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One onders what would have happened if the ICC was around at the end of WWII. Would it have brought war crimes prosecutions against the Nazis AND the Allies? There were plenty of summary executions of SS and other Germand by Allied soldiers, particularly when they saw the concentration camps.

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You don't have to go that far. The US prevented any shipping from reaching Japan. It was the most successful submarine warfare campaign in history. Anybody talking about prosecuting "the Greatest Generation"? No! So we are faced with this ironic paradox: The US did use starvation against Japan, and was not and never will be, prosecuted, while Israel does not use starvation against Gaza and will be prosecuted. Welcome to the world of Orwell.

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I’m proud of Biden’s statement. I think it was very good.

Credit where credit is due.

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He was forced to do that as the USA also does not recognize the ICC. If the Biden maladministration does not push back on this, its tacit endorsement of an illegitimate organization.

The ICC is political like pretty much every UN institution.

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The pandering fool is playing both sides of the street, as he has always do e during his career.

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Yes, yes, he is awful. That statement was very good.

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Israel MUST win against all enemies. Israel is currently the only player in the game with the willingness to do what must be done. The United States has largely abandoned the field and if we re-elect Joe Scumbag in November then Israel will be alone.

Israel is currently like England was in 1940.

Stand fast, Israel. Stand fast...

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This is how the USA finally figures out we need to leave the UN. I'm still waiting for a presidential candidate to state that as a policy position. The ICC is not the UN, but they are closely aligned, and allowing these global groups to act as our world's monitors causes more harm than good.

International institutions have been a mixed bag, but are declining rapidly. There has been some good, but also, an enormous amount of bad.

They delegitimize themselves. its time for the US to realize many of these institutions are an albatross and to exit.

We can keep much of the good, limited as it is, and get rid of the albatross. The sooner the better.

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Back in the ‘80’s I reached that conclusion when I learned about the bias of UNICEF. It is the history of international organizations.

Really, our participation in these organizations is equivalent to dropping our pants and bending over a table to allow someone to whip us.

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I was governed by a sense of propriety.

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I can’t believe my innocent comment was removed, compared to some of the awful comments that get left up here.

Hope this isn’t the start of TFP turning into the MSM.

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I wonder if it was an actual person or AI? I did not see anything wrong with what you wrote.

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Yes

I see truly awful comments here, have muted a couple rabid commenters

But to have “it could have been worse” be my first “commented deleted” is disconcerting

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May 22·edited May 22

WHO’s response to Covid should have been enough to defund it completely, but here we are. I don’t think the US will ever pull out of these international organizations because, ultimately, we exert immense influence over them.

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I wonder about the extent of our influence. Yes, we may veto something in the Security Council, but it seems that when it comes to a vote of membership, we are terribly outnumbered.

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Certainly the UNRWA is a cancerous leach upon the Palestinian people. Classifying each and every new birth there (since 1949) as a refugee. Victimhood into perpetuity. No other people group in the world gets their own special UN victimhood agency but the Palestinians. Yes, the UN is a big fat bloated mess.

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Hamas is the problem. They are the terrorists who will use the civilians in Gaza as long as necessary to turn world opinion against Israel. Did anyone thinking otherwise bother to read their very clear statements post Oct.7? They spelled out their plans so clearly. They want Israel GONE. Then they want all the Jews gone. Should they (temporarily) succeed with those plans, who do you think they will come for next?? My guess is the entire Western culture known as we “white folks” who apparently have terrorized the world long enough—so long in fact, that SOME of us are ashamed of our whiteness and will pander to any person of color who claims oppression. God help us all.

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"Prosecuting war criminals" was one of the strategies discussed at the invitation-only "Global Conference Against Israel Apartheid" held in South Africa from May 10-12 to "break Zionist Israel," along with blocking shipping ports, encouraging more student protests, blocking Israel from cultural events, etc. Participants were from over 20 countries, including Hamas, Sinn Fein, and the National African Congress, and some of the sessions were secret, behind closed doors. Anyone who thinks there isn't an organized plot driving all of the anti-Israel nonsense is not paying attention.

https://droloman.substack.com/p/the-two-faces-of-aljezeera-news?r=1igjx9

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"Israel Is Not Equivalent to Hamas"

No, but Israel isn't beyond reproach either. All the whataboutism in the world aside, you can't carpet bomb civilians for months and refuse to permit aid to those civilians and not expect recourse. It's sad that so many otherwise intelligent people are so stuck in their ideological camp.

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Lance, while I appreciate your sense of empathy, you have fallen prey to the opinionated, ideological media. Israel made many attempts to get civilians to leave contested areas. It’s too bad Egypt prevented them from entering. Hamas also prevented it human shields from leaving.

It is documented that Israel allowed many shipments of food daily, enough for a per capita consumption of 3000 calories per day. Hamas sequestered the food.

Hamas has been thoroughly discredited for producing bogus civilian casualty numbers.

As for carpet bombing, that ended in Vietnam. Today’s bombs are ‘smart’ and guided directly toward specific targets. Biden is now withholding additional guided bombs as well as the intelligence of target locations, pushing Israel toward that unwanted effort.

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There's something seriously wrong with you. Why don't you want the war to end soon, with Hamas surrendering? That won't happen by being nice to them.

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"Carpet bomb" is a catchphrase used by college tiktok activists who can't name the river or the sea. Be better than that here, it's not the Washington Post.

Seven months of actual carpet bombing and there'd be a quarter million dead in Gaza. There's tons of drone footage, comms transcripts, and infantry GoPro vid showing RPG-toting terrorists running into civvie-occupied infrastructure for shelter followed by the IDF breaking off an assault, or calling off artillery and close air support. Do you really think Hamas would do the same?

Civvie to terrorist killed ratio in Gaza is 2-1, basically the lowest in the recorded history of warfare that takes place within any urban environment, much less in an area nearly as densely populated as Tokyo and where the "civilians" (a loose term applied to a fanatical horde whom the world saw gleefully spitting and throwing rocks at bloodied hostages) are deliberately used as human shields by the literal death cult they elected to lead them.

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""Carpet bomb" is a catchphrase used by college tiktok activists "

LOL - it's been A LOT of years since I've been in college. But thanks!

"Do you really think Hamas would do the same?"

Whataboutism: we're not talking about Hamas.

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I concisely point out why the term "carpet bomb" is intellectually, historically, and morally lazy. Your cherrypicked deflection is much of the the same, suited to twitter or Wapo users who engage on that level.

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May 21·edited May 21

Instead of engaging with the points raised, you literally respond by equating me to "college tiktok activists" while lumping me to the "river to the sea" folks ... engaged in the very same whataboutism that I literally noted in the original comment ... and you call ME "intellectually, historically, and morally lazy"?

LOL - Seems a bit of the pot calling the kettle black here.

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But that's how you entered this discussion. You're making an unfounded accusation and embellishing it with jargon you don't really seem to understand.

If you don't want to be lumped in with the Hamas Youth, maybe you should try not parroting the same propaganda.

I don't know what you expect Israel to do. Hamas Youth wants it to surrender, so they can murder the rest of the population. Hamas itself operates out of mosques and schools and shields its fighters with women and children. They're counting on ignorant antisemites around the world to protect them with those whataboutisms. It's working.

Want peace? We all do. All it will take is for Iran and its proxies to say "Israel has a right to exist." That's it. I know it would be a crushing disappointment to the UN and the Ivy League, but that's what this will take.

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how would you have defeated Nazi Germany?

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May 21·edited May 21

We're not talking about Nazi Germany. Nor are we talking about two (or more) countries going to war with one another.

In this case, we're talking about - effectively - a country going to war with a state in its own jurisdiction. It would be closer to the US bombing Oregon ... or Portland ... in the event that Antifa decided to get truly violent.

Granted, that's a bad comparison ... but the take home is that Israel's responsibilities for the civilian population of Gaza are far greater than when two independent nations go to war.

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Okay, how would you eliminate the Hamas organization with minimal or zero casualties to civilians in Gaza?

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I'll see your comparison and raise you. If Seattle elected Antifa as their government the way Gaza did with Hamas, they'd be traitors, renegades, and insurrectionists just like the Confederacy, and deservedly be treated as such. Gaza should thank their prophet they're facing the IDF instead of Sherman's March to the Sea.

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Finally, a serious answer!

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According to you, any terrorist group that uses human shields automatically wins. It is well known by all with eyes to see that Hamas deliberately built their infrastructure under heavily populated areas with folks like you in mind. So Israel is not allowed to defend itself by going after the terrorists who've promised to carry out more 10/7s?

If we'd followed your "ideological camp" in WW2, the Nazis would still rule western Europe. Japanese militarists would have their East Asian Co-Prosperity Sphere. If we'd followed you in the Civil War, blacks would still be enslaved in the Confederate States of America (the former southern U.S.). Your "ideological camp" is morally obtuse. That's what's sad.

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May 21·edited May 21

I'm not sure who you're talking to as I've said nothing of these things... Perhaps you're responding to someone else?

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Your obtuseness is apparently not limited to morals.

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May 21·edited May 21

LOL - if you have links to when I've said any of these things on ANY social media, please feel free to show me and I'll be happy to respond. As it stands, I have never said anything of the sort.

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They are the logical consequence of what you've said just above. If Israel can't destroy Hamas' tunnel infrastructure, then Hamas survives to conduct more 10/7s. Bombing in civilian areas is an unfortunate necessity, since that's where Hamas is located. Will civilians die? Well, that happens in war. You're trying to hold Israel to a standard that nobody else has ever met.

As far as blocking all aid, Israel has allowed in over half a million tons of aid since 10/7. So there you're just lying outright.

As far as going through your posts, don't flatter yourself. You're just a morally obtuse liar. Or more likely, a troll.

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All of the above.

A troll with no answers

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"you can't carpet bomb civilians for months and refuse to permit aid to those civilians and not expect recourse. It's sad that so many otherwise intelligent people are so stuck in their ideological camp."

Are you REALLY REALLY sure you want to go with that?

Because someone is going to ask you for sources about carpet bombing and permitting aid.

On the subject of aid, guess who get most of that aid? (Hint) Its the guys with the guns.

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May 21·edited May 21

"sources about carpet bombing and permitting aid."

I wasn't aware that these statements are controversial to anyone with two eyes and a brain. Refusal to accept these undeniable truths is right up there with Palestinian supporters who refuse to accept that Hamas slaughtered/raped civilians and took hostages.

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May 21·edited May 21

I often wonder about something. If Gaza has approximately 300 miles of tunnels, why doesn't Hamas let the innocent women and children hide down there and come out and fight the IDF man to man?

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They are The Shields. Hamas WANTS lots of civilian casualties. Understand there is very little difference between Hamas and Al-Qa‘ida. They both come from the same source. Hassan al-Banna founding The Muslim Brotherhood in 1928.

A Good source for Laypersons is Lawrence Wright's "The Looming Tower: Al-Qaeda and the Road to 9/11"

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Except Neither (Carpet Bombing or not allowing aid), is True.

I await sources that they are true.

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May 21·edited May 21

You do that. Those blind to their own side's atrocities always do.

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When someone makes a (controversial) statement like you did, I ask for sources. Why did you say The Israelis Carpet Bombing Gaza and not allowing aid in? Why did you say that, where did you get that? Reasonable questions. So far, No answer. Which leads me to think You don't have any ie making this up.

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Except there is nothing controversial about it. Even Israel says as much.

If you want to have a serious conversation, then please do so. But don't be disingenuous. Simply disregarding the facts on the ground because it doesn't fit your simple us-vs-them narrative isn't serious.

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Because Hamas is a terrorist organization. Nothing I said disproves that statement.

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This is very dangerous. So a man defending his country against tribal, genocidal enemy is a war criminal? But George W. Bush, who "shocked and awed" innocent people, that were in no way a threat to his people, is not? Give me a break. This is just more Jew hate. Jews cannot defend themselves, so the white supremacists are demanding.

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If the ICC wants to go to war with Israel, they should get the same treatment as all of Israel's other enemies. If I was Khan, I wouldn't go near a helicopter any time soon...

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May 21·edited May 21

Yet another organization taken over , why is this vestige of WWII trials still around ? Does it serve any purpose , it has no real teeth , and no power it is like a woke mob. lets compare it to NYC and the Trump trial, it's a real problem of the law being taken over by a mob ?

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The ICC is an irrelevant organization, and they just squandered any credibility they may have had by trying to indict Israeli leadership. They should rename themselves the International Clown Coalition. The ICC should be completely disregarded.

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I don't recall former President Obama getting any flak from the ICC after drone bombing all those weddings, funerals, women, children, etc., etc.,....

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And that proves what? Because honestly I think he should have been arrested and tried.

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This is all pretty insane. War is not a war crime. When you’re accusing both parties to a war of committing war crimes, what are you saying, exactly, about war? That it’s bad and people get hurt?

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There is a very good reason Sherman said "War is all hell".

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Sherman was sent with his army to cut off all supplies from the Mississippi and destroy all rail lines/ roads so that they would starve the people and the war . Lincoln had sent him on this himself and he was very successful in both areas . This is what war is , yes hell . All of this for the end of slavery but yet today it's not enough or too much ? We need to get our stories in line with something or some fact .

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I am very familiar with that March, having had ancestors from Civil War era Georgia. Growing up in GA in the mid-late sixties there was still animosity to Sherman. But as ugly as it was, he did what he needed to do. The South capitulated within a few months.

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Years ago I recall reading of a guy who in his Will was the stipulation his land could not be sold to anyone with Sherman first or last name.

Then there is "Hail Columbia! Happy Land! If we don't burn you I'll be damned!"

About Columbia SC. BTW They Did...well pretty much.

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But my point is both Sherman and Lincoln would be accused of war crimes in today's views no matter what the results or cause they were fighting for . This is a problem of the split we live in.

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May 22·edited May 22

No, Imdontmthink they would, not both of them. In my opinion the ICC only charged both sides here to appear balanced and avoid a charge of bias against Israel. You don’t see them charging Ukraine, do you? See my previous comment about the absurdity of charging both parties to a war with war crimes.

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Absolutely.

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Perhaps the actions of the ICC and Karim Khan reflect the early stage of the eventual circumstance that Michel Houellbecq envisioned in his novel "Submission": the future dominance of Islam in Europe achieved, not by the sword, but via simple demographic numeric superiority enabling political control. All the hand-wringing over the New Right, Brexit, etc. is really moot. Europe is destined to become an outpost of the Caliphate whose most effective weapon is the womb.

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founding

Well said, excellent recent essay by Ayaan Hirsi Ali that expands on migration, demographic trends, lawfare and social media

https://www.restorationbulletin.com/p/islamisms-four-swords

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"Secretary of State Antony Blinken was right when he called the equivalence of Israel with Hamas “shameful.”

I guess every three or four years he gets one thing right.

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May 21·edited May 21

"Khaaaaaaaaaaannnnn!!!!!" James. T. Kirk, Admiral.

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