The ‘pariah of Silicon Valley’ on China, TikTok, AI, Donald Trump and Ron DeSantis, Florida and California, God, new moonshots, and how to make America great again.
I agree with a lot of what he's saying, but its kind of hilarious that he thought the PT Barnum of real estate with a string of bankruptcies behind him and a litany of unpaid debts to small businesses would be the one to turn things around, rather than emblematic of exactly the stagnation he's complaining about.
In reference to Bari's question, I suppose I find myself on the radical revolutionary side according to her definitions. Fortunately, the root cause of our woes is unbelievably easy to pinpoint: it's corruption. We have legalized corruption in this country, our "leaders" can't even drive within those rather broad lanes, and we wonder why there is stagnation...why we can't agree on whether it's over-regulation or not enough regulation that's the problem. Large businesses are running the country for their own benefit. Regulations to curtail activities which impinge on individuals' natural rights are absent, while regulations to box out smaller competition (and innovation) are rampant.
Look at green energy. Green energy is the future. It is the future because it is what the market wants. Yet our government is still panting at the end of big oil's leash. We're subsidizing a dying industry that keeps our energy prices chained to areas of the world that don't like us very much. There is nothing about the oil industry, except jobs which could be created in other industries, that is good for this country in any way. The reason we continue to do this is because politicians are *paid* to maintain the status quo. If the government had gotten behind innovation in green energy 10 years ago instead of trying to thwart it, we would be absolutely crushing the market rather than floundering to keep up with the Chinese. Corruption has eroded our ability to look for what's next and capitalize on it.
Even if you don't think corruption is the whole problem, it is the problem that must be dealt with before any other problems can be solved.
The "wokeness" the commenters here think is the end of the world is just a symptom. We got rid of overtly racist laws. We have had political correctness which, whether people like it or not, has reckoned with a lot of things that needed to be reckoned with. Now we have wokeness which is trying to get at areas of lingering inequality and racism but is veering into censorship and nonsense far too often. The problem isn't people being sensitive to microagressions, its that they feel powerless and hopeless because of the complete non-responsiveness of our government to citizens input, total technological ignorance by the government, the death of the American dream, etc. Give people opportunity, give them a society that is actually going somewhere, and the wokeness movement will fade - not because you argued them into submission on teh internets but because lingering inequality will go away and everyone's standard of living will be raised. Everyone wins (except legacy industries that the government is artificially propping up with your tax dollars and debt.)
People want control over their lives and if they are denied control in one area they will overcompensate in another. Return this country to the hands of the people, return it to a country which values innovation and technology and all of the other problems will begin to work themselves out.
"the aggregates are just not what they appear to be"
This is the most insightful point he makes to support his "stagnation" argument.
As long as we consider only the aggregates - the alternate opportunities emerging on a micro level are hidden.
For example, recently I asked CHATGPT which states have the highest math scores, then reading scores. Massachusetts came out on top for each. When I asked for examples of the school districts/curriculums in Massachusetts with the best results, CHATGPT said it didn't have that data.
That's where the alternate opportunities hide - the ones that haven't been scaled yet.
Generally, I am not a podcast fan. I would rather read. However, hearing Thiel in his own voice respond really was excellent. It would be difficult to translate this interview to text in a meaningful way. I learned a lot about Thiel and his thought processes and ideas by listening and really appreciated this piece.
A suggestion: please resist the temptation to interrupt. Especially with as articulate a subject at Thiel. It was an uncommon thing in this podcast, but still ...
While enjoyable, it was more like a lecture than a interview. Bari did more lecturing than questioning and eliciting comments. Unfortunately, culturally, the good ole days were is actuality, the good ole days!
I am not suggesting you will change the mind of the true believers. They are not the majority, but they are bullies that everyone else is playing along with. For instance, make colleges liable for student loan defaults and they will start focusing on educating their students instead of anti-racism. Make investment companies focus on returns for their investors and they will start focusing on investments that make money instead of ESG. Make companies responsible for shareholder returns and they will start focusing on profits over DEI. How is Bud Light doing these days?
I found it a bit odd that for a man with amazing powers of retention, John 3:16 didn’t just roll of the tongue. Maybe because German is his first language and and the spot translation made him flustered?
Jesus Christ. All you snowflakes up in arms over “woke.” So men can have babies. How does that actually affect your life? Trans kids: affects your life? Poor woman has an abortion: affects your life? Guatemalan evades border patrol and works in a meat plant: affects your life? You cons are the biggest bunch of heartless sissies I’ve ever known. And your Christianity? Yours? Not Jesus’ but yours? Just a gussied-up excuse to condemn others for failings Jesus would have considered grounds for pity and love. Peter Thiel, what a hypocrite. Hey Peter, want to “change the world”? Feed to poor. All of them. Without judgment. The GOP is just a huge justify-judgment movement so it can keep its $. Pathetic.
There are many political and socio-cultural issues issues that do not affect one directly, but that one views as vitally important. Just as you, Noah, are not affected directly by, say, a woman not being able to get an abortion after, say, 15 weeks.
My assertion: Children are being ideologically groomed in schools and on social media normalizing transgenderism (why this is happening is a much longer discussion). Witness the stratospheric rise in incidence over the past few years, and the consequent social and cultural capital on offer as oppressed victims, accessible to both children and parents. Most of these "trans kids" have multiple mental health co-morbidities. Assuming that there is even such a thing as a "trans kid", children can in no way consent to puberty blockers, mastectomies, and genital surgery. The grave harm imposed on this extremely vulnerable cohort by gender pseudoscience will prove to be the greatest medical scandal of our time. I care about protecting these children from this harm. I care about truth....that girls cannot become boys and vice versa, and fighting a crazed, tyrannical gender movement that seeks to force everyone to acknowledge the untrue. That spaces for women just like my wife and daughters (sports, locker rooms, bathrooms, shelters, jails) remain just that, a safe place for women. Happy 4th to you too.
Noah is the one true interpreter of Jesus’ teachings through the lens of anti-Republican party analysis. Everyone recognize this man! Where woke we be without you Noah?
Can’t really say. Want to comment on my actual words? How do these conservative hobby horses actually affect your life? Was your job at Denny’s stolen by an illegal immigrant? Have you been harassed by a trans 13-year-old? So why is wokeness such a thorn in your side?
I already did. Read what I wrote. Human society has always evolved. The “status quo” 2,000 years ago was very different from today. Same with 200 years ago. 200 years ago there were people who couldn’t imagine getting rid of slavery. So don’t try to claim that the status quo that you like best in 2023 is how the world should remain for the rest of time. But to indulge you, let me repeat, all the things that the GOP wants you to be scared of — trans! immigration! gay! etc.! — are things that don’t even affect you. Maybe it makes you feel icky that there are gay and trans and brown people breathing your air — but that’s where Jesus comes in. He had sympathy and love for people who were different, struggling, outcast. The GOP uses them to scare you while it fleeces you with tax cuts for the rich. That’s why I’d love to see Peter Thiel actually feed some hungry people instead of pontificating about “woke.” Now, do you have anything at all to say?
I know full well, which is why I can invoke the Bible with authority. Jesus would be disgusted to see his teachings contorted into the the GOP’s narrow-minded hatred. As someone said, we don’t need the Bible in schools, we need it taught again in church. But thanks for your good wishes.
Anyhow, how about responding to my ideas rather than making dopey assumptions about my name? All the things the GOP decries as woke, how do they really impact your life? Or do they just irritate you in some way you can’t pinpoint?
OMG...Bari, are you the best interviewer ever? Your research is amazing! I gave myself a Mother’s Day Present and finished your interview with Peter Thiel. He’s amazing; you are amazing! This interview in a long line of terrific interviews...Netanyahu among them. Thank you and Happy Mother’s Day!
Specifically, renal cell carcinoma....which after a decade plus has come back but not to the kidneys....rather, lymph nodes and thyroid, mostly.
In the last 3 or so years a new medicine has come online, an immunotherapy called keytruda. It is a lifesafer, or at least, a prolonger. I have been fortunate that I have had very few side effects to it or the chemo pill I am also on, called Lenvima.
As I said, ever 3+ years ago, I would have been in trouble.....like mark off the days.
The progress in the field of cancer has been extraordinary. And I am delighted to be able to attest to that from personal experience. BTW, pancreatic cancer is among the most obdurate of cancers, a death sentence really, yet I hear there is progress there too.
Peter, wokeness is not so much an irrelevant distraction from important issues as it is an intentional smokescreen to obscure the utter failure of the left's policies on important issues. It is critical to recognize how the culture wars are used to justify poor performance, which is what is leading to our national decline. Gov. DeSantis is in danger of fighting wokeness for the sake of fighting wokeness without seeing the bigger picture. The answer to wokeness is neither to ignore it nor to fight it directly. The answer is to demand accountability and results. When institutions, whether they be companies, universities, or government agencies, are forced to become accountable for results they will abandon DEI, critical race theory, gender theory, anti-racism, intersectionality, "whiteness studies" and all the rest.
Thank you for replying to me. Good to hear where you’re coming from. I can tell that you’re really intelligent... but I don’t agree with these conclusions.
I cannot see why wokeness is used for target-practice.
If the definition of wokeness is the oppressed becoming aware of their oppression, what can be wrong with that?
How will you force people to be accountable for results? They are convinced they are on the “right side of history.” Logic, coherence and accountability are words that have alternate meanings for the “left.”
What is truly unnerving is that the Biden administration along with the DOJ & the media have become a quasi dictatorship. Trump is too volatile & too heavily burdened to be an effective counter to Biden. DeSantos at this point in time appeals to the extremists & appears to have lost his way. What America needs is a moderate candidate with leadership skills who will appeal to the unaffiliated, moderate, independent. It's the independent moderates who will ultimately decide the election! As for China one option is to boycott Chinese made products but that's not going to happen. People care about safety & the economy. As long as crime remains out of the suburbs it will remain a peripheral issue. The exception could be NYC. As in the last off year election Republican's stance on abortion will doom Republican candidates. As for "illegals" they're a boon to both the Catholic church & enterprises that need cheap labor. California is a reflection of so much that is obscene in America.
DeSantis is only extreme if you’re woke and then he’s coming for you. Otherwise he seems to be uber-competent, reasonable and a smart problem solver. I can’t take Trump again, even though he was absolutely unfairly accused and hounded by the Dems and the media (clown cars both) , his chaos isn’t what we need.
I agree with a lot of what he's saying, but its kind of hilarious that he thought the PT Barnum of real estate with a string of bankruptcies behind him and a litany of unpaid debts to small businesses would be the one to turn things around, rather than emblematic of exactly the stagnation he's complaining about.
In reference to Bari's question, I suppose I find myself on the radical revolutionary side according to her definitions. Fortunately, the root cause of our woes is unbelievably easy to pinpoint: it's corruption. We have legalized corruption in this country, our "leaders" can't even drive within those rather broad lanes, and we wonder why there is stagnation...why we can't agree on whether it's over-regulation or not enough regulation that's the problem. Large businesses are running the country for their own benefit. Regulations to curtail activities which impinge on individuals' natural rights are absent, while regulations to box out smaller competition (and innovation) are rampant.
Look at green energy. Green energy is the future. It is the future because it is what the market wants. Yet our government is still panting at the end of big oil's leash. We're subsidizing a dying industry that keeps our energy prices chained to areas of the world that don't like us very much. There is nothing about the oil industry, except jobs which could be created in other industries, that is good for this country in any way. The reason we continue to do this is because politicians are *paid* to maintain the status quo. If the government had gotten behind innovation in green energy 10 years ago instead of trying to thwart it, we would be absolutely crushing the market rather than floundering to keep up with the Chinese. Corruption has eroded our ability to look for what's next and capitalize on it.
Even if you don't think corruption is the whole problem, it is the problem that must be dealt with before any other problems can be solved.
The "wokeness" the commenters here think is the end of the world is just a symptom. We got rid of overtly racist laws. We have had political correctness which, whether people like it or not, has reckoned with a lot of things that needed to be reckoned with. Now we have wokeness which is trying to get at areas of lingering inequality and racism but is veering into censorship and nonsense far too often. The problem isn't people being sensitive to microagressions, its that they feel powerless and hopeless because of the complete non-responsiveness of our government to citizens input, total technological ignorance by the government, the death of the American dream, etc. Give people opportunity, give them a society that is actually going somewhere, and the wokeness movement will fade - not because you argued them into submission on teh internets but because lingering inequality will go away and everyone's standard of living will be raised. Everyone wins (except legacy industries that the government is artificially propping up with your tax dollars and debt.)
People want control over their lives and if they are denied control in one area they will overcompensate in another. Return this country to the hands of the people, return it to a country which values innovation and technology and all of the other problems will begin to work themselves out.
Great interview
"the aggregates are just not what they appear to be"
This is the most insightful point he makes to support his "stagnation" argument.
As long as we consider only the aggregates - the alternate opportunities emerging on a micro level are hidden.
For example, recently I asked CHATGPT which states have the highest math scores, then reading scores. Massachusetts came out on top for each. When I asked for examples of the school districts/curriculums in Massachusetts with the best results, CHATGPT said it didn't have that data.
That's where the alternate opportunities hide - the ones that haven't been scaled yet.
Thank you for replying. It is upsetting when any politician of either party acts for the sake of the donors rather than the people in need.
I am willing to keep investigating what the truth is.
Excellent, really great stuff.
Generally, I am not a podcast fan. I would rather read. However, hearing Thiel in his own voice respond really was excellent. It would be difficult to translate this interview to text in a meaningful way. I learned a lot about Thiel and his thought processes and ideas by listening and really appreciated this piece.
A suggestion: please resist the temptation to interrupt. Especially with as articulate a subject at Thiel. It was an uncommon thing in this podcast, but still ...
While enjoyable, it was more like a lecture than a interview. Bari did more lecturing than questioning and eliciting comments. Unfortunately, culturally, the good ole days were is actuality, the good ole days!
I am not suggesting you will change the mind of the true believers. They are not the majority, but they are bullies that everyone else is playing along with. For instance, make colleges liable for student loan defaults and they will start focusing on educating their students instead of anti-racism. Make investment companies focus on returns for their investors and they will start focusing on investments that make money instead of ESG. Make companies responsible for shareholder returns and they will start focusing on profits over DEI. How is Bud Light doing these days?
I found it a bit odd that for a man with amazing powers of retention, John 3:16 didn’t just roll of the tongue. Maybe because German is his first language and and the spot translation made him flustered?
Until I read this, I knew very little about Theil except that he was a tech investor that the Left despises.
I'm impressed. This guy thinks well.
Jesus Christ. All you snowflakes up in arms over “woke.” So men can have babies. How does that actually affect your life? Trans kids: affects your life? Poor woman has an abortion: affects your life? Guatemalan evades border patrol and works in a meat plant: affects your life? You cons are the biggest bunch of heartless sissies I’ve ever known. And your Christianity? Yours? Not Jesus’ but yours? Just a gussied-up excuse to condemn others for failings Jesus would have considered grounds for pity and love. Peter Thiel, what a hypocrite. Hey Peter, want to “change the world”? Feed to poor. All of them. Without judgment. The GOP is just a huge justify-judgment movement so it can keep its $. Pathetic.
"So how does that affect your life?" Never heard that bracing line of inquiry before.
If we told you how, I have no doubt you would not concede the the point.
Then do it. Happy 4th.
Ok, I'll take on your first one..."trans kids"
There are many political and socio-cultural issues issues that do not affect one directly, but that one views as vitally important. Just as you, Noah, are not affected directly by, say, a woman not being able to get an abortion after, say, 15 weeks.
My assertion: Children are being ideologically groomed in schools and on social media normalizing transgenderism (why this is happening is a much longer discussion). Witness the stratospheric rise in incidence over the past few years, and the consequent social and cultural capital on offer as oppressed victims, accessible to both children and parents. Most of these "trans kids" have multiple mental health co-morbidities. Assuming that there is even such a thing as a "trans kid", children can in no way consent to puberty blockers, mastectomies, and genital surgery. The grave harm imposed on this extremely vulnerable cohort by gender pseudoscience will prove to be the greatest medical scandal of our time. I care about protecting these children from this harm. I care about truth....that girls cannot become boys and vice versa, and fighting a crazed, tyrannical gender movement that seeks to force everyone to acknowledge the untrue. That spaces for women just like my wife and daughters (sports, locker rooms, bathrooms, shelters, jails) remain just that, a safe place for women. Happy 4th to you too.
Noah is the one true interpreter of Jesus’ teachings through the lens of anti-Republican party analysis. Everyone recognize this man! Where woke we be without you Noah?
Can’t really say. Want to comment on my actual words? How do these conservative hobby horses actually affect your life? Was your job at Denny’s stolen by an illegal immigrant? Have you been harassed by a trans 13-year-old? So why is wokeness such a thorn in your side?
Excuse me Noah, but you have the burden of proof to explain why you want to move the status quo. Go!
I already did. Read what I wrote. Human society has always evolved. The “status quo” 2,000 years ago was very different from today. Same with 200 years ago. 200 years ago there were people who couldn’t imagine getting rid of slavery. So don’t try to claim that the status quo that you like best in 2023 is how the world should remain for the rest of time. But to indulge you, let me repeat, all the things that the GOP wants you to be scared of — trans! immigration! gay! etc.! — are things that don’t even affect you. Maybe it makes you feel icky that there are gay and trans and brown people breathing your air — but that’s where Jesus comes in. He had sympathy and love for people who were different, struggling, outcast. The GOP uses them to scare you while it fleeces you with tax cuts for the rich. That’s why I’d love to see Peter Thiel actually feed some hungry people instead of pontificating about “woke.” Now, do you have anything at all to say?
I’m not convinced. Try harder.
Nah. You’re just afraid to debate me. Have nice night.
Wow Noah - feel better? I'm not gonna tell you from where your name was derived...that would blow your mind! Anyway, God bless you and your family.
I know full well, which is why I can invoke the Bible with authority. Jesus would be disgusted to see his teachings contorted into the the GOP’s narrow-minded hatred. As someone said, we don’t need the Bible in schools, we need it taught again in church. But thanks for your good wishes.
Anyhow, how about responding to my ideas rather than making dopey assumptions about my name? All the things the GOP decries as woke, how do they really impact your life? Or do they just irritate you in some way you can’t pinpoint?
OMG...Bari, are you the best interviewer ever? Your research is amazing! I gave myself a Mother’s Day Present and finished your interview with Peter Thiel. He’s amazing; you are amazing! This interview in a long line of terrific interviews...Netanyahu among them. Thank you and Happy Mother’s Day!
Bari, I have cancer.
Specifically, renal cell carcinoma....which after a decade plus has come back but not to the kidneys....rather, lymph nodes and thyroid, mostly.
In the last 3 or so years a new medicine has come online, an immunotherapy called keytruda. It is a lifesafer, or at least, a prolonger. I have been fortunate that I have had very few side effects to it or the chemo pill I am also on, called Lenvima.
As I said, ever 3+ years ago, I would have been in trouble.....like mark off the days.
The progress in the field of cancer has been extraordinary. And I am delighted to be able to attest to that from personal experience. BTW, pancreatic cancer is among the most obdurate of cancers, a death sentence really, yet I hear there is progress there too.
Anyone wishes to share their experiences.
Peter, wokeness is not so much an irrelevant distraction from important issues as it is an intentional smokescreen to obscure the utter failure of the left's policies on important issues. It is critical to recognize how the culture wars are used to justify poor performance, which is what is leading to our national decline. Gov. DeSantis is in danger of fighting wokeness for the sake of fighting wokeness without seeing the bigger picture. The answer to wokeness is neither to ignore it nor to fight it directly. The answer is to demand accountability and results. When institutions, whether they be companies, universities, or government agencies, are forced to become accountable for results they will abandon DEI, critical race theory, gender theory, anti-racism, intersectionality, "whiteness studies" and all the rest.
Thank you for replying to me. Good to hear where you’re coming from. I can tell that you’re really intelligent... but I don’t agree with these conclusions.
I cannot see why wokeness is used for target-practice.
If the definition of wokeness is the oppressed becoming aware of their oppression, what can be wrong with that?
How will you force people to be accountable for results? They are convinced they are on the “right side of history.” Logic, coherence and accountability are words that have alternate meanings for the “left.”
Excellent piece, great job!
Terrific discussion.
What is truly unnerving is that the Biden administration along with the DOJ & the media have become a quasi dictatorship. Trump is too volatile & too heavily burdened to be an effective counter to Biden. DeSantos at this point in time appeals to the extremists & appears to have lost his way. What America needs is a moderate candidate with leadership skills who will appeal to the unaffiliated, moderate, independent. It's the independent moderates who will ultimately decide the election! As for China one option is to boycott Chinese made products but that's not going to happen. People care about safety & the economy. As long as crime remains out of the suburbs it will remain a peripheral issue. The exception could be NYC. As in the last off year election Republican's stance on abortion will doom Republican candidates. As for "illegals" they're a boon to both the Catholic church & enterprises that need cheap labor. California is a reflection of so much that is obscene in America.
DeSantis is only extreme if you’re woke and then he’s coming for you. Otherwise he seems to be uber-competent, reasonable and a smart problem solver. I can’t take Trump again, even though he was absolutely unfairly accused and hounded by the Dems and the media (clown cars both) , his chaos isn’t what we need.