Peter with his elite education couldn’t figure out how it has been disproven.
It’s quite simple. In Europe they have socialized medicine. The government can look at everyones medical records. In Denmark they simply looked, and found that there is zero difference in Autism rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated people.
Debate over.
I have a very hard time being polite about this myth. I really do. It’s mind blowing what sheep people are. In the early 2000’s this was something crystal wearing california progressives said and Meazles outbreaks started in LA near Disneyland. Republicans laughed at the dumb libs for not vaccinating their kids. Now look where we! People just play follow the leader.
That is the real crime of Fauci’s and COVID. Half the country will completely disregard clear proof because of some phantom they are imagining.
I found the Ivy League comments confusing as well. What I actually think he was saying was that any CONSERVATIVE who comes out of an Ivy League school has been through the fire. They have been outnumbered, have had a front row seat to liberal indoctrination, and have had to resist that thought process the entire 4 years they are there. I think he is touting the conservative graduates of these Ivies as much more tested and suited to enter politics, already having proven themselves many times.
(not that he was touting Ivy League education in general. But it was confusing)
Saw the same video. Bari had no problem calling Tulsi a toadie for Assad, but when asked to give an example she couldn’t. Similar to this interview when stating parts of the right have become Hitlerian but when asked for examples she once again couldn’t produce.
Yes! Bari shows that she is very influenced by sound bites, like the rest of the elite liberals. Not sure how much primary research into these questions she does herself.
Why, as a subscriber to Honestly, am I suddenly unable to hear this in Chrome? I much prefer not to b be signed up to Spotify et al and always prefer to go to the original of the few podcasts I listen to. Would be grateful for guidance if anyone is interested?
Fabulous. What I worry about is how are we as a country going to navigate the coming prolonged period of economic austerity, which is sure to come given our nation's (and many of our cities' and state's) unsustainable levels of debt. Can Trump possibly steer us through such pinched times, not only domestically but internationally as well? I dunno.
Very enjoyable interview. Peter provides thoughtful reasoned responses Bari’s world view. Bari, is it possible to provide a full transcript of this interview? I would love to see any of Peter’s thoughts that ended up on the cutting room floor. Thanks.
The conversation about being open to rebel thinking and the risk of the slippery slope into crazy ideas: Isn’t acknowledging this risk what has made America exceptional - the reason for checks and balances in the constitution? And I think our laws or regulations can be evaluated based on this same rubric. If a law is designed to check and balance power it is does so much more for the public interest than when they get into telling people how to live their lives or telling businesses how to operate, or health care professionals what protocols to implement. I know many in this group think that any government rules for the press are necessarily wrong. But I believe that rules designed to check and balance the power of the press have had the benefit of protecting freedom of press from the influence of ad money and benefits the public interest.
Relatedly, from my perspective inside Leo Burnett working with Fortune 50 companies, in the 1980’s I watched a shift in business FROM:
a) growth in existing US markets through R&D and marketing/sales and
b) high margins and paying out dividends to shareholders (who were often employees, business partners, and customers)
TO
a) banks convincing corporations to shift from growth and R&D to efficiency and global expansion
b) taking on debt to acquire companies to eliminate market inefficiency created by redundancy of multiple competitors, exclusively to the benefit of banks and institutional investors who replaced the individual shareholders who were motivated by sharing in returns to collaborate with the company.
One thought I had was that this was the first time I’ve heard Thiel’s thoughts on “the way things are this time around (this election cycle)”. I’d love to hear more if anyone has links for recent discussions.
The other thought was that Bari should cease with the straw-manning of Carlson and Cooper as nazi-apologists and sympathizers. I am 100% onboard to listen to a debate about where Cooper’s analysis is allegedly incorrect or a misinterpretation. Thiel gave you a much better paradigm of looking at the different lessons of WWI and WWII.
What is it about Carlson/Cooper that has caused you to lose your curiosity?
I can't say about Carlson, although his knowledge of history is shallow at best. Cooper is definitely a Nazi apologist and definitely not even an amateur historian. As the Brits, Niall Ferguson and Douglas Murray, as well as VDH, have pointed out, Cooper is just pushing warmed-over David Irving, whose "ideas" they're familiar with.
All of these guys are peddling historical revisionism of the worst sort, and it should give everyone serious pause about the direction of the new "natcon" right. I've been a conservative or libertarian since I was in college, and the collapse of the Buckley-Goldwater-Reagan conservatism and its replacement with circus barkers and peddlers of fraud should make everyone concerned.
Bari: Not as impressed with Peter Thiel as you are!
His "not at all" response to your question on whether he is worried that Trump has burned through the A,B, and C lists, Thiel messed up big time! It appears that Trump is now reaching out to the Z-list.
On the issue of scientists losing healthy skepticism, it turns out that in physics a result is not deem a discovery until it hits the "5-sigma" mark. That is, in order to claim a discovery, there is only a 1 in 3.5 million chance that the observed result is due to random fluctuations rather than a real effect. I hope that Thiel demands similar standards on "vaccines causing autism".
Bari - come on. You still don't listen. You need to dig in and evaluate DJT and the new MAGA coalition for yourself! As a journalist, I'd think that was necessary. Pointing out that the "smart people" around Trump in his first administration did not do him any favors. He has openly said he did not expect to win and he had to accept the Republican administrations' hand picks. They were out to thwart Trump and he was much less effective than he will be this time. And he actually has the will and strength to fire people who don't perform!
To fixate on "Trump's character" - "he churns though people" that work with him. No, he doesn't. He has an extreme phalanx of loyal people. Many of whom go to prison for him. Look at the loyalty he is showing RFK; Tulsi, et al. To fixate on an off-the-cuff (and off the record) comment he made in 2005 (and apologized for in 2016 when it was brought out to embarrass him). So short-sighted. And please, don't trot out the "felon 34 times over". The "ledger" entry for a single payment multiplied x 34. That payment influenced the 2016 election? Really? Does anyone believe that? The entire situation did not influence the 2024 election (except to allow more people to see the political law fare going on).
Please do us a favor, as the figurehead of TFP. Please, do some evaluation of the primary sources on DJT.
Rather than writing off all Trump voters as captured by personality and showmanship, consider that many of us (I'd say most of us) are intelligent, thoughtful people who have been watching and researching these primary sources since sometime in 2016. We see the things you can't seem to.
I wrote this one down:
If we’re going to avoid WWIII we need to learn the lessons of both WWI and WII.
You can’t have excess of appeasement and can’t go sleepwalking into armageddon. They are opposite lessons.
We have recency bias. We should be 60-70% focused on WWI and 30-40% focused on WWII.
I remember the day of or before the election, hearing about all these Harris events with celebrity headliners and I thought that was really similar to the Clinton campaign. I never thought celebrities help in recent elections, but I am thinking they may hurt. I have always personally found it dumb and kind of condescending. Who actually cares what some person who may be immensely at talented at something thinks about politics? We don’t ask an amazing plumber his thoughts on foreign policy.
This was an excellent, thoughtful conversation. I'm so impressed with Thiel's ability speak on just about any topic with insight and wisdom.
For my money, this was a great interview and well worth the time. Peter Thiel lays out sound positions in a non-argumentative or threatening way. WAAAAY BETTER than MSM talking heads.
Agree.
A couple of comments about Covid. Maybe the shots should not have been called a vaccine; if as many people had gotten polio after the vaccine, as people who contracted Covid after the vaccine, the polio vaccine would have been discontinued. We should stop allowing commercials and ad time to be bought by the pharmaceutical companies. How can you expect to hear anything pertaining to risks of the Covid shots when you hear “ this segment paid for by Pfizer “ on our news channels. Also, that keeps those same news media from inviting physicians or scientists with differing opinions on their program. More and more, I feel like I’m only getting half the story from our corporate media.
So Peter Thiel think's Biden's 2020 South Carolina primary win was the result of some conspiracy by "the machine", that would have somehow ended democracy if Harris had won. I'm sorry, why is this guy worth listening to again?
I enjoyed this one. I thought Peter love the Ivy League grads was strange. There was a lot of death in my family when I was young, I struggled with substance abuse as a teen. Had a 3.3 GPA in high school. No way in hell was an Ivy League university going to admit this white guy. But by Peter’s logic it just means that I’m stupid because I didn’t go to Harvard and attended Central Washington University. It’s hard to rub off that left wing elitism.
I did love the talk of vaccines causing autism since it is one of the most thorough debunk myths in existence. Interesting to how Peter with his elite education couldn’t figure out how it has been disproven.
It’s quite simple. In Europe they have socialized medicine. The government can look at everyones medical records. In Denmark they simply looked, and found that there is zero difference in Autism rates between vaccinated and unvaccinated people.
Debate over.
I have a very hard time being polite about this myth. I really do. It’s mind blowing what sheep people are. In the early 2000’s this was something crystal wearing california progressives said and Meazles outbreaks started in LA near Disneyland. Republicans laughed at the dumb libs for not vaccinating their kids. Now look where we! People just play follow the leader.
That is the real crime of Fauci’s and COVID. Half the country will completely disregard clear proof because of some phantom they are imagining.
I found the Ivy League comments confusing as well. What I actually think he was saying was that any CONSERVATIVE who comes out of an Ivy League school has been through the fire. They have been outnumbered, have had a front row seat to liberal indoctrination, and have had to resist that thought process the entire 4 years they are there. I think he is touting the conservative graduates of these Ivies as much more tested and suited to enter politics, already having proven themselves many times.
(not that he was touting Ivy League education in general. But it was confusing)
Glenn Greenwald just skewered Bari. Might be worth and article Bari.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tj9-cAxykmw
Saw the same video. Bari had no problem calling Tulsi a toadie for Assad, but when asked to give an example she couldn’t. Similar to this interview when stating parts of the right have become Hitlerian but when asked for examples she once again couldn’t produce.
Yes! Bari shows that she is very influenced by sound bites, like the rest of the elite liberals. Not sure how much primary research into these questions she does herself.
Why, as a subscriber to Honestly, am I suddenly unable to hear this in Chrome? I much prefer not to b be signed up to Spotify et al and always prefer to go to the original of the few podcasts I listen to. Would be grateful for guidance if anyone is interested?
Fabulous. What I worry about is how are we as a country going to navigate the coming prolonged period of economic austerity, which is sure to come given our nation's (and many of our cities' and state's) unsustainable levels of debt. Can Trump possibly steer us through such pinched times, not only domestically but internationally as well? I dunno.
Anyway, I have an idea: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00U0C9HKW
Can anyone think of a better?
Very enjoyable interview. Peter provides thoughtful reasoned responses Bari’s world view. Bari, is it possible to provide a full transcript of this interview? I would love to see any of Peter’s thoughts that ended up on the cutting room floor. Thanks.
The conversation about being open to rebel thinking and the risk of the slippery slope into crazy ideas: Isn’t acknowledging this risk what has made America exceptional - the reason for checks and balances in the constitution? And I think our laws or regulations can be evaluated based on this same rubric. If a law is designed to check and balance power it is does so much more for the public interest than when they get into telling people how to live their lives or telling businesses how to operate, or health care professionals what protocols to implement. I know many in this group think that any government rules for the press are necessarily wrong. But I believe that rules designed to check and balance the power of the press have had the benefit of protecting freedom of press from the influence of ad money and benefits the public interest.
Relatedly, from my perspective inside Leo Burnett working with Fortune 50 companies, in the 1980’s I watched a shift in business FROM:
a) growth in existing US markets through R&D and marketing/sales and
b) high margins and paying out dividends to shareholders (who were often employees, business partners, and customers)
TO
a) banks convincing corporations to shift from growth and R&D to efficiency and global expansion
b) taking on debt to acquire companies to eliminate market inefficiency created by redundancy of multiple competitors, exclusively to the benefit of banks and institutional investors who replaced the individual shareholders who were motivated by sharing in returns to collaborate with the company.
Great conversation - thank you!
One thought I had was that this was the first time I’ve heard Thiel’s thoughts on “the way things are this time around (this election cycle)”. I’d love to hear more if anyone has links for recent discussions.
The other thought was that Bari should cease with the straw-manning of Carlson and Cooper as nazi-apologists and sympathizers. I am 100% onboard to listen to a debate about where Cooper’s analysis is allegedly incorrect or a misinterpretation. Thiel gave you a much better paradigm of looking at the different lessons of WWI and WWII.
What is it about Carlson/Cooper that has caused you to lose your curiosity?
I can't say about Carlson, although his knowledge of history is shallow at best. Cooper is definitely a Nazi apologist and definitely not even an amateur historian. As the Brits, Niall Ferguson and Douglas Murray, as well as VDH, have pointed out, Cooper is just pushing warmed-over David Irving, whose "ideas" they're familiar with.
All of these guys are peddling historical revisionism of the worst sort, and it should give everyone serious pause about the direction of the new "natcon" right. I've been a conservative or libertarian since I was in college, and the collapse of the Buckley-Goldwater-Reagan conservatism and its replacement with circus barkers and peddlers of fraud should make everyone concerned.