Vance point on abortion and Republicans was spot on . Many Republicans will criticize this but in the Republican party there is not enough talk about what abortion is , why it is , and how to prevent it . Laws will not stop it , but changing the social acceptance of or better the acknowledgment of the need for limited abortions will help in moving this argument forward for Republicans polices on making abortion something that is rare and just not needed for the future of the US. This will not be a light switch change it has to evolve and Republicans must be ready to lead this to evolve into something that will respect life as best as possible for our society today .
VP debates are always weird because they are not debating for themselves but as proxies for their bosses. Walz's best moments were when he was able to cite exceptional things about Minnesota and what he did, but not much about Kamala haha
Did anyone else wish the tickets were flipped, with these two on top instead of Trump and Harris? All of us watching last night were so pleased with the civil, adult debate that actually focused on policy instead of name-calling and idiotic nonsense and hyperbole. I'd even take a Vance/Walz ticket over Trump or Harris.
It's not plausible to mistake being in Nebraska for being in Hong Kong during the Tiananmen Square uprising, any more than it's plausible to mistake not being in combat for being in combat. Excusing lying by saying one has "misspoken" or gotten caught up in the rhetoric is unacceptable in a teenager, let alone a political leader. Indeed, Walz also apparently "misspoke" in saying he has a child conceived by IVF -- which he is championing politically -- when in fact his daughter was conceived through artificial insemination, a much less invasive and controversial procedure. Perhaps he doesn't understand the difference, though -- given his intimate involvement in the process -- that strains credulity.
A politician who repeatedly becomes truth-challenged under pressure, and then -- upon being found out -- excuses the resulting lies as misspeaking or getting caught up in rhetoric is not suitable for vice president. Harris did herself no favors in choosing Walz as her running mate. Conversely, Vance is a powerful asset to Trump, whom he far excels in intelligence and oratory.
Curious that you saw Vance as the clear winner in the debate. Yes, he was far more comfortable and polished, yet mostly stuck to talking points instead of giving actual answers. You note Walz's worst moment as regarding the misstatement over a trip to China while missing Vance's worst moment of clumsily changing the subject when asked to acknowledge that Trump lost the last election. If you want to call Walz a liar, so be it, but why ignore the lie at the literal core of the Trump/Vance campaign? While you're assessing Walz, remember that Vance maintains he would not have certified the legal 2020 election. Should a declaration that he would not uphold the Constitution concern voters? I'd say yes.
Your point on upholding the Constitution is pretty weak considering how the Binden/Harris last 4 years shakes out , with them ignoring supreme court rulings and there constant suppression of free speech that they are all about . Did Trump ignore the Constitution during his 4 years ? Again and again Dems bring up he said with cherry picked sound bits and implying but when you taking the whole sound talk it is a fail . Really sick of even hearing about that BS that are just lies , and listening to MSM repeat these fact checked verified lies again and again . And yes Walz is a constant liar about many things like he didn't sign that abortion bill that has his signature on it, how could you lie about that , yes a true knuckle head he is , which isn't a lie .
Despite literal mountains of evidence to the contrary, Trump maintains to this day that the election was stolen. He makes everyone around him parrot that lie. He literally fomented a riot in an attempt to subvert the election and now claims he wants to pardon everyone involved. What's weak about the point that Vance, in signing on to that lie, chooses it over the Constitution?
Always back to the election was stolen , OH wait didn't 2 Dems that lost in the last 20 years also say this ? Funny how it's only Trump name that comes up to for this . Isn't this just politics ?
Just as the 2028 cycle Democrat primary began with Newsome and Whitmer desperately stepping out of the way of being obligated to run as a proxy incumbent for Joe Biden this was the beginning of the 2028 Republican cycle primary. Vance has his MAGA cachet well locked down, now he goes for the middle and buries the man who gave him this platform without ever saying a bad word about him.
It was not close. America saw a future President on the stage last night in J.D. Vance, like when Obama first spoke to the Democratic convention. It saw a winning brand of Republicanism. It also saw yet another bad decision by Kamala Harris, who makes few choices but seems to fail at all of them. There is so much antipathy for Trump that she may yet win, but last night a star was born.
"This is the point in the analysis where I am duty-bound to inform you that VP debates don’t matter very much. "
In normal times I would agree. But we do not live in normal times so I disagree 100%. The VPs in this election matter for two reasons: Age of one candidate and a complete lack of experience with the other. There is higher probability in this election one of these two men will end up becoming POTUS before the next election.
Random aside that doesn't really matter: those post debate "who won" snap polls are useless. Vance won (when the NYT is admitting the Republican won a debate, it was pretty lopsided) and I believe CNN's poll was like 42-41 Vance. Hardly the first time they've returned a result wildly at odds with what happened.
My guess would be debates tend to be watched by political obsessives (guilty), and NeverTrump Republicans are disproportionately political obsessives, and consequently they get wildly overrepresented as "Republicans" in those polls. But that's just a guess.
Either way, I enjoyed this debate, from both guys. Hopefully it becomes the norm again.
Wish there yet again there wasn't the one side fact checking and cutting the mic off during a pivotal moment during which one side brought out how immigration through an app works today . Yet just like the ABC debate just crap moderators . Yes Vance still prevails even through we had 3 against 1 again .
It's no big mystery as to why Harris picked Wolz. He's a white, middle-aged man. He checks the boxes that her flavor of diversity doesn't. Shapiro is more talented, but that counts for nothing -- he would have placed a checkmark in a bad box (from her perspective).
In the skin-deep world of identity politics, that's all that matters.
Doesn't work so well with FEMA’s DEI Crippled Hurricane Helene Response though did it . I guess there still trying to figure out what color / race were the wiped out towns in NC were , and thus what kind of response they need to make base on DEI rules ?
I honestly can't believe Republicans still agree to debate with MSM personalities ... it's like every single chance they get - they expose how biased they are - and then the next batch of moderators say: Hold my beer. It's so pathetically obvious at this point. We've reached a time where it would just make more sense to have separate, partisan moderators handle the individual questions for their specific candidate and call it a day. This whole thing where the conservatives have to debate a candidate (and the refs) at the same time would be "the end of democracy" if it kept happening on the other side. What a pathetic lot......
But it's important for the American public to see. In a world where Google's AI responses to why should I vote for Trump vs why should I vote for Harris doesn't even get reported in MSM, this is the only forum for it. It took the debate to expose Biden's state for all to see; perhaps the American public will now understand what the media has pushed on them.
Problem is, if the general public doesn't understand how corrupt our state media is by now - I don't think they ever will. It's like "undecided" voters right now. Really, after 4 years of this ... you still don't know who you should vote for?!?!
Hate to say it, but sometimes I just don't trust the American public to "get it"....
I scan all media outlets regularly to try and understand both sides of issues and have been shocked at what doesn't get reported. I've come to the conclusion that most people get their news from 1 or 2 sources. This is how something as obvious as Biden's state was hidden until his debate.
I've had conversions with intelligent people who didn't realize there were IRS whistleblowers and never heard of Tony Bubolinski. You'd be surprised how uninformed the general public is and what a great disservice the MSM is doing to the country.
Tim Walz's "I'm a knucklehead at times" comment made me smile and actually like him as a person. A guy to have a beer with while watching a football game. However, I don't want a "Knucklehead" having access to the nuclear codes.
Except that people get confused over time, especially when things make such a big impact on you that they seem real to you even though you are watching them from afar.
I’m no fan of Walz, and thought he was Harris’ worst option, but I’ve seen this too many times in people.
This and cutting the mic off during critical point Vance was making after a false fact check on immigration . TFP comments were and have been vary lacking on how bad , how very bad, the moderators were , that is the most surprising !
I did not see this as as big a win for Vance. I noticed many missed opportunities by Vance to highlight Walz and Harris's actual record while not responding forcefully enough with details to the various attacks by Walz.
Walz has instituted plenty of uber-progressive policies in MN. Highlight these.
Abortion and Supreme Court decision. Why not explain the courts majority opinion. R v W was dubious due to no mention of abortion in Constitution. Privacy was implied based on right of pursuit of Liberty in 14th ammendment. Congress can fix this according to constituents desire for clarity. In the interim, rights not explicity described in Constitution are relegated to States until Congress does their job. Congress refuses to take hard positions or compromise to pass good laws that majority of Americans want for fear of opponents using the compromise against them. Easier to let Court do their dirty work.
Failed Immigration bill. Vance could have stated facts of what bill allows and what it doesn't do. It was a bad attempt that would solve nothing.
I agree. I thought Vance missed a huge opportunity when Waltz was criticizing the "abortion back to the states" Federalist position and then moments later was championing the MN abortion protections he signed into law. Vance could have had a memorable "so which is it it?" moment but whiffed on it.
Vance also missed an opportunity to point out Walz's extreme stance on gender treatment for minors. He made MN a refuge state for minors seeking drugs and surgery for "gender affirming care", which is really just child mutilation and abuse that has been outlawed in several European countries.
Vance point on abortion and Republicans was spot on . Many Republicans will criticize this but in the Republican party there is not enough talk about what abortion is , why it is , and how to prevent it . Laws will not stop it , but changing the social acceptance of or better the acknowledgment of the need for limited abortions will help in moving this argument forward for Republicans polices on making abortion something that is rare and just not needed for the future of the US. This will not be a light switch change it has to evolve and Republicans must be ready to lead this to evolve into something that will respect life as best as possible for our society today .
VP debates are always weird because they are not debating for themselves but as proxies for their bosses. Walz's best moments were when he was able to cite exceptional things about Minnesota and what he did, but not much about Kamala haha
Did anyone else wish the tickets were flipped, with these two on top instead of Trump and Harris? All of us watching last night were so pleased with the civil, adult debate that actually focused on policy instead of name-calling and idiotic nonsense and hyperbole. I'd even take a Vance/Walz ticket over Trump or Harris.
I was thinking the same thing. Each of them is a far better choice than their running mates!
It's not plausible to mistake being in Nebraska for being in Hong Kong during the Tiananmen Square uprising, any more than it's plausible to mistake not being in combat for being in combat. Excusing lying by saying one has "misspoken" or gotten caught up in the rhetoric is unacceptable in a teenager, let alone a political leader. Indeed, Walz also apparently "misspoke" in saying he has a child conceived by IVF -- which he is championing politically -- when in fact his daughter was conceived through artificial insemination, a much less invasive and controversial procedure. Perhaps he doesn't understand the difference, though -- given his intimate involvement in the process -- that strains credulity.
A politician who repeatedly becomes truth-challenged under pressure, and then -- upon being found out -- excuses the resulting lies as misspeaking or getting caught up in rhetoric is not suitable for vice president. Harris did herself no favors in choosing Walz as her running mate. Conversely, Vance is a powerful asset to Trump, whom he far excels in intelligence and oratory.
Did Walz actually say he learned a "lot about governance" from visiting communist China?
Curious that you saw Vance as the clear winner in the debate. Yes, he was far more comfortable and polished, yet mostly stuck to talking points instead of giving actual answers. You note Walz's worst moment as regarding the misstatement over a trip to China while missing Vance's worst moment of clumsily changing the subject when asked to acknowledge that Trump lost the last election. If you want to call Walz a liar, so be it, but why ignore the lie at the literal core of the Trump/Vance campaign? While you're assessing Walz, remember that Vance maintains he would not have certified the legal 2020 election. Should a declaration that he would not uphold the Constitution concern voters? I'd say yes.
Your point on upholding the Constitution is pretty weak considering how the Binden/Harris last 4 years shakes out , with them ignoring supreme court rulings and there constant suppression of free speech that they are all about . Did Trump ignore the Constitution during his 4 years ? Again and again Dems bring up he said with cherry picked sound bits and implying but when you taking the whole sound talk it is a fail . Really sick of even hearing about that BS that are just lies , and listening to MSM repeat these fact checked verified lies again and again . And yes Walz is a constant liar about many things like he didn't sign that abortion bill that has his signature on it, how could you lie about that , yes a true knuckle head he is , which isn't a lie .
Despite literal mountains of evidence to the contrary, Trump maintains to this day that the election was stolen. He makes everyone around him parrot that lie. He literally fomented a riot in an attempt to subvert the election and now claims he wants to pardon everyone involved. What's weak about the point that Vance, in signing on to that lie, chooses it over the Constitution?
Always back to the election was stolen , OH wait didn't 2 Dems that lost in the last 20 years also say this ? Funny how it's only Trump name that comes up to for this . Isn't this just politics ?
Just as the 2028 cycle Democrat primary began with Newsome and Whitmer desperately stepping out of the way of being obligated to run as a proxy incumbent for Joe Biden this was the beginning of the 2028 Republican cycle primary. Vance has his MAGA cachet well locked down, now he goes for the middle and buries the man who gave him this platform without ever saying a bad word about him.
It was not close. America saw a future President on the stage last night in J.D. Vance, like when Obama first spoke to the Democratic convention. It saw a winning brand of Republicanism. It also saw yet another bad decision by Kamala Harris, who makes few choices but seems to fail at all of them. There is so much antipathy for Trump that she may yet win, but last night a star was born.
"This is the point in the analysis where I am duty-bound to inform you that VP debates don’t matter very much. "
In normal times I would agree. But we do not live in normal times so I disagree 100%. The VPs in this election matter for two reasons: Age of one candidate and a complete lack of experience with the other. There is higher probability in this election one of these two men will end up becoming POTUS before the next election.
Random aside that doesn't really matter: those post debate "who won" snap polls are useless. Vance won (when the NYT is admitting the Republican won a debate, it was pretty lopsided) and I believe CNN's poll was like 42-41 Vance. Hardly the first time they've returned a result wildly at odds with what happened.
My guess would be debates tend to be watched by political obsessives (guilty), and NeverTrump Republicans are disproportionately political obsessives, and consequently they get wildly overrepresented as "Republicans" in those polls. But that's just a guess.
Either way, I enjoyed this debate, from both guys. Hopefully it becomes the norm again.
Wish there yet again there wasn't the one side fact checking and cutting the mic off during a pivotal moment during which one side brought out how immigration through an app works today . Yet just like the ABC debate just crap moderators . Yes Vance still prevails even through we had 3 against 1 again .
It's no big mystery as to why Harris picked Wolz. He's a white, middle-aged man. He checks the boxes that her flavor of diversity doesn't. Shapiro is more talented, but that counts for nothing -- he would have placed a checkmark in a bad box (from her perspective).
In the skin-deep world of identity politics, that's all that matters.
Doesn't work so well with FEMA’s DEI Crippled Hurricane Helene Response though did it . I guess there still trying to figure out what color / race were the wiped out towns in NC were , and thus what kind of response they need to make base on DEI rules ?
I honestly can't believe Republicans still agree to debate with MSM personalities ... it's like every single chance they get - they expose how biased they are - and then the next batch of moderators say: Hold my beer. It's so pathetically obvious at this point. We've reached a time where it would just make more sense to have separate, partisan moderators handle the individual questions for their specific candidate and call it a day. This whole thing where the conservatives have to debate a candidate (and the refs) at the same time would be "the end of democracy" if it kept happening on the other side. What a pathetic lot......
But it's important for the American public to see. In a world where Google's AI responses to why should I vote for Trump vs why should I vote for Harris doesn't even get reported in MSM, this is the only forum for it. It took the debate to expose Biden's state for all to see; perhaps the American public will now understand what the media has pushed on them.
Problem is, if the general public doesn't understand how corrupt our state media is by now - I don't think they ever will. It's like "undecided" voters right now. Really, after 4 years of this ... you still don't know who you should vote for?!?!
Hate to say it, but sometimes I just don't trust the American public to "get it"....
I scan all media outlets regularly to try and understand both sides of issues and have been shocked at what doesn't get reported. I've come to the conclusion that most people get their news from 1 or 2 sources. This is how something as obvious as Biden's state was hidden until his debate.
I've had conversions with intelligent people who didn't realize there were IRS whistleblowers and never heard of Tony Bubolinski. You'd be surprised how uninformed the general public is and what a great disservice the MSM is doing to the country.
Tim Walz's "I'm a knucklehead at times" comment made me smile and actually like him as a person. A guy to have a beer with while watching a football game. However, I don't want a "Knucklehead" having access to the nuclear codes.
How can that make anyone like him? He was dissembling, rather than admitting he flat-out lied. Like he has lied about so many things.
Except that people get confused over time, especially when things make such a big impact on you that they seem real to you even though you are watching them from afar.
I’m no fan of Walz, and thought he was Harris’ worst option, but I’ve seen this too many times in people.
How long are voters going to tolerate smug leftist moderators who make no attempt to conceal their contempt for the Republican on the stage?
And provide Democratic candidates with "suggestions" to use in their answers?
Yes, I also noticed many times when the moderators were "leading the witness"
This and cutting the mic off during critical point Vance was making after a false fact check on immigration . TFP comments were and have been vary lacking on how bad , how very bad, the moderators were , that is the most surprising !
I did not see this as as big a win for Vance. I noticed many missed opportunities by Vance to highlight Walz and Harris's actual record while not responding forcefully enough with details to the various attacks by Walz.
Walz has instituted plenty of uber-progressive policies in MN. Highlight these.
Abortion and Supreme Court decision. Why not explain the courts majority opinion. R v W was dubious due to no mention of abortion in Constitution. Privacy was implied based on right of pursuit of Liberty in 14th ammendment. Congress can fix this according to constituents desire for clarity. In the interim, rights not explicity described in Constitution are relegated to States until Congress does their job. Congress refuses to take hard positions or compromise to pass good laws that majority of Americans want for fear of opponents using the compromise against them. Easier to let Court do their dirty work.
Failed Immigration bill. Vance could have stated facts of what bill allows and what it doesn't do. It was a bad attempt that would solve nothing.
I really, really, **really**, wanted Vance to comment on what was wrong with that immigration bill. Otherwise, I thought he was just terrific.
I agree. I thought Vance missed a huge opportunity when Waltz was criticizing the "abortion back to the states" Federalist position and then moments later was championing the MN abortion protections he signed into law. Vance could have had a memorable "so which is it it?" moment but whiffed on it.
Vance also missed an opportunity to point out Walz's extreme stance on gender treatment for minors. He made MN a refuge state for minors seeking drugs and surgery for "gender affirming care", which is really just child mutilation and abuse that has been outlawed in several European countries.
Everyone in America (Dems and Repubs) woke up this morning thing they want JD Vance for President.