The Jews lost their kingdom when it was conquered by the Babylonians in 587 B.C. From then until 1948, the land belonged -- in succession -- to Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, the Byzantine Empire, Arabs, the Ottoman Empire and the British.
Sorry, just because your ancestors lived somewhere 2,500 years ago doesn't mean it's your land.
I mean, it is makes it so clear how your bias, ignorance and bigotry are directed only at the Jews. If the Jews could be forced to give up the land by conquest, so too could the Palestinians in more recent history.
Jews who support what amounts to genocide under the UN definition of that term are not good people. But that doesn't mean there aren't good Jews. It all comes down to behavior. I know of no other people so little inclined to consider why others dislike them. It's quite remarkable. Are all Jews like this? No. But plenty are.
Hilarious. Yet nowhere in your comments do you make that distinction, at least not till you were called out. Seems that before that, you were quite happy to tar every Jew with the same brush. I asked you in a different thread - what did Leon Klinghoffer have to do with Palestine that he was killed by Palestinian terrorists?
Show me where I failed to make the distinction. Leon Klinghoffer was an American citizen. Americans have given material support to the Jews' ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, so Americans have made themselves a target. If Americans don't want to be a target, they should prevail upon their government to stop helping the Jews ethnically cleanse Palestinians.
I thought I should clarify your thinking further. So you’re saying that an American who may have voted AGAINST an administration that is supporting the right of Israel to exist is a legitimate target? By that thinking, since Gaza elected Hamas, shouldn’t every person in Gaza be a legitimate target?
I would advise such an American to think twice before traveling. Unlike the Palestinians in Gaza, Americans can take precautions of that kind. So no, the situations are not the same. You really need to stop orienting all of your "thinking" to your desired outcome and instead engage in real thought that leads to the truth.
Orienting my thinking to my desired outcome? Really stupid of you to say that, since my thinking is premised on your reasoning. The fact your bias, ignorance and bigotry prevent you from taking your thought processes to their natural limits is not MY problem.
Do you know for a fact Klinghoffer DID give material support to Israel? Or are you, yet again, demonstrating the poverty of your intellectual processes? Your bigotry is showing.
The American government gave material support to Israel. Klinghoffer was an American. Americans were and are fair game, just as Germans were fair game during and after WW II. But I haven't heard Germans complaining about German civilians being expelled after the war from their centuries-old ancestral homes in what are now Poland and the Czech Republic, with many being brutally killed in the process. I haven't heard them complain about civilians being deliberately fire-bombed. But a few Americans overseas get killed and we never hear the end of it.
Germany was at war, having attacked the rest of Europe and Russia. So yes, the response was appropriate. Gaza, through Hamas has declared war on Israel. So by your logic, Gazans are fair game, more so than the US< which has not declared war on anyone.
Don't be a bad person, and I won't dislike you. It's really very simple. I don't want my tax dollars going to support Jews who are dispossessing Palestinians of their land and then bombing women and children when those Palestinians resist the oppression. I think it's disgusting. So should everyone else, Jewish or not Jewish.
That would be true if you were actually distinguishing from one Israel citizen to the next. But you aren’t. You’ve tarred them all, broadly, with one disgustingly misguided and bigoted brush. And if you were actually intellectually honest, you would recognize that, in the same way the Jews lost Israel when it was conquered, the Palestinians lost Israel when the British implemented the Balfour Declaration, requiring the creation of a Jewish state.
When I say, "the Jews" or "Jews" or "the Israelis" or "Israelis", I am not talking about every single Jew or Israeli citizen. You just want to read that into what I'm saying. When people say, "Whites had slaves", does that mean every single white had slaves? No, it doesn't. This "broad brush" accusation is just another technique your side uses to obfuscate. Its purpose is to force people not to talk about Jews at all except in the most laudatory terms. As for the Balfour Declaration, I suggest you actually read it. It said a Jewish homeland was not to impair the rights of Palestinians. The Jews were supposed to share the land with the Palestinians and be good neighbors. But they chose not to.
If you aren't making the distinction in your comments, you can't blame people for taking your words at face value. That you think Klinghoffer, whose involvement, or lack thereof, in Israel you COULDN'T POSSIBLY know seems, per your words, a legitimate target, says you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.
If the citizens of a nation don't want to become targets, they should take care that their leaders don't support the dispossession of another people. Americans have expressed little to no interest in reining in political leaders who not only support the oppression of Palestinians but of many, many other people around the world. Actions (and inactions) have consequences. Or, to put it another way, bad karma is a b*tch. And Americans are paying the price right now. Just compare America of 1950 to America today.
I see. So by that thinking, then, all the citizens of Gaza should be fair targets. Thank you for clarifying that. Like I said - bias, ignorance and bigotry.
They haven't lost it yet. They're still there. Jews are going to have to stop being cowards and actually go down into those tunnels like American "tunnel rats" did in Vietnam if they want to succeed.
How funny. So you’ve switched from principle - that they should NOT lose it - to situation - they haven’t lost it yet, pretty much conceding the idea that they have no right to it, in the same way you suggest the Jews had no right to it when they were conquered. Funny how ignorance demands deflection and diversion…
I never said the Jews had no right to the land when they were conquered. They had a right to it. But that right isn't worth anything if you can't defend it. The Jews of Europe had a right not to be put in camps by the Germans. And we condemn the Germans for putting them in camps. But they were put in camps anyway and they were unable to stop the Germans from doing this. Well, the Palestinians have managed to stop the Jews from completely taking over their land. They haven't lost it yet. But here I am repeating myself. That usually happens when a comment section is being astroturfed.
And how amusing. Because you think they've not defended it to-date, they lose the right to it? The reason they've not defended it as effectively is they are taking pains to minimize civilian casualties in their pursuit of Hamas. Frankly, that you choose not to recognize that says so much about your bias, ignorance and bigotry.
You need to read more carefully. I was talking about the Palestinians defending themselves and their land against the Jewish aggressors. The whole concept of those Jewish aggressors being defenders is therefore absurd. As for your claim that the Israelis have been taking pains to minimize civilian casualties, dropping 2,000-pound bombs on apartment buildings occupied by civilians is not "taking pains to minimize civilian casualties". Neither is instituting a food blockade, cutting off water and electricity, bombing churches and killing UN aid workers. The IDF has been so indiscriminate in its killing that it even killed three Jewish hostages who had escaped or been released and were waving a white flag and begging not to be shot.
Amusing. So going back to 1920, what right or reason did the Palestinians have to riot in Jerusalem in March - the "Bloody Passover"? What right did they have to kill five Jews? And if Hamas stopped attacking Israel, perhaps the Gazans would not have to suffer the consequences of their actions - the food blockade (seriously? Israel is providing aid as we speak), the interruption to power and water. And if UN aid workers weren't working with Hamas, then maybe they wouldn't get killed. And if Hamas didn't hide among civilians, maybe those civilians - whom they are SUPPOSED to be protecting - wouldn't be victims.
Britian issued the Balfour Declaration in 1917. I don't blame the Palestinians for not welcoming the Jewish invasion. Regarding the riot in 1920, Jews should have taken the hint. If Israelis don't want to be attacked, they should stop dispossessing and ethnically cleansing the Palestinians. They should go back to where they came from. Or stay but stop whining and stop demanding money from Americans -- most of whom are not even Jewish. In fact, a lot of Palestinians are Christian and America should be on their side.
Ah, so it’s ok for people to attack the Jews, but not ok for the Jews to retaliate. It’s ok for the Jews to be displaced, but not ok for the Jews to do the same to others. You really are hilarious. Biased, ignorant, bigoted…and hilarious.
Ah, so they DO have the right to the state of Israel. Glad we cleared that up. So maybe then we can also agree the Palestinians should focus on electing a productive government of its own, one that will take the hundreds of millions of dollars in aid and use it for the Palestinians in Gaza, and not to enrich themselves and p-ss off their Israel neighbor.
The Jews never had a right to dispossess the Palestinians and take their land. But, with the help of Britain and, later, the U.S., they managed to take over a lot of that land. A lot, but not all. And the land where the Palestinians still reside is going to be defended by the Palestinians. That is as it should be. Israel can only defeat the Palestinians by killing them all. It can do that, but then it will become a pariah state. No one will want anything to do with it. And people will no longer be friendly to Jews. This seems to me like a bad way to go for the Jews. But it's their funeral, not mine.
Hang on - you said that the Jews lost the right to the land when they were dispossessed by invaders - the Babylonians among them. The Palestinians were similarly dispossessed by the British. If the British had no right to dispossess the Palestinians, then neither did the Babylonians, and the land should still be the Jews’ rightful home.
Nice try. I didn't say the Jews lost the right to the land when they were conquered. I said that right was no longer worth anything. Neither Britain nor the Jews have conquered the Palestinians. The Palestinians are still a military force to be reckoned with.
They exist only by Israel’s forbearance. And if they had the right but, because they could not defend it, it was not worth anything, then you should concede their ability to defend it today means their right to stay is confirmed.
You mean the land that was the Jews from the time of King David?
The Jews lost their kingdom when it was conquered by the Babylonians in 587 B.C. From then until 1948, the land belonged -- in succession -- to Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, the Byzantine Empire, Arabs, the Ottoman Empire and the British.
Sorry, just because your ancestors lived somewhere 2,500 years ago doesn't mean it's your land.
I mean, it is makes it so clear how your bias, ignorance and bigotry are directed only at the Jews. If the Jews could be forced to give up the land by conquest, so too could the Palestinians in more recent history.
If Jews are disliked, it's because of their behavior, not because of "bias, ignorance and bigotry."
…and are you in the habit of tarring an entire race or nation with the same brush? Do you do that with other races - blacks or Asians, for example?
Jews who support what amounts to genocide under the UN definition of that term are not good people. But that doesn't mean there aren't good Jews. It all comes down to behavior. I know of no other people so little inclined to consider why others dislike them. It's quite remarkable. Are all Jews like this? No. But plenty are.
Hilarious. Yet nowhere in your comments do you make that distinction, at least not till you were called out. Seems that before that, you were quite happy to tar every Jew with the same brush. I asked you in a different thread - what did Leon Klinghoffer have to do with Palestine that he was killed by Palestinian terrorists?
Show me where I failed to make the distinction. Leon Klinghoffer was an American citizen. Americans have given material support to the Jews' ethnic cleansing of Palestinians, so Americans have made themselves a target. If Americans don't want to be a target, they should prevail upon their government to stop helping the Jews ethnically cleanse Palestinians.
I thought I should clarify your thinking further. So you’re saying that an American who may have voted AGAINST an administration that is supporting the right of Israel to exist is a legitimate target? By that thinking, since Gaza elected Hamas, shouldn’t every person in Gaza be a legitimate target?
I would advise such an American to think twice before traveling. Unlike the Palestinians in Gaza, Americans can take precautions of that kind. So no, the situations are not the same. You really need to stop orienting all of your "thinking" to your desired outcome and instead engage in real thought that leads to the truth.
Orienting my thinking to my desired outcome? Really stupid of you to say that, since my thinking is premised on your reasoning. The fact your bias, ignorance and bigotry prevent you from taking your thought processes to their natural limits is not MY problem.
Do you know for a fact Klinghoffer DID give material support to Israel? Or are you, yet again, demonstrating the poverty of your intellectual processes? Your bigotry is showing.
The American government gave material support to Israel. Klinghoffer was an American. Americans were and are fair game, just as Germans were fair game during and after WW II. But I haven't heard Germans complaining about German civilians being expelled after the war from their centuries-old ancestral homes in what are now Poland and the Czech Republic, with many being brutally killed in the process. I haven't heard them complain about civilians being deliberately fire-bombed. But a few Americans overseas get killed and we never hear the end of it.
Germany was at war, having attacked the rest of Europe and Russia. So yes, the response was appropriate. Gaza, through Hamas has declared war on Israel. So by your logic, Gazans are fair game, more so than the US< which has not declared war on anyone.
Oh, I don’t know. You don’t like them, and that’s all you seem to have…bias, ignorance and bigotry.
Don't be a bad person, and I won't dislike you. It's really very simple. I don't want my tax dollars going to support Jews who are dispossessing Palestinians of their land and then bombing women and children when those Palestinians resist the oppression. I think it's disgusting. So should everyone else, Jewish or not Jewish.
That would be true if you were actually distinguishing from one Israel citizen to the next. But you aren’t. You’ve tarred them all, broadly, with one disgustingly misguided and bigoted brush. And if you were actually intellectually honest, you would recognize that, in the same way the Jews lost Israel when it was conquered, the Palestinians lost Israel when the British implemented the Balfour Declaration, requiring the creation of a Jewish state.
When I say, "the Jews" or "Jews" or "the Israelis" or "Israelis", I am not talking about every single Jew or Israeli citizen. You just want to read that into what I'm saying. When people say, "Whites had slaves", does that mean every single white had slaves? No, it doesn't. This "broad brush" accusation is just another technique your side uses to obfuscate. Its purpose is to force people not to talk about Jews at all except in the most laudatory terms. As for the Balfour Declaration, I suggest you actually read it. It said a Jewish homeland was not to impair the rights of Palestinians. The Jews were supposed to share the land with the Palestinians and be good neighbors. But they chose not to.
If you aren't making the distinction in your comments, you can't blame people for taking your words at face value. That you think Klinghoffer, whose involvement, or lack thereof, in Israel you COULDN'T POSSIBLY know seems, per your words, a legitimate target, says you are talking out of both sides of your mouth.
If the citizens of a nation don't want to become targets, they should take care that their leaders don't support the dispossession of another people. Americans have expressed little to no interest in reining in political leaders who not only support the oppression of Palestinians but of many, many other people around the world. Actions (and inactions) have consequences. Or, to put it another way, bad karma is a b*tch. And Americans are paying the price right now. Just compare America of 1950 to America today.
I see. So by that thinking, then, all the citizens of Gaza should be fair targets. Thank you for clarifying that. Like I said - bias, ignorance and bigotry.
And the Palestinians lost it when it was given back to Israel. Tough cookies.
They haven't lost it yet. They're still there. Jews are going to have to stop being cowards and actually go down into those tunnels like American "tunnel rats" did in Vietnam if they want to succeed.
How funny. So you’ve switched from principle - that they should NOT lose it - to situation - they haven’t lost it yet, pretty much conceding the idea that they have no right to it, in the same way you suggest the Jews had no right to it when they were conquered. Funny how ignorance demands deflection and diversion…
I never said the Jews had no right to the land when they were conquered. They had a right to it. But that right isn't worth anything if you can't defend it. The Jews of Europe had a right not to be put in camps by the Germans. And we condemn the Germans for putting them in camps. But they were put in camps anyway and they were unable to stop the Germans from doing this. Well, the Palestinians have managed to stop the Jews from completely taking over their land. They haven't lost it yet. But here I am repeating myself. That usually happens when a comment section is being astroturfed.
And how amusing. Because you think they've not defended it to-date, they lose the right to it? The reason they've not defended it as effectively is they are taking pains to minimize civilian casualties in their pursuit of Hamas. Frankly, that you choose not to recognize that says so much about your bias, ignorance and bigotry.
You need to read more carefully. I was talking about the Palestinians defending themselves and their land against the Jewish aggressors. The whole concept of those Jewish aggressors being defenders is therefore absurd. As for your claim that the Israelis have been taking pains to minimize civilian casualties, dropping 2,000-pound bombs on apartment buildings occupied by civilians is not "taking pains to minimize civilian casualties". Neither is instituting a food blockade, cutting off water and electricity, bombing churches and killing UN aid workers. The IDF has been so indiscriminate in its killing that it even killed three Jewish hostages who had escaped or been released and were waving a white flag and begging not to be shot.
Amusing. So going back to 1920, what right or reason did the Palestinians have to riot in Jerusalem in March - the "Bloody Passover"? What right did they have to kill five Jews? And if Hamas stopped attacking Israel, perhaps the Gazans would not have to suffer the consequences of their actions - the food blockade (seriously? Israel is providing aid as we speak), the interruption to power and water. And if UN aid workers weren't working with Hamas, then maybe they wouldn't get killed. And if Hamas didn't hide among civilians, maybe those civilians - whom they are SUPPOSED to be protecting - wouldn't be victims.
Britian issued the Balfour Declaration in 1917. I don't blame the Palestinians for not welcoming the Jewish invasion. Regarding the riot in 1920, Jews should have taken the hint. If Israelis don't want to be attacked, they should stop dispossessing and ethnically cleansing the Palestinians. They should go back to where they came from. Or stay but stop whining and stop demanding money from Americans -- most of whom are not even Jewish. In fact, a lot of Palestinians are Christian and America should be on their side.
Ah, so it’s ok for people to attack the Jews, but not ok for the Jews to retaliate. It’s ok for the Jews to be displaced, but not ok for the Jews to do the same to others. You really are hilarious. Biased, ignorant, bigoted…and hilarious.
Ah, so they DO have the right to the state of Israel. Glad we cleared that up. So maybe then we can also agree the Palestinians should focus on electing a productive government of its own, one that will take the hundreds of millions of dollars in aid and use it for the Palestinians in Gaza, and not to enrich themselves and p-ss off their Israel neighbor.
The Jews never had a right to dispossess the Palestinians and take their land. But, with the help of Britain and, later, the U.S., they managed to take over a lot of that land. A lot, but not all. And the land where the Palestinians still reside is going to be defended by the Palestinians. That is as it should be. Israel can only defeat the Palestinians by killing them all. It can do that, but then it will become a pariah state. No one will want anything to do with it. And people will no longer be friendly to Jews. This seems to me like a bad way to go for the Jews. But it's their funeral, not mine.
Hang on - you said that the Jews lost the right to the land when they were dispossessed by invaders - the Babylonians among them. The Palestinians were similarly dispossessed by the British. If the British had no right to dispossess the Palestinians, then neither did the Babylonians, and the land should still be the Jews’ rightful home.
Nice try. I didn't say the Jews lost the right to the land when they were conquered. I said that right was no longer worth anything. Neither Britain nor the Jews have conquered the Palestinians. The Palestinians are still a military force to be reckoned with.
They exist only by Israel’s forbearance. And if they had the right but, because they could not defend it, it was not worth anything, then you should concede their ability to defend it today means their right to stay is confirmed.