I was a college debater from 1955 to 1960 and then a judge. I really cannot countenance what our young people are now subject to. Go ahead with your own debate league and leave these anti-intellectuals to stew in their own bigoted juices. You don’t need them. Good young minds don’t need them. Our nation doesn’t need them. I wish you every success.
I was a college debater from 1955 to 1960 and then a judge. I really cannot countenance what our young people are now subject to. Go ahead with your own debate league and leave these anti-intellectuals to stew in their own bigoted juices. You don’t need them. Good young minds don’t need them. Our nation doesn’t need them. I wish you every success.
If debaters are judged on ideology..telling them not to use the inoffensive terms like “Mr” or “ Miss” ! Then it is really a sad state of affairs ! And even going through their personal statements on social media is abominable and smacks of fascist censorship!
Yes , boycott the NSDA ! They certainly don’t seem to believe in free speech!
Good luck on sponsoring a real debate association!
BORROWING YOUR "REPLY" SID. MY COMMENTS BOX REMAINS BLOCKED.
I'm not sure we should remain hostage to communist /capitalist ping-pong thinking anymore. Both are controlled by blood thirsty 20th Century ideologues willing and able to hold the peoples of the world at nuclear gunpoint. After all, pretty is as pretty does. On the one hand the hidden CCP peoples rendition center and on the other the DNC/EU rigged game surveillance state being perped by the Davos crowd. They all go to dinner together. Only a fool would think Xi, Schwab, Gates and Fink aren't all disciples of the numbered account. Today, American's still unwilling to accept the truth/cover up of the Ukraine/China Biden connection might spend some time with the Michael Soussan book BACKSTABBING FOR BEGINNER'S which uncovered the political bribery and payoff piggies and perp's sucking down UNITED NATIONS Iraqi Food for Oil money worldwide. Billion's in American tax dollars stolen, again. Want to change it? Julian, Edward and the J/6 boy's and girl's didn't even get Vaseline.
What does this have to do with the assault on debate, free speech, youth and the American future? The useful idiot's on both side's are all unwitting apparatchik's for the same totalitarian grift. For the average American and European in realpolitik the words communist and capitalist don't mean anything anymore. The tactic's for repression are ideologically interchangeable. In the EU the attempted seizure's of farmland, thousands arrested and prosecuted for thought crimes, the German inform on your neighbor "snitch line". In America the feminist/DEI life cancellation machine, the tech platform/surveillance state list keeper, the DNC nod to the criminalization of citizenship. In China all the tactic's above, plus the bullet in the head. Tyranny by any other name is just as foul. In spiritual term's, it's perp's, all the way down.
We're American citizen's who live in a Constitutional Republic. Not communist's or capitalist's. (Do those two word's appear anywhere in the Constitution?) We are a PEOPLE fighting a world conspiracy to impoverish and reduce us to abject servitude. We live inside a hyperreality (psyop) based on a lie. A compromised top heavy bureaucratic surveillance monstrosity controlled by corrupt international financier's. That's why Mr. Fishback's phone call's/e-mails were ignored, why the marionette DNC talked over the top of Taibbi and Shellenberger at the Twitter File hearing's. It is the mad King George hubristic indifferent sterile narcissism of the new monarchy. Many of us will be starting out in evening but the change that will make the change will only happen when we change ourselves. Everything is exactly what it appears to be. It's not something else.
Reading both of Fishback's articles leaves me shaking me head in disbelief that such lunacy is so widespread. So accepted. His response of creating a rival organization built on sound principles is the good and proper solution. After reading this lunacy of the left you can also see an example of the lunacy of the right in this diatribe by MIke R. Sweeping generalization, ridiculous conspiracy theories and no noun left without it's own special adjective. Comment box blocked? Who could foresee that one coming?
There is no longer a "right" or "left" and I didn't describe any force in the equation not in play. You can call it anything you want but the house has rigged the game. This is no longer politic's it's pathology. It's self-interested open season on free speech, thought and the individual. The perp's will keep lining their pocket's and screaming over the top of human moral reason until they're stopped. These feature's on the subversion of and assault on free thought, idea's and debate are a perfect example's of one of many diseased tactic's employed by the would be monarchist's: Chaos wielding distortion and capture of the American national dialogue to prevent the conversation that will put human solutions on the table and create the future the world deserves.
Correct, but not enough. These revolutionary marxists are to be defeated in the idea battlefield... challenged, rebutted and defeated. The culture war is in hyper-speed mode. Leaving, public school for example, is a first step. Public funding of all education to be abolished. Period.
Sid, I'd love to see some enterprising students take the bigoted bull by the horns and (very) publicly invite their judges to debate them. And on what subject? Censorship In The Public Sphere. Put the whole thing up on YouTube.
You’re assuming that there would, in fact, actually be a debate on “censorship.” There wouldn’t be; any more than Girolamo Savonarola would be able to debate the truth that the church of his time espoused. It’s beyond them to be able to debate what - to them - is immutable, unquestionable truth. To give any other view a forum is, to them, obvious heresy. And, of course, we all know what must be done to heretics.
Actually, I’m assuming that there would not be a debate. That it would not be likely sanctimonious judges, for precisely the reasons you described, would agree. Ideology bordering on religion need not be defended - perhaps since the very act of defending would force them to find logical reasons for its defense. Difficult to do when a belief system becomes an article of unblinking faith with no proof required.
My proposition was based solely on publicly exposing these judges as incapable of logically arguing their own position. And how cool would it be for intelligent students to do it..
100% unlikely. People who know they are wrong and are purposely being manipulative and misleading know better than to put themselves into an actual debate
“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.” -Socrates
Ad hominem attacks are toward the person, not the idea. In all aspects of modern day life, the left has perfected the art of the ad hominem and made it part of the process. Curious young minds should not be exposed to this organization’s indoctrination. Participation is not just a waste of time, it is detrimental.
To be fair, Trump is pretty much an Ad Hominem attack personified. So, sadly the left does not have a monopoly on it.
I remember in speech class in college our teacher was pointing out the various fallacies and even back in the 90's I asked "When someone in the real world uses these, does anyone call them out? And if not, aren't you hindering us by limiting out tools to convince people?" I have hated Political debates ever since that class because all I see is a ocean of fallacies and no one calling them out.
There are easily found lists of logical fallacies. When I was teaching a high school law class, I encouraged the students to point out when their peers or I committed one or more. Boy, was that fun; and, sometimes personally very embarrassing. In that class, daily homework was a mandated hour of cable: a half hour of Fox and a half hour of MSNBC or CNN. Frankly, a class in basic legal principles morphed into finding fallacies and biases. Watching the morning classroom news battles was very entertaining. I'm in different classes now. I miss those days.
Trump attacked people , but he was always hitting back.... it’s definitely not the same thing as what the left does. There was not even anything to attack this kid on. There is nothing wrong with his tweet.
NAh, everyone thinks they are hitting back, leftists included. The person who says "I like starting trouble" is pretty rare. Much more common is "I'm a nice guy/girl, but I will fight back." We want justice for our neighbors and mercy for ourselves, and we all fight and imagine ourselves righteous. That is why forbearance and forgiveness are so very important.
I was a college debater from 1955 to 1960 and then a judge. I really cannot countenance what our young people are now subject to. Go ahead with your own debate league and leave these anti-intellectuals to stew in their own bigoted juices. You don’t need them. Good young minds don’t need them. Our nation doesn’t need them. I wish you every success.
If debaters are judged on ideology..telling them not to use the inoffensive terms like “Mr” or “ Miss” ! Then it is really a sad state of affairs ! And even going through their personal statements on social media is abominable and smacks of fascist censorship!
Yes , boycott the NSDA ! They certainly don’t seem to believe in free speech!
Good luck on sponsoring a real debate association!
They're going to need money...
BORROWING YOUR "REPLY" SID. MY COMMENTS BOX REMAINS BLOCKED.
I'm not sure we should remain hostage to communist /capitalist ping-pong thinking anymore. Both are controlled by blood thirsty 20th Century ideologues willing and able to hold the peoples of the world at nuclear gunpoint. After all, pretty is as pretty does. On the one hand the hidden CCP peoples rendition center and on the other the DNC/EU rigged game surveillance state being perped by the Davos crowd. They all go to dinner together. Only a fool would think Xi, Schwab, Gates and Fink aren't all disciples of the numbered account. Today, American's still unwilling to accept the truth/cover up of the Ukraine/China Biden connection might spend some time with the Michael Soussan book BACKSTABBING FOR BEGINNER'S which uncovered the political bribery and payoff piggies and perp's sucking down UNITED NATIONS Iraqi Food for Oil money worldwide. Billion's in American tax dollars stolen, again. Want to change it? Julian, Edward and the J/6 boy's and girl's didn't even get Vaseline.
What does this have to do with the assault on debate, free speech, youth and the American future? The useful idiot's on both side's are all unwitting apparatchik's for the same totalitarian grift. For the average American and European in realpolitik the words communist and capitalist don't mean anything anymore. The tactic's for repression are ideologically interchangeable. In the EU the attempted seizure's of farmland, thousands arrested and prosecuted for thought crimes, the German inform on your neighbor "snitch line". In America the feminist/DEI life cancellation machine, the tech platform/surveillance state list keeper, the DNC nod to the criminalization of citizenship. In China all the tactic's above, plus the bullet in the head. Tyranny by any other name is just as foul. In spiritual term's, it's perp's, all the way down.
We're American citizen's who live in a Constitutional Republic. Not communist's or capitalist's. (Do those two word's appear anywhere in the Constitution?) We are a PEOPLE fighting a world conspiracy to impoverish and reduce us to abject servitude. We live inside a hyperreality (psyop) based on a lie. A compromised top heavy bureaucratic surveillance monstrosity controlled by corrupt international financier's. That's why Mr. Fishback's phone call's/e-mails were ignored, why the marionette DNC talked over the top of Taibbi and Shellenberger at the Twitter File hearing's. It is the mad King George hubristic indifferent sterile narcissism of the new monarchy. Many of us will be starting out in evening but the change that will make the change will only happen when we change ourselves. Everything is exactly what it appears to be. It's not something else.
Reading both of Fishback's articles leaves me shaking me head in disbelief that such lunacy is so widespread. So accepted. His response of creating a rival organization built on sound principles is the good and proper solution. After reading this lunacy of the left you can also see an example of the lunacy of the right in this diatribe by MIke R. Sweeping generalization, ridiculous conspiracy theories and no noun left without it's own special adjective. Comment box blocked? Who could foresee that one coming?
There is no longer a "right" or "left" and I didn't describe any force in the equation not in play. You can call it anything you want but the house has rigged the game. This is no longer politic's it's pathology. It's self-interested open season on free speech, thought and the individual. The perp's will keep lining their pocket's and screaming over the top of human moral reason until they're stopped. These feature's on the subversion of and assault on free thought, idea's and debate are a perfect example's of one of many diseased tactic's employed by the would be monarchist's: Chaos wielding distortion and capture of the American national dialogue to prevent the conversation that will put human solutions on the table and create the future the world deserves.
Correct, but not enough. These revolutionary marxists are to be defeated in the idea battlefield... challenged, rebutted and defeated. The culture war is in hyper-speed mode. Leaving, public school for example, is a first step. Public funding of all education to be abolished. Period.
Sid, I'd love to see some enterprising students take the bigoted bull by the horns and (very) publicly invite their judges to debate them. And on what subject? Censorship In The Public Sphere. Put the whole thing up on YouTube.
Do you think any of these judges would sign on?
Not very likely.
Keep in mind, you are talking about 21st Century High School Debate Judges. Not exactly the highest echelon of intellect and accomplishment.
But coming more prevalent on a daily basis
Our poor world...
You’re assuming that there would, in fact, actually be a debate on “censorship.” There wouldn’t be; any more than Girolamo Savonarola would be able to debate the truth that the church of his time espoused. It’s beyond them to be able to debate what - to them - is immutable, unquestionable truth. To give any other view a forum is, to them, obvious heresy. And, of course, we all know what must be done to heretics.
Actually, I’m assuming that there would not be a debate. That it would not be likely sanctimonious judges, for precisely the reasons you described, would agree. Ideology bordering on religion need not be defended - perhaps since the very act of defending would force them to find logical reasons for its defense. Difficult to do when a belief system becomes an article of unblinking faith with no proof required.
My proposition was based solely on publicly exposing these judges as incapable of logically arguing their own position. And how cool would it be for intelligent students to do it..
100% unlikely. People who know they are wrong and are purposely being manipulative and misleading know better than to put themselves into an actual debate
“When the debate is lost, slander becomes the tool of the loser.” -Socrates
Ad hominem attacks are toward the person, not the idea. In all aspects of modern day life, the left has perfected the art of the ad hominem and made it part of the process. Curious young minds should not be exposed to this organization’s indoctrination. Participation is not just a waste of time, it is detrimental.
To be fair, Trump is pretty much an Ad Hominem attack personified. So, sadly the left does not have a monopoly on it.
I remember in speech class in college our teacher was pointing out the various fallacies and even back in the 90's I asked "When someone in the real world uses these, does anyone call them out? And if not, aren't you hindering us by limiting out tools to convince people?" I have hated Political debates ever since that class because all I see is a ocean of fallacies and no one calling them out.
There are easily found lists of logical fallacies. When I was teaching a high school law class, I encouraged the students to point out when their peers or I committed one or more. Boy, was that fun; and, sometimes personally very embarrassing. In that class, daily homework was a mandated hour of cable: a half hour of Fox and a half hour of MSNBC or CNN. Frankly, a class in basic legal principles morphed into finding fallacies and biases. Watching the morning classroom news battles was very entertaining. I'm in different classes now. I miss those days.
Trump attacked people , but he was always hitting back.... it’s definitely not the same thing as what the left does. There was not even anything to attack this kid on. There is nothing wrong with his tweet.
The dude was pre-attacking DeSantis before DS was even running. No, he is not always defending.
NAh, everyone thinks they are hitting back, leftists included. The person who says "I like starting trouble" is pretty rare. Much more common is "I'm a nice guy/girl, but I will fight back." We want justice for our neighbors and mercy for ourselves, and we all fight and imagine ourselves righteous. That is why forbearance and forgiveness are so very important.
Rosie o donnell is the example that comes to mind. I recall a lot of other examples that fall in that bucket.
"an ocean of fallacies" Yup!
Totally agree, littleoldMD!
If formal debaters do not know that an ad hominem argument is a basic logic fallacy then there is no debate standard
Yet, young adults have to learn. Sheltering them from what’s being done to them is worse.
This isn't sheltering, it's intimidation.
The intellectual dishonesty on display is appalling.