I'm not the one who brought the subject up. The person who did appears to strongly disagree with estimates that have been made of the number of Palestinians killed in Gaza. So, it's not unreasonable for me to ask that person what they think a credible estimate might be.
If you and that person have a problem with that, then I would say you and that person are the ones who have an agenda.
I'm not the one who brought the subject up. The person who did appears to strongly disagree with estimates that have been made of the number of Palestinians killed in Gaza. So, it's not unreasonable for me to ask that person what they think a credible estimate might be.
If you and that person have a problem with that, then I would say you and that person are the ones who have an agenda.
So, what might that estimate be? And if there isn't one, what number would you choose?
If you have a very strong opinion that a given number is wrong, then you must have in mind a number or range of numbers that you would consider to be more or less right.
"Wrong" cannot logically exist except in relation to its antonym "right". So, what is "right" in your opinion?
The topic of conversation here was the notion of a credulous press just repeating what it has been told by less than honest sources. The Gaza Health Ministry is one such source. That you can't figure that out makes you less credible than you think.
Then again, you believed that UNRWAbet.com was a real website. Not much to say other than that.
On what basis do you claim that the Gaza Health Ministry is "less than honest"?
I have no idea whether it's honest or not. I do know, however, that you are not honest.
You cited UNRWAbet.com in the form of a link, all the while knowing it didn't link to anything. So, now you admit to lying in addition to simply making things up.
If you're going to troll, at least come up with something clever.
There are many stories out there which cast doubt on the reporting of the Gaza Health Ministry. The fact that a terrorist organization manages it should also raise some doubts in your mind.
That said - your inability to read critically, your lack of nuance, understanding of commonplace gambling terms like over/under, and common sense leads me to believe you are a Bot.
"There are many stories" isn't evidence or proof of anything. And calling a people who are resisting their own dispossession by outside invaders "terrorists" is the opposite of telling the truth. But then, I suppose you would have considered Polish Jewish partisan fighters resisting the Nazi occupation of Poland terrorists. Since you seem so eager to minimize Israel's criminal acts against Palestinian civilians, I wonder what you think about those who minimize the Holocaust. It seems that you're in the same league with such people. How exquisitely ironic.
What I do find interesting in Hamas's number, is their claim of so many more women and children than men. Doesn't that automatically prove that the men are hiding in tunnels?
My google search tells me 47% of the population of Gaza are under eighteen years old. If women are half of the remaining population, then adult men make up only a little over 26% of the population. And, yes, I would expect most of the Hamas fighters who are hiding in the tunnels to be adult men.
The percentages don’t matter. What matters is that Hamas started a war, and those who share your obviously misguided opinions about culpability have fallen for their propaganda.
The war started in 1948 when Jewish terrorists massacred the inhabitants of the Palestinian village of Deir Yassin. They even attacked the British, who had been nice enough (and foolish enough) to invite them into the country. As Henry Kissinger (who was Jewish) once said, "A people that is persecuted for 2,000 years must be doing something wrong."
Oh and your statement “the war started in 1948” manifests yet again your ignorance of history. Here are a few choice nuggets:British Palestine (1917-1948)
Crisis Phase (November 2, 1917-April 19, 1936): Jewish nationalists began a struggle for a Jewish state in Palestine following the issuance by the British government of the Balfour Declaration on November 2, 1917. In the document, the British government declared its support for the establishment of a “national home for the Jewish people” in Palestine. Palestinian Arabs rioted in Jerusalem in March 1920 (“Bloody Passover”), resulting in the deaths of five Palestinian Jews and four Palestinian Arabs.
How amusing. So you justify killing people today who had nothing to do with an attack in 1948. That attack had nothing to do with the establishment of the state of Israel. And you say nothing about the reprisal attack on the Hadassah medical convoy, which killed 78 Jews. Like I said - it is amusing how you reserve your ignorance and bigotry just for the Jews.
The people who "had nothing to do with the attack on 1948" have plenty to do with turning Gaza into an open-air prison and periodically "mowing the lawn" by bombing its civilian population.
Really? So you don’t blame Hamas, who received tens, even hundreds of millions of dollars in donations and aid, who then promptly put it towards tunnels and rockets? You don’t blame Hamas, for locating themselves amidst their own civilians? Like I said - your bias, ignorance and bigotry. Hilarious.
Gaza isn't big enough for Hamas to separate itself from civilians. But I'm sure you already knew that. The Palestinians can't resist Israeli aggression without tunnels and rockets. So, there is nothing wrong with them spending money on such things. It's unfortunate that Palestinians in the West Bank don't have the same opportunity.
Israeli estimates are roughly 25K terrorists, many of whom are 18 and under (therefore "children" according to Hamas). Collateral deaths of civilians are under 10K, and about 5-6K are deaths from natural causes, also included by Hamas in the total death toll. Population of Gaza is over 2 million. So there's the "genocide".
The Jews lost their kingdom when it was conquered by the Babylonians in 587 B.C. From then until 1948, the land belonged -- in succession -- to Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, the Byzantine Empire, Arabs, the Ottoman Empire and the British.
Sorry, just because your ancestors lived somewhere 2,500 years ago doesn't mean it's your land.
I mean, it is makes it so clear how your bias, ignorance and bigotry are directed only at the Jews. If the Jews could be forced to give up the land by conquest, so too could the Palestinians in more recent history.
They haven't lost it yet. They're still there. Jews are going to have to stop being cowards and actually go down into those tunnels like American "tunnel rats" did in Vietnam if they want to succeed.
I saw a documentary about Gaza from 2019 and one of the featured residents was a man who had 3 wives and 40 children. He said he would consider a fourth wife if he had more room.
I'm not the one who brought the subject up. The person who did appears to strongly disagree with estimates that have been made of the number of Palestinians killed in Gaza. So, it's not unreasonable for me to ask that person what they think a credible estimate might be.
If you and that person have a problem with that, then I would say you and that person are the ones who have an agenda.
Oh, c'mon. An estimated made by a source other than Hamas might possibly be credible, depending upon what it was.
So, what might that estimate be? And if there isn't one, what number would you choose?
If you have a very strong opinion that a given number is wrong, then you must have in mind a number or range of numbers that you would consider to be more or less right.
"Wrong" cannot logically exist except in relation to its antonym "right". So, what is "right" in your opinion?
Why is this so hard for you guys?
The death toll is what it is. And whatever it is, it is Hamas, and the nation that elected Hamas, that are responsible for every single life lost.
"Is what it is" is not a number.
If Jews had not dispossessed Palestinians of their land in the first place, not a single "poor, victimized" Jew would have died on October 7.
Your comment is amusing, but then again even anti-Semites are entitled to their opinions, however wrong.
Arabs are Semites and I have nothing against them. So, I'm afraid you're barking up the wrong tree.
So I guess you reserve your bigotry and ignorance exclusively for the Jews? Hmm…interesting.
I’ll stick with 80 trillion, with the caveat that I made it up, just like the Gaza Health Ministry does.
Unlike you, they haven't admitted to making things up.
You've just -- by your own admission -- made yourself less credible than they are.
The topic of conversation here was the notion of a credulous press just repeating what it has been told by less than honest sources. The Gaza Health Ministry is one such source. That you can't figure that out makes you less credible than you think.
Then again, you believed that UNRWAbet.com was a real website. Not much to say other than that.
On what basis do you claim that the Gaza Health Ministry is "less than honest"?
I have no idea whether it's honest or not. I do know, however, that you are not honest.
You cited UNRWAbet.com in the form of a link, all the while knowing it didn't link to anything. So, now you admit to lying in addition to simply making things up.
If you're going to troll, at least come up with something clever.
There are many stories out there which cast doubt on the reporting of the Gaza Health Ministry. The fact that a terrorist organization manages it should also raise some doubts in your mind.
That said - your inability to read critically, your lack of nuance, understanding of commonplace gambling terms like over/under, and common sense leads me to believe you are a Bot.
"There are many stories" isn't evidence or proof of anything. And calling a people who are resisting their own dispossession by outside invaders "terrorists" is the opposite of telling the truth. But then, I suppose you would have considered Polish Jewish partisan fighters resisting the Nazi occupation of Poland terrorists. Since you seem so eager to minimize Israel's criminal acts against Palestinian civilians, I wonder what you think about those who minimize the Holocaust. It seems that you're in the same league with such people. How exquisitely ironic.
Your comment makes it clear. You are a brown shirt. Fuck off.
LOL. Your name-calling has no effect on me. It's played out - like the overused "racism". You need to come up with new material.
What I do find interesting in Hamas's number, is their claim of so many more women and children than men. Doesn't that automatically prove that the men are hiding in tunnels?
My google search tells me 47% of the population of Gaza are under eighteen years old. If women are half of the remaining population, then adult men make up only a little over 26% of the population. And, yes, I would expect most of the Hamas fighters who are hiding in the tunnels to be adult men.
What basis do you have for your expectation? Do you have any data? Any references you can cite?
Google will give you the percentages.
As a matter of fact, I think I already mentioned that ("My google search ...").
The percentages don’t matter. What matters is that Hamas started a war, and those who share your obviously misguided opinions about culpability have fallen for their propaganda.
The war started in 1948 when Jewish terrorists massacred the inhabitants of the Palestinian village of Deir Yassin. They even attacked the British, who had been nice enough (and foolish enough) to invite them into the country. As Henry Kissinger (who was Jewish) once said, "A people that is persecuted for 2,000 years must be doing something wrong."
Oh and your statement “the war started in 1948” manifests yet again your ignorance of history. Here are a few choice nuggets:British Palestine (1917-1948)
Crisis Phase (November 2, 1917-April 19, 1936): Jewish nationalists began a struggle for a Jewish state in Palestine following the issuance by the British government of the Balfour Declaration on November 2, 1917. In the document, the British government declared its support for the establishment of a “national home for the Jewish people” in Palestine. Palestinian Arabs rioted in Jerusalem in March 1920 (“Bloody Passover”), resulting in the deaths of five Palestinian Jews and four Palestinian Arabs.
It wasn't an outright war until 1948. Riots are not wars.
Ah. So killing Jews was ok before that, then?
Once the Palestinians knew of the plans by the British to allow the Jews to invade their land, yes.
How amusing. So you justify killing people today who had nothing to do with an attack in 1948. That attack had nothing to do with the establishment of the state of Israel. And you say nothing about the reprisal attack on the Hadassah medical convoy, which killed 78 Jews. Like I said - it is amusing how you reserve your ignorance and bigotry just for the Jews.
The people who "had nothing to do with the attack on 1948" have plenty to do with turning Gaza into an open-air prison and periodically "mowing the lawn" by bombing its civilian population.
Here’s a good question for you. What did Leon Klinghoffer have to do with the plight of the Palestinians?
He was an American, and America was helping the Jews ethnically cleanse Palestinians.
Really? So you don’t blame Hamas, who received tens, even hundreds of millions of dollars in donations and aid, who then promptly put it towards tunnels and rockets? You don’t blame Hamas, for locating themselves amidst their own civilians? Like I said - your bias, ignorance and bigotry. Hilarious.
Gaza isn't big enough for Hamas to separate itself from civilians. But I'm sure you already knew that. The Palestinians can't resist Israeli aggression without tunnels and rockets. So, there is nothing wrong with them spending money on such things. It's unfortunate that Palestinians in the West Bank don't have the same opportunity.
Israeli estimates are roughly 25K terrorists, many of whom are 18 and under (therefore "children" according to Hamas). Collateral deaths of civilians are under 10K, and about 5-6K are deaths from natural causes, also included by Hamas in the total death toll. Population of Gaza is over 2 million. So there's the "genocide".
People under 18 are, in fact, children.
I don't know how you can call people killed as the result of dropping a 2,000-pound bomb on an apartment building "collateral damage".
I call it deliberate murder.
Your techniques of obfuscation would serve as a very fine example in George Orwell's essay "Politics and the English Language".
It's past time that we stop letting Zionists run the United States -- and all the other Anglophone countries.
Then Hamas shouldn’t have attacked Israel. Whatever the number is, whoever has died, it is Hamas that is responsible.
If you want to talk about who is responsible for what, Jews dispossessing Palestinians of their land is the place to start.
You mean the land that was the Jews from the time of King David?
The Jews lost their kingdom when it was conquered by the Babylonians in 587 B.C. From then until 1948, the land belonged -- in succession -- to Babylonians, Persians, Greeks, Romans, the Byzantine Empire, Arabs, the Ottoman Empire and the British.
Sorry, just because your ancestors lived somewhere 2,500 years ago doesn't mean it's your land.
I mean, it is makes it so clear how your bias, ignorance and bigotry are directed only at the Jews. If the Jews could be forced to give up the land by conquest, so too could the Palestinians in more recent history.
If Jews are disliked, it's because of their behavior, not because of "bias, ignorance and bigotry."
And the Palestinians lost it when it was given back to Israel. Tough cookies.
They haven't lost it yet. They're still there. Jews are going to have to stop being cowards and actually go down into those tunnels like American "tunnel rats" did in Vietnam if they want to succeed.
I saw a documentary about Gaza from 2019 and one of the featured residents was a man who had 3 wives and 40 children. He said he would consider a fourth wife if he had more room.