“. Like opportunity is a stick of kryptonite to these people if they were superman. They do everything they can to avoid it . . . None of them take your advice, none of them say thank you, and no one takes opportunities.”
Louis Anderson is another person who really got this. He wrote about offering free tickets to his show to people in his old neighborhood, when he was in town. He knew they would not come. He knew they wouldn’t leave their neighborhood. Highly recommend his books by the way.
I think Rob (author) is missing the point. A society that is more strongly class segregated offers less social mobility. The idea isn't for poor kids to try to make friends with rich kids so they can succeed. The idea is that a society that breaks down barriers that keep races and classes separated creates more opportunity. You can come up with thousands of examples of people accepting or rejecting opportunities but there is no doubt that breaking down class barriers creates opportunities for people that are otherwise unfairly locked out. How they respond to those opportunities is up to them...
I don’t know the magic elixir, but if I had to choose what’s most important for a kid, i would choose above all else two parents who can love you, help advocate for you, teach you self respect and boundaries and talk to you. They can be poor or rich white or brown, American or foreign, so long as they show love for their kids, engage with them and fight for them when necessary. (Granted there is a line between help and enable but I lean increasingly on the side of help, as in advocate—not handouts). My number two: school choice. Everything else is icing.
My brothers and I, immigrants from Italy, grew up in the same household and shared many of the same interests. We all worked manual labor in construction, and thought we'd be doing that the rest of our lives. That's what my father did in Italy, and his father, and many of our uncles. Then one day I decided to go to school for architecture. I was made fun of by them and my friends for wasting my money, working full time on the jobsite and going to class 2 to 3 days a week. It took me 8 years to earn my bachelor's degree in architectural technology, and that degree opened doors that would not have been available to me as a manual laborer. I now find myself in a rewarding career in real estate development while my brothers, in their early fifties, still work in construction (not that it's a bad thing, it just takes a toll on your body). I am thankful for the decision I made.
During my educational and career transitions I started to frequent different circles of friends than my brothers. I began to build professional relationships that would lead me further away from my old friends. I often look back and wonder why I'm not that close anymore with some of the friends my brothers are still friends with, and Rob's post helps shed some light on that. Thank you, Rob.
This is a classic correlation/causation problem. The first thing you learn in any Statistics class is that 'correlation is not always causation'. Of course, this rule is more or less universally broken by educated people all of time. Does having rich friends make a person more successful or does it just correlate with greater success? Who knows? Does Raj Chetty know? Does this article answer the question? No.
Thank you for writing this. It is such a complicated issue. Why do some people rise to the challenge of helping themselves when they discover it is possible to improve life’s circumstance and some shy away from the path even when shown the way. Human nature is a tricky thing. And hoping for your continued success.
I agree with the author but think that where you end up in life is more complicated. I grew up in an immigrant First generation neighborhood where most kids came from working class families. My best friend and I had fathers with Professional degrees and were fish out of water. My friend moved when we were in 5 th grade and we never saw each other for 20 years. At 30, I changed my career and moved to Los Angeles for a prestigious job in the Entertainment business where I coincidentally found my childhood friend who had done the same.!
We reunited as if no time had elapsed. We actually had taken similar career paths having gone to graduate school in counseling psychology. And suddenly we were in Los Angeles a long way from the Bronx where we grew up. Everyone we knew from childhood had never left the NY area and had gotten married and started families.
I, too, came from an environment where I did not have much and I had some family instability. I identified with friends from wealthier families and more stable families and I emulated that. So, I think there is something to this. I guess there is just an identity piece to it--which side do you identify with? The poor struggling side and peers in the same boat or the side of you that wants to rise?
Rob, I really like your stuff. My business partner and I both served. He was a Marine, and I was an Army paratrooper. We met later in the National Guard while attending college on the GI Bill. Your experiences are closer to his -- most of his childhood friends are dead, in jail or have been to jail -- but he and I formed a successful business together and have done well, thanks to the lessons the military taught us. (I had a similar lower middle-class upbringing, but I was lucky in that my dad was transferred to a good school zone when I was a preteen.) In any case, I can validate everything you wrote about the transformative nature of military service.
I was the first person in my family to go to college and tend to be a person who likes to help others so I met lots of people from all different backgrounds and cultures.
One summer, I was invited to work for a friend's father in San Francisco after I had helped their daughter pass a course in which she hadn't been doing well. When I arrived at the airport, there was a man in a suit holding a sign with my last name. He drove me to their house, which was in a very wealthy part of town. The "guest quarters" had a view of the Golden Gate Bridge, a jacuzzi, etc. I was blown away. They were definitely "old money" in that their house was very tasteful and not gaudy at all, and they expected their kids to work vs. just being "trust fund babies."
They took me to their Country Club one Sunday and it was probably the single most boring thing I've ever experienced. They had a maid but were somewhat upset that she lived in a warehouse and didn't understand why she didn't want a house or at least a nice apartment. I started talking to the maid and she was an artist who hung out with other artists, comics, writers, etc. She showed me the whole San Francisco "underground" scene back when it was still authentic.
That summer, I learned so much from BOTH the family and their maid, which directed me into a creative, but lucrative, field as an adult. Thinking back on the whole experience, it wasn't really the professors in college, or the people I later met in San Francisco, who "indoctrinated" me into anything--it was being exposed to lots of people who were different from myself but still, at their core "good people." The rich family helped me and several others, gave extensively to charity, etc. The artists took care of each other and accepted each others' eccentricities. People from other countries exposed me to their food, culture, language and ways of thought.
Throughout my 20s I lived in various places and would argue that travel can be just as good for social mobility as hanging around wealth. Now, as a middle-aged man, I have friends all over the globe--some more casual than others (I'd say five TRULY very close friends)--and always have a place to stay and good company wherever I go and that doesn't really cost much money at all.
I’m small-town Michigan, upper-middle but not rich, always had the expectation of college. I credit college rowing with cementing my work ethic of pushing at things that are too hard for me, but the real reason I ended up in the top of my field is people skills.
Ok that’s dumb but, Rob mentions something related that really hit home with me - his ability to steer the conversation in other directions when his own life and success comes up and find common ground. This social fluidity - can you talk to anyone - is incredibly key to success. And a lot of people who don’t move up in life can only talk to their kind of people.
It sounds strange but when I find a talented and hardworking person I may or may not help them out, but if that same person is also pleasant and easy to talk to, I absolutely will. Another example would be that people like to work with you - if you can talk to a famous person like you’d talk to anyone else, if you can get along with an intern as well as the boss, you can do the high level stuff.
Just thoughts. My childhood friends were like me, so that’s also interesting. I guess we all had the same expectations.
“. Like opportunity is a stick of kryptonite to these people if they were superman. They do everything they can to avoid it . . . None of them take your advice, none of them say thank you, and no one takes opportunities.”
Louis Anderson is another person who really got this. He wrote about offering free tickets to his show to people in his old neighborhood, when he was in town. He knew they would not come. He knew they wouldn’t leave their neighborhood. Highly recommend his books by the way.
there is a song in them thar lines Rich friends Poor friends something along the lines of good times bad times ?
Good article. However the bottom line of how to assist low level f - - - ups remains a mystery
I think Rob (author) is missing the point. A society that is more strongly class segregated offers less social mobility. The idea isn't for poor kids to try to make friends with rich kids so they can succeed. The idea is that a society that breaks down barriers that keep races and classes separated creates more opportunity. You can come up with thousands of examples of people accepting or rejecting opportunities but there is no doubt that breaking down class barriers creates opportunities for people that are otherwise unfairly locked out. How they respond to those opportunities is up to them...
I don’t know the magic elixir, but if I had to choose what’s most important for a kid, i would choose above all else two parents who can love you, help advocate for you, teach you self respect and boundaries and talk to you. They can be poor or rich white or brown, American or foreign, so long as they show love for their kids, engage with them and fight for them when necessary. (Granted there is a line between help and enable but I lean increasingly on the side of help, as in advocate—not handouts). My number two: school choice. Everything else is icing.
My brothers and I, immigrants from Italy, grew up in the same household and shared many of the same interests. We all worked manual labor in construction, and thought we'd be doing that the rest of our lives. That's what my father did in Italy, and his father, and many of our uncles. Then one day I decided to go to school for architecture. I was made fun of by them and my friends for wasting my money, working full time on the jobsite and going to class 2 to 3 days a week. It took me 8 years to earn my bachelor's degree in architectural technology, and that degree opened doors that would not have been available to me as a manual laborer. I now find myself in a rewarding career in real estate development while my brothers, in their early fifties, still work in construction (not that it's a bad thing, it just takes a toll on your body). I am thankful for the decision I made.
During my educational and career transitions I started to frequent different circles of friends than my brothers. I began to build professional relationships that would lead me further away from my old friends. I often look back and wonder why I'm not that close anymore with some of the friends my brothers are still friends with, and Rob's post helps shed some light on that. Thank you, Rob.
"not that it's a bad thing, it just takes a toll on your body" - True.
This is a classic correlation/causation problem. The first thing you learn in any Statistics class is that 'correlation is not always causation'. Of course, this rule is more or less universally broken by educated people all of time. Does having rich friends make a person more successful or does it just correlate with greater success? Who knows? Does Raj Chetty know? Does this article answer the question? No.
More from Rob Henderson!
Thank you for writing this. It is such a complicated issue. Why do some people rise to the challenge of helping themselves when they discover it is possible to improve life’s circumstance and some shy away from the path even when shown the way. Human nature is a tricky thing. And hoping for your continued success.
Great article by r Henderson
One line stood out for me
“ the military stripped him of all his choices”
Ironically I worked so hard to give my children choices. Turns out giving too many choices to kids was the worse things you can do
I agree with the author but think that where you end up in life is more complicated. I grew up in an immigrant First generation neighborhood where most kids came from working class families. My best friend and I had fathers with Professional degrees and were fish out of water. My friend moved when we were in 5 th grade and we never saw each other for 20 years. At 30, I changed my career and moved to Los Angeles for a prestigious job in the Entertainment business where I coincidentally found my childhood friend who had done the same.!
We reunited as if no time had elapsed. We actually had taken similar career paths having gone to graduate school in counseling psychology. And suddenly we were in Los Angeles a long way from the Bronx where we grew up. Everyone we knew from childhood had never left the NY area and had gotten married and started families.
It may not be just environment/culture.
Sometimes “you are what you eat. “
I, too, came from an environment where I did not have much and I had some family instability. I identified with friends from wealthier families and more stable families and I emulated that. So, I think there is something to this. I guess there is just an identity piece to it--which side do you identify with? The poor struggling side and peers in the same boat or the side of you that wants to rise?
Rob, I really like your stuff. My business partner and I both served. He was a Marine, and I was an Army paratrooper. We met later in the National Guard while attending college on the GI Bill. Your experiences are closer to his -- most of his childhood friends are dead, in jail or have been to jail -- but he and I formed a successful business together and have done well, thanks to the lessons the military taught us. (I had a similar lower middle-class upbringing, but I was lucky in that my dad was transferred to a good school zone when I was a preteen.) In any case, I can validate everything you wrote about the transformative nature of military service.
Interesting read but I’m trying to figure out what I’m supposed to take away from this piece. Maybe I missed something?
I was the first person in my family to go to college and tend to be a person who likes to help others so I met lots of people from all different backgrounds and cultures.
One summer, I was invited to work for a friend's father in San Francisco after I had helped their daughter pass a course in which she hadn't been doing well. When I arrived at the airport, there was a man in a suit holding a sign with my last name. He drove me to their house, which was in a very wealthy part of town. The "guest quarters" had a view of the Golden Gate Bridge, a jacuzzi, etc. I was blown away. They were definitely "old money" in that their house was very tasteful and not gaudy at all, and they expected their kids to work vs. just being "trust fund babies."
They took me to their Country Club one Sunday and it was probably the single most boring thing I've ever experienced. They had a maid but were somewhat upset that she lived in a warehouse and didn't understand why she didn't want a house or at least a nice apartment. I started talking to the maid and she was an artist who hung out with other artists, comics, writers, etc. She showed me the whole San Francisco "underground" scene back when it was still authentic.
That summer, I learned so much from BOTH the family and their maid, which directed me into a creative, but lucrative, field as an adult. Thinking back on the whole experience, it wasn't really the professors in college, or the people I later met in San Francisco, who "indoctrinated" me into anything--it was being exposed to lots of people who were different from myself but still, at their core "good people." The rich family helped me and several others, gave extensively to charity, etc. The artists took care of each other and accepted each others' eccentricities. People from other countries exposed me to their food, culture, language and ways of thought.
Throughout my 20s I lived in various places and would argue that travel can be just as good for social mobility as hanging around wealth. Now, as a middle-aged man, I have friends all over the globe--some more casual than others (I'd say five TRULY very close friends)--and always have a place to stay and good company wherever I go and that doesn't really cost much money at all.
I’m small-town Michigan, upper-middle but not rich, always had the expectation of college. I credit college rowing with cementing my work ethic of pushing at things that are too hard for me, but the real reason I ended up in the top of my field is people skills.
Ok that’s dumb but, Rob mentions something related that really hit home with me - his ability to steer the conversation in other directions when his own life and success comes up and find common ground. This social fluidity - can you talk to anyone - is incredibly key to success. And a lot of people who don’t move up in life can only talk to their kind of people.
It sounds strange but when I find a talented and hardworking person I may or may not help them out, but if that same person is also pleasant and easy to talk to, I absolutely will. Another example would be that people like to work with you - if you can talk to a famous person like you’d talk to anyone else, if you can get along with an intern as well as the boss, you can do the high level stuff.
Just thoughts. My childhood friends were like me, so that’s also interesting. I guess we all had the same expectations.