I don’t believe I saw anything in this article about Trump wanting to shut down TikTok and the screaming that ensued. Now it’s probably too late. All the little numb nuts out there who can’t wait to share their latest tattoo or death defying act or whatever will be up in arms.
Meanwhile the Chinese use TikTok to advance knowledge and edu…
I don’t believe I saw anything in this article about Trump wanting to shut down TikTok and the screaming that ensued. Now it’s probably too late. All the little numb nuts out there who can’t wait to share their latest tattoo or death defying act or whatever will be up in arms.
Meanwhile the Chinese use TikTok to advance knowledge and education. We use TikTok to highlight decadence and stupidity.
It was mentioned not far from the end of the article: Trump wanted to either ban TikTok in the US or force it to sell its American operations to an American owner. TikTok sued the US government. The law's current notion of "national security" is too narrow and old-fashioned to cope with this.
The irony of condemning TikTok and China for undermining Western values is that at this blog one of the biggest sources of criticism has been the excesses of political correctness and the increasing prevalence of woke culture.
Around 2016 the term baizuo, which translates to "white left", started to gain currency in the Chinese blogosphere in response to the perceived trend in American politics towards increasing wokeness. In particular, Chinese commentary asserted that this was an overcorrection on the part of the American left in response to historical injustices that led to increasingly destructive public policy. The dismantling of the meritocracy and the increasing prevalence of affirmative action was especially concerning.
Belief in meritocracy is deeply entrenched in Chinese culture and is certainly part and parcel of the current political system in China. We might not agree with its inherently authoritarian nature but generally speaking CCP officials advance through increasing demonstrations of competency post Mao. There's no way that someone like Donald Trump would ever rise to the highest office in the CCP today. Chinese Americans have also been at the forefront of defending meritocracy in this country. They were at the vanguard of getting 3 San Francisco school board members recalled and the entrance exam reinstated at Lowell High School in recent months and were also the driving force behind the Students for Fair Admissions lawsuit against Harvard.
I find it ironic that there's so much anti-Chinese sentiment in the anti-woke parts of the blogosphere when the Chinese mindset is in fact deeply anti-woke. I wonder if America wouldn't actually be better off if various aspects of Chinese culture were more mainstream in this country.
All of this is of course orthogonal to the main issue of whether or not TikTok poses a serious national security threat to America. Personally I've seen little hard evidence of that.
Break down the weaving of the cultural fabric as well as introducing/encouraging intellectual and moral weakness in a culture is an INSIDIOUS and calculated threat. That is what happens millions of times a week on TT.
There is vastly more to Western values than meritocracy. That is, in fact, a relatively recent addition to the pantheon of Western civilization. And claiming that the CCP is a meritocratic organization is risibly false. Hu Jintao would certainly disagree. So would Ai Fen.
None of what you said has any bearing on whether a corporation which is essentially an arm of an adversarial nation should be trusted with detailed personal and behavioral data on more than half of America's citizens.
A failure to distinguish between a shared culture and citizenship allows one to blur the lines. One wonders how many Chinese in the US who are free to vote for their school system along with practice their free speech, religion, etc. would be "anti-Chinese" by your definition because they are suspicious of the CCP's motives. Many times immigrants from oppressive and authoritarian countries often feel like they are the true preservers of their religious and culture customs.
Everybody here is an Other. We are not homogeneous. It is what makes it so fabulous IMO. We are like young souls from long lines of old souls. Don't ever feel
bad about it but rathef wear your uniqueness/otherness proudly.
I agree with your comment to the extent US citizens have largely undermined our own values. But that does not mean China is welcome to facilitate more of it. I also agree that the stereotypical Chinese person has a very solid work ethic (we did too at one point the WASP ethic which created the society currently being looted and plundered) and belief in rising through merit. But there the comparison ends. US citizens, at least the ones of my ilk, abhor authoritarianism because no matter the excuse or rationale therefor it is always subject to abuse. Such as limited reproduction rights. Or capitalistic oligarchy. Or disappeared journalists , doctors, and other citizens. Things are bad here at the moment but not that bad. I do not expect you to grasp the differences between my culture and yours. Freedom has to be lived. It defies accurate description.
I’m an American so not sure if my culture and your culture are all that different. I grew up in Texas. I agree that Chinese cultural values certainly aren’t identical to American ones but rather than focusing on the differences I feel like we ignore in particular the highly relevant commonality between the Chinese mindset and the anti-woke ethos that seems to be part and parcel of the Common Sense community.
I’ve been accused of being deeply biased but it’s my assertion that Chinese Americans are at the vanguard of the anti-woke movement in this country particularly with respect to crime and meritocracy. Ironically if America ever pivots back to being sane again, Chinese influence will have certainly played a disproportionate role in that.
That was my point above. We agonize over supposedly malicious Chinese influence in our way of life, but I wonder how many people realize that Chinese influence might in fact be our very salvation. It's my belief that Chinese Americans are going to be at the vanguard of dismantling the woke regime that our ruling class seems to have become in thrall to. Students for Fair Admissions vs Harvard is a case in point.
Thanks for the clarification that you are Chinese-American. As such you were sharing your insight as to Chinese culture. As is your prerogative and I really do appreciate the insight. IMO there is much to admire about the country of China and her people. Now for the but. Your reply to my comment does not offer a rebuttal to my position though which in essence is that 5000 year old culture perhaps has conditioned people to accept authoritarianism. And what this author has described is simply the newest, most advanced form of conditioning. One that the government of China protects its people from. I take that as evidence of TikTok's nefariousness. And frankly the nefariousness of the Chinese government. For what it is worth I would object to, and do object to, any government having access to that kind of data. Part of the issue is the AI and algorithms that will undoubtedly arise from the data compilations. I find the notion that an entity will know the individual better than the individual knows him or herself chilling. Who gets to say? The individual or the algorithm? If the algorithm that is the end of free will. And free will has created everything of significance or beauty up to this point. Lastly moral relevance is good. It is the basis of genuine tolerance and diversity. But like "wokeism" screams and screams for diversity, inclusion, and equity it is very intolerant of those who do not toe the party line so too moral relevance can be taken so far as to see nothing wrong with authoritarianism. My morals preclude acceptance of authoritarianism.
Funny You should take that disposition. What we have in common with China is the Chinese mindset and the anti-Woke ethos?
I'm afraid You just can't see.
Your making two different arguments here. One is about China, which You've been defending throughout. And just NOW You bring up Chinese-Americans. You won't find many here who are gonna be against the end of Affirmative Action. That good enough for You?
But these are entirely two different peoples, the Chinese and the Chinese-Americans. Mebbe not with You, because of Your perspective. But with most people it is. And, in this country, it's sometimes hard to tell between those two, and the actual members of the CCP who are here to be educated or for *whatever* reason they're here for.
All I'm saying is that before condemning an entire country of 1.4 billion people belonging to a civilization spanning 5000 years or even just condemning an organization that's been around since 1921 and which roughly 90-100 million Chinese people belong to, we should at least take note of that fact that the CCP is probably in virtual agreement with most of the anti-woke talking points that all of here deeply believe in. Doesn't that count for something? Isn't that a meaningful point of commonality even if significant differences remain?
I guess I've never bought into this us versus them mentality, but maybe that's because I'm guilty of the sin of moral relativism.
I would like to know more about this organization that started in 1921 with 90 to 100 M Chinese people in it.
However...
In any two things, no matter how similar or how different, there's gonna be differences and samenesses. Right? That's a law of nature. At the same time, it depends to an extent on how fine-grained You're looking at things. Two members of a family can be an *awful* lot alike. But by the very law of uniqueness, the couldn't be more different in a number of Ways, right?
So, yeah. There are samenesses and differences between the CCP and us in these comments. I marvel at them, and hadn't thought or known about it much.
There are distinct problems with an us vs. them mentality. Largely because it can easily lead to hatred which, in actual FACT, does as much harm to the hater as it does to the hated. Believe it or not.
At the same time, it's not totally without merit in *all* cases. Some particulars here that influence my view. The CCP has put into their latest 5-year plan that they will *dominate* the areas of computer chips, AI and (i believe) quantum computers. First time as a line-item in the plan. IOW (In Other Words), they're gonna be the worlds #1 of the future. I think everybody knows these are gonna propel the future, so that's what they're saying.
I believe there's still a great deal of paternalism and Confucusism (spelling) in China. So they'll like be a live and let live kind-a autocrat. As long as people realize their place. They said that in a recent comment. "Countries have to know their place in things." So everything will be fine, as long as the U.S. goes along with that.
It's already happening. Guy makes a comment about Hong Kong, next thing You know China's taking the NBA junk off-a the shelves. They want the guy fired. They almost got their way. Guy grovels sufficiently to keep his job, is what happened.
This is not what we here in the U.S. would call a "benevolent dictator."
Other examples about where China gives every appearance of not having the best interests in mind for Americans, or America the country.
So that's why many people take an us vs. them attitude towards China. Or mebbe they don't know about the Confucusism in China, and it's based somewhat on racial animus. Can't say that *nobody* looks at it that unfortunate way.
Meaningful point of commonality? Between us here in these comments, yeah, it would be. But it's a far bridge from the U.S. to China, the way things are going. Like I've posted before, unless something drastic happens, China is probably gonna wage an economic war against the U.S. and 1.4 B people will determine the winner, right? And the CCP isn't gonna allow any kind-a revolution to upset those plans.
The question to be answered is what will they do with the #1 economy in the world. They've already answered. They'll withdraw their markets to countries than don't bow the knee to their satisfaction. That's what they've done, and it's worked. Why change that? I wish I could be hopeful in that regard, as that's my nature. But.. no.
Moral relativism a sin? For me personally, contrary to a lotta commenters, I never believed much in sin as it's normally thought of. I believe people commit sins whenever they do something or another that is less than "optimal." However "optimal" turns out to be. Thus, people sin every day, because they're human.
But, I hafta admit, I think moral relativism and wanting to do away with the us vs. them mentality at all costs tend to go together. That's just me.
TY for reply, M. Yan Shen. Got me to thinking. But I didn't sleep well last night, and I'm wasted. Mebbe more tomorrow. Mebbe not. ;-) Have a good rest-a-day.
Like I said elsewhere, You have a deeply held bias.
But like I also said elsewhere, there are things we could learn from the Chinese.
As far as meritocracies go, I'm surprised You interpreted Xi extension of a third term as in any way meritocratic. My understanding is that he consolidated his power on the Politburo (or whatever they call it). Consolidating power isn't based on meritocracy, but loyalty.
I don't think You'll get many complaints about Chinese attitudes towards meritocracy or anti-Wokeness in *these* comments. I'm afraid that doesn't necessarily make China a country that deserves Most Favorite Nation status, however.
If You'd care to offer some policies that the Chinese gubmint specifically does that promotes the best interests of the U.S., I'd like to "hear" all about them. I'm not saying there *aren't* any. Just that I don't know of them.
Is there any evidence that differences in the kinds of videos that go viral on TikTok vs Douyin are the result of malicious Chinese engineering as opposed to being a reflection of the inherent interests of the Chinese and American populations? In any case setting limits on the usage of Tiktok seems like a paternalistic and authoritarian move that most Americans would be against so I’m a little surprised that you’re citing that as a virtue of the Chinese version of the app.
You're right. As a Chinese American myself, raised by Chinese immigrants in America, I've seen this firsthand. East Asian Americans have more of a culture of educational success than mainstream American culture. I was studying while other kids were playing sports and going to parties. It's just different. I discuss on my own blog a lot about Asian academic achievement.
My understanding is that China restricts their children to 40 minutes a day. Is that correct? If so, they don't seem to have the same concern about American children. In fact, the exact opposite.
The Chinese and international apps are tailored to two different domestic markets. If American law required TikTok to limit usage for people in this country, I'm sure Bytedance would comply with local law.
But clearly that would be the sort of paternalistic move that would never gain political traction here, so I'm not sure why you're blaming that on the Chinese.
Hate to break it to you and other commenters here but I’m not a member of the CCP and don’t have any personal connection to Xi Jinping. I grew up in Texas. It’s also not clear that the CCP has intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the TikTok or Douyin algorithm.
What’s been frustrating is that much of the commentary in this thread has been moralized panic coupled with vague intimations of the supposed Chinese menace with minimal substantive support of most of the claims. Basically the argument just boils down to China authoritarian, China bad.
I'm not an expert on the Confucius Institutes but from what I've read they're mostly used for fairly banal purposes, such as hosting Chinese language classes and that sort of thing. There are of course instances of bad political actors using them to promote Chinese interests. Personally I'm okay with shutting them down if that's what we decide is best.
I don't think that's an accurate reflection of malign Chinese influence in academia though. Based on the sources I've read and cited, my impression is that the recently ended China Initiative was mostly an overreach that harassed academics of Chinese descent for administrative violations such as failing to disclose ties to China rather than rooting out actual espionage.
I dunno what You're talking about with this "Chinese Initiative." If Chinese-Americans were harassed, that would be bad.
The Confucius Institutes, OTOH, are not in any way, shape, or form involved in "banal purposes." That's why they were thrown out, in almost *all* the colleges/universities that had them. You recall?
Of COURSE, the CCP just started more of them up under a different name. Nothing nefarious going on there, right? /s
You might be interested in Josh Rogin's book Chaos Under Heaven. Bari interviewed Josh in 2021 and their conversation focused on the supposed threat that China posed to America and the American way of life.
Rogin mentions in the book visiting the Confucius Institute at his alma mater George Washington University and registering for a Chinese Language 101 class . He found that there was nothing nefarious going on there and it was basically just a group of people learning Chinese. Of course there were allegations of politically untoward conduct at Confucius Institutes on other campuses and the book mentions that the University of West Florida closed theirs.
Chaos Under Heaven also mentions that around 30 out of the over 100 Confucius Institutes on American campuses had been closed. That number might be higher now given that the book was published last year, but it doesn't sound like all or even most of them have been thrown out of American universities as you allege.
I dunno how many C.I. have been closed. My understanding is most-a them, on account-a the fact that DOD funds are being withheld from colleges that host them.
I think it's disingenuous to claim that these are anything other than arms of the CCP.
I'll add "Chaos Under Heaven" to list. TY for recommendation.
"A previous order under the Trump administration would have required ByteDance to sell TikTok to an American company or face a ban. TikTok sued the government, Trump left office, and the deal never went through."
However, that misstates what really happened. Your characterization is better. Biden team swept into office and decided ANYTHING that Trump did was evil and must be abandoned.
It’s always dangerous to underestimate the US. Not saying you’re wrong, but we like winning. China is not this all knowing power and US is hopelessly bad.
They prevented Trump from stopping TicTok as it is a tool for the CCP and those US politicians in power who are compromised by the CCP. Maria Bartiromo opened my eyes to this years ago (before Covid) and it's just accelerated. Are we already at war but not awake to it because of the censorship of the CCP and the unwillingness of the US to find and punish those responsible for the Covid lab leak?
“A previous order under the Trump administration would have required ByteDance to sell TikTok to an American company or face a ban”
“The Biden administration is negotiating a deal with TikTok that would potentially require it to change its data and governance practices, but wouldn’t require ByteDance to sell TikTok to an American firm”
In some part of China they put the rat IN the taco. I suspect that's the case here. And if old Joe doesn't dance for TikTok, they're gonna have him for lunch.
The game is over, and America lost. Biden and his admin are crashing America. Both the woke and the Chinese ministries of propaganda have convinced enough Americans that all we need to do is murder Trump and all will be well. Those of us who see thru this will never have our votes counted again. The ministries of propaganda have also convinced even Bari Weiss that US elections are free and fair. Stay safe and watch Jordan Peterson videos.
It mentions "the Trump administration" but deliberately avoids giving Trump himself credit for being years out ahead on this issue, or pointing out the judge that blocked Trump's order on dubious legal grounds.
I don’t believe I saw anything in this article about Trump wanting to shut down TikTok and the screaming that ensued. Now it’s probably too late. All the little numb nuts out there who can’t wait to share their latest tattoo or death defying act or whatever will be up in arms.
Meanwhile the Chinese use TikTok to advance knowledge and education. We use TikTok to highlight decadence and stupidity.
Okay.
Unsubscribe to TicToc
What I tell anyone who asks me.
It was mentioned not far from the end of the article: Trump wanted to either ban TikTok in the US or force it to sell its American operations to an American owner. TikTok sued the US government. The law's current notion of "national security" is too narrow and old-fashioned to cope with this.
The irony of condemning TikTok and China for undermining Western values is that at this blog one of the biggest sources of criticism has been the excesses of political correctness and the increasing prevalence of woke culture.
Around 2016 the term baizuo, which translates to "white left", started to gain currency in the Chinese blogosphere in response to the perceived trend in American politics towards increasing wokeness. In particular, Chinese commentary asserted that this was an overcorrection on the part of the American left in response to historical injustices that led to increasingly destructive public policy. The dismantling of the meritocracy and the increasing prevalence of affirmative action was especially concerning.
Belief in meritocracy is deeply entrenched in Chinese culture and is certainly part and parcel of the current political system in China. We might not agree with its inherently authoritarian nature but generally speaking CCP officials advance through increasing demonstrations of competency post Mao. There's no way that someone like Donald Trump would ever rise to the highest office in the CCP today. Chinese Americans have also been at the forefront of defending meritocracy in this country. They were at the vanguard of getting 3 San Francisco school board members recalled and the entrance exam reinstated at Lowell High School in recent months and were also the driving force behind the Students for Fair Admissions lawsuit against Harvard.
I find it ironic that there's so much anti-Chinese sentiment in the anti-woke parts of the blogosphere when the Chinese mindset is in fact deeply anti-woke. I wonder if America wouldn't actually be better off if various aspects of Chinese culture were more mainstream in this country.
All of this is of course orthogonal to the main issue of whether or not TikTok poses a serious national security threat to America. Personally I've seen little hard evidence of that.
Break down the weaving of the cultural fabric as well as introducing/encouraging intellectual and moral weakness in a culture is an INSIDIOUS and calculated threat. That is what happens millions of times a week on TT.
There is vastly more to Western values than meritocracy. That is, in fact, a relatively recent addition to the pantheon of Western civilization. And claiming that the CCP is a meritocratic organization is risibly false. Hu Jintao would certainly disagree. So would Ai Fen.
None of what you said has any bearing on whether a corporation which is essentially an arm of an adversarial nation should be trusted with detailed personal and behavioral data on more than half of America's citizens.
A failure to distinguish between a shared culture and citizenship allows one to blur the lines. One wonders how many Chinese in the US who are free to vote for their school system along with practice their free speech, religion, etc. would be "anti-Chinese" by your definition because they are suspicious of the CCP's motives. Many times immigrants from oppressive and authoritarian countries often feel like they are the true preservers of their religious and culture customs.
Good point.
You are an excellent wolf warrior! When the westerners are crushed beneath your heels you will surely be rewarded!
I'm actually an American and a human being just like you, despite various commenters attempting to portray me as an Other.
Everybody here is an Other. We are not homogeneous. It is what makes it so fabulous IMO. We are like young souls from long lines of old souls. Don't ever feel
bad about it but rathef wear your uniqueness/otherness proudly.
Antiauthoritarian > antiwoke.
I agree with your comment to the extent US citizens have largely undermined our own values. But that does not mean China is welcome to facilitate more of it. I also agree that the stereotypical Chinese person has a very solid work ethic (we did too at one point the WASP ethic which created the society currently being looted and plundered) and belief in rising through merit. But there the comparison ends. US citizens, at least the ones of my ilk, abhor authoritarianism because no matter the excuse or rationale therefor it is always subject to abuse. Such as limited reproduction rights. Or capitalistic oligarchy. Or disappeared journalists , doctors, and other citizens. Things are bad here at the moment but not that bad. I do not expect you to grasp the differences between my culture and yours. Freedom has to be lived. It defies accurate description.
I’m an American so not sure if my culture and your culture are all that different. I grew up in Texas. I agree that Chinese cultural values certainly aren’t identical to American ones but rather than focusing on the differences I feel like we ignore in particular the highly relevant commonality between the Chinese mindset and the anti-woke ethos that seems to be part and parcel of the Common Sense community.
I’ve been accused of being deeply biased but it’s my assertion that Chinese Americans are at the vanguard of the anti-woke movement in this country particularly with respect to crime and meritocracy. Ironically if America ever pivots back to being sane again, Chinese influence will have certainly played a disproportionate role in that.
That was my point above. We agonize over supposedly malicious Chinese influence in our way of life, but I wonder how many people realize that Chinese influence might in fact be our very salvation. It's my belief that Chinese Americans are going to be at the vanguard of dismantling the woke regime that our ruling class seems to have become in thrall to. Students for Fair Admissions vs Harvard is a case in point.
Thanks for the clarification that you are Chinese-American. As such you were sharing your insight as to Chinese culture. As is your prerogative and I really do appreciate the insight. IMO there is much to admire about the country of China and her people. Now for the but. Your reply to my comment does not offer a rebuttal to my position though which in essence is that 5000 year old culture perhaps has conditioned people to accept authoritarianism. And what this author has described is simply the newest, most advanced form of conditioning. One that the government of China protects its people from. I take that as evidence of TikTok's nefariousness. And frankly the nefariousness of the Chinese government. For what it is worth I would object to, and do object to, any government having access to that kind of data. Part of the issue is the AI and algorithms that will undoubtedly arise from the data compilations. I find the notion that an entity will know the individual better than the individual knows him or herself chilling. Who gets to say? The individual or the algorithm? If the algorithm that is the end of free will. And free will has created everything of significance or beauty up to this point. Lastly moral relevance is good. It is the basis of genuine tolerance and diversity. But like "wokeism" screams and screams for diversity, inclusion, and equity it is very intolerant of those who do not toe the party line so too moral relevance can be taken so far as to see nothing wrong with authoritarianism. My morals preclude acceptance of authoritarianism.
Good points, *all.*
Funny You should take that disposition. What we have in common with China is the Chinese mindset and the anti-Woke ethos?
I'm afraid You just can't see.
Your making two different arguments here. One is about China, which You've been defending throughout. And just NOW You bring up Chinese-Americans. You won't find many here who are gonna be against the end of Affirmative Action. That good enough for You?
But these are entirely two different peoples, the Chinese and the Chinese-Americans. Mebbe not with You, because of Your perspective. But with most people it is. And, in this country, it's sometimes hard to tell between those two, and the actual members of the CCP who are here to be educated or for *whatever* reason they're here for.
All I'm saying is that before condemning an entire country of 1.4 billion people belonging to a civilization spanning 5000 years or even just condemning an organization that's been around since 1921 and which roughly 90-100 million Chinese people belong to, we should at least take note of that fact that the CCP is probably in virtual agreement with most of the anti-woke talking points that all of here deeply believe in. Doesn't that count for something? Isn't that a meaningful point of commonality even if significant differences remain?
I guess I've never bought into this us versus them mentality, but maybe that's because I'm guilty of the sin of moral relativism.
I would like to know more about this organization that started in 1921 with 90 to 100 M Chinese people in it.
However...
In any two things, no matter how similar or how different, there's gonna be differences and samenesses. Right? That's a law of nature. At the same time, it depends to an extent on how fine-grained You're looking at things. Two members of a family can be an *awful* lot alike. But by the very law of uniqueness, the couldn't be more different in a number of Ways, right?
So, yeah. There are samenesses and differences between the CCP and us in these comments. I marvel at them, and hadn't thought or known about it much.
There are distinct problems with an us vs. them mentality. Largely because it can easily lead to hatred which, in actual FACT, does as much harm to the hater as it does to the hated. Believe it or not.
At the same time, it's not totally without merit in *all* cases. Some particulars here that influence my view. The CCP has put into their latest 5-year plan that they will *dominate* the areas of computer chips, AI and (i believe) quantum computers. First time as a line-item in the plan. IOW (In Other Words), they're gonna be the worlds #1 of the future. I think everybody knows these are gonna propel the future, so that's what they're saying.
I believe there's still a great deal of paternalism and Confucusism (spelling) in China. So they'll like be a live and let live kind-a autocrat. As long as people realize their place. They said that in a recent comment. "Countries have to know their place in things." So everything will be fine, as long as the U.S. goes along with that.
It's already happening. Guy makes a comment about Hong Kong, next thing You know China's taking the NBA junk off-a the shelves. They want the guy fired. They almost got their way. Guy grovels sufficiently to keep his job, is what happened.
This is not what we here in the U.S. would call a "benevolent dictator."
Other examples about where China gives every appearance of not having the best interests in mind for Americans, or America the country.
So that's why many people take an us vs. them attitude towards China. Or mebbe they don't know about the Confucusism in China, and it's based somewhat on racial animus. Can't say that *nobody* looks at it that unfortunate way.
Meaningful point of commonality? Between us here in these comments, yeah, it would be. But it's a far bridge from the U.S. to China, the way things are going. Like I've posted before, unless something drastic happens, China is probably gonna wage an economic war against the U.S. and 1.4 B people will determine the winner, right? And the CCP isn't gonna allow any kind-a revolution to upset those plans.
The question to be answered is what will they do with the #1 economy in the world. They've already answered. They'll withdraw their markets to countries than don't bow the knee to their satisfaction. That's what they've done, and it's worked. Why change that? I wish I could be hopeful in that regard, as that's my nature. But.. no.
Moral relativism a sin? For me personally, contrary to a lotta commenters, I never believed much in sin as it's normally thought of. I believe people commit sins whenever they do something or another that is less than "optimal." However "optimal" turns out to be. Thus, people sin every day, because they're human.
But, I hafta admit, I think moral relativism and wanting to do away with the us vs. them mentality at all costs tend to go together. That's just me.
TY for reply, M. Yan Shen. Got me to thinking. But I didn't sleep well last night, and I'm wasted. Mebbe more tomorrow. Mebbe not. ;-) Have a good rest-a-day.
Like I said elsewhere, You have a deeply held bias.
But like I also said elsewhere, there are things we could learn from the Chinese.
As far as meritocracies go, I'm surprised You interpreted Xi extension of a third term as in any way meritocratic. My understanding is that he consolidated his power on the Politburo (or whatever they call it). Consolidating power isn't based on meritocracy, but loyalty.
I don't think You'll get many complaints about Chinese attitudes towards meritocracy or anti-Wokeness in *these* comments. I'm afraid that doesn't necessarily make China a country that deserves Most Favorite Nation status, however.
If You'd care to offer some policies that the Chinese gubmint specifically does that promotes the best interests of the U.S., I'd like to "hear" all about them. I'm not saying there *aren't* any. Just that I don't know of them.
No doubt Xi approved commentary.
However, the proof is how China allows their children to use TikTok v how they want Americans to use it. Betterment v degradation.
Is there any evidence that differences in the kinds of videos that go viral on TikTok vs Douyin are the result of malicious Chinese engineering as opposed to being a reflection of the inherent interests of the Chinese and American populations? In any case setting limits on the usage of Tiktok seems like a paternalistic and authoritarian move that most Americans would be against so I’m a little surprised that you’re citing that as a virtue of the Chinese version of the app.
You're right. As a Chinese American myself, raised by Chinese immigrants in America, I've seen this firsthand. East Asian Americans have more of a culture of educational success than mainstream American culture. I was studying while other kids were playing sports and going to parties. It's just different. I discuss on my own blog a lot about Asian academic achievement.
My understanding is that China restricts their children to 40 minutes a day. Is that correct? If so, they don't seem to have the same concern about American children. In fact, the exact opposite.
You think that's coincidence?
The Chinese and international apps are tailored to two different domestic markets. If American law required TikTok to limit usage for people in this country, I'm sure Bytedance would comply with local law.
But clearly that would be the sort of paternalistic move that would never gain political traction here, so I'm not sure why you're blaming that on the Chinese.
Just pointing out that what's good for the goose is NOT good for the gander.
I’m Sure you can ask Xi that.
Hate to break it to you and other commenters here but I’m not a member of the CCP and don’t have any personal connection to Xi Jinping. I grew up in Texas. It’s also not clear that the CCP has intimate knowledge of the inner workings of the TikTok or Douyin algorithm.
What’s been frustrating is that much of the commentary in this thread has been moralized panic coupled with vague intimations of the supposed Chinese menace with minimal substantive support of most of the claims. Basically the argument just boils down to China authoritarian, China bad.
You ignored my mention of Confucius Institutes. Why was that?
I'm not an expert on the Confucius Institutes but from what I've read they're mostly used for fairly banal purposes, such as hosting Chinese language classes and that sort of thing. There are of course instances of bad political actors using them to promote Chinese interests. Personally I'm okay with shutting them down if that's what we decide is best.
I don't think that's an accurate reflection of malign Chinese influence in academia though. Based on the sources I've read and cited, my impression is that the recently ended China Initiative was mostly an overreach that harassed academics of Chinese descent for administrative violations such as failing to disclose ties to China rather than rooting out actual espionage.
I dunno what You're talking about with this "Chinese Initiative." If Chinese-Americans were harassed, that would be bad.
The Confucius Institutes, OTOH, are not in any way, shape, or form involved in "banal purposes." That's why they were thrown out, in almost *all* the colleges/universities that had them. You recall?
Of COURSE, the CCP just started more of them up under a different name. Nothing nefarious going on there, right? /s
You might be interested in Josh Rogin's book Chaos Under Heaven. Bari interviewed Josh in 2021 and their conversation focused on the supposed threat that China posed to America and the American way of life.
Rogin mentions in the book visiting the Confucius Institute at his alma mater George Washington University and registering for a Chinese Language 101 class . He found that there was nothing nefarious going on there and it was basically just a group of people learning Chinese. Of course there were allegations of politically untoward conduct at Confucius Institutes on other campuses and the book mentions that the University of West Florida closed theirs.
Chaos Under Heaven also mentions that around 30 out of the over 100 Confucius Institutes on American campuses had been closed. That number might be higher now given that the book was published last year, but it doesn't sound like all or even most of them have been thrown out of American universities as you allege.
Cancel that last comment about adding book to list.
I *already* bought it. Sheesh on me!
I dunno how many C.I. have been closed. My understanding is most-a them, on account-a the fact that DOD funds are being withheld from colleges that host them.
I think it's disingenuous to claim that these are anything other than arms of the CCP.
I'll add "Chaos Under Heaven" to list. TY for recommendation.
Here’s one for you.
The US Navy prohibits sailors from using Bluetooth during underways and deployments because of the risk of foreign surveillance.
The US Navy has no problem with those same sailors using TikTok.
Either extreme ignorance or inexcusable laxity.
Democrats now recognize TikTok as a powerful force in their election campaigns. That's a huge incentive for them to keep it.
I imagine TT would be a powerful election tool for both parties, yes?
CCP vastly prefers the DNC, they've paid for the upper echelons of the DNC for years. Why would TikTok be helpful to the GOP?
I think the point of the article is it is not good for anyone.
True.
"A previous order under the Trump administration would have required ByteDance to sell TikTok to an American company or face a ban. TikTok sued the government, Trump left office, and the deal never went through."
However, that misstates what really happened. Your characterization is better. Biden team swept into office and decided ANYTHING that Trump did was evil and must be abandoned.
China is playing chess, the US is playing checkers.
And nodding off during the game
I think Newt mentioned, they play the game “Go”
And the US is missing a few chips.
I saw what you did there. Well played!
It’s always dangerous to underestimate the US. Not saying you’re wrong, but we like winning. China is not this all knowing power and US is hopelessly bad.
That’s naive thinking imo.
Which administration are we talking about here, winning in the last two years has clearly not been about Americans in my honest opinion
Skinny,
I’m Not talking about a single administration.
US is a complex, powerful entity.
I’m not saying I agree or disagree, but the fact is the USA is far more than a few politicians. Power can’t be underestimated imo.
Naive thinking is indeed the problem. IMO.
I agree but we have a President with diminished capacity and his family with diminished patriotism.
His party with diminished patriotism.
Not just one.
John Fetterman is proof of that
They prevented Trump from stopping TicTok as it is a tool for the CCP and those US politicians in power who are compromised by the CCP. Maria Bartiromo opened my eyes to this years ago (before Covid) and it's just accelerated. Are we already at war but not awake to it because of the censorship of the CCP and the unwillingness of the US to find and punish those responsible for the Covid lab leak?
It certainly is a threat.
“A previous order under the Trump administration would have required ByteDance to sell TikTok to an American company or face a ban”
“The Biden administration is negotiating a deal with TikTok that would potentially require it to change its data and governance practices, but wouldn’t require ByteDance to sell TikTok to an American firm”
Is old Joe just stupid or in the tank? or both?
The left screeches at the name Trump.
Smart money says 'The Big Guy' is on the TikTok gravy train like a rat on a taco.
In some part of China they put the rat IN the taco. I suspect that's the case here. And if old Joe doesn't dance for TikTok, they're gonna have him for lunch.
Biden is the Big Guy. He took ChiCom cash.
The game is over, and America lost. Biden and his admin are crashing America. Both the woke and the Chinese ministries of propaganda have convinced enough Americans that all we need to do is murder Trump and all will be well. Those of us who see thru this will never have our votes counted again. The ministries of propaganda have also convinced even Bari Weiss that US elections are free and fair. Stay safe and watch Jordan Peterson videos.
Back in the 90s, MTV videoed guys doing stunts that mostly had to do with endangering their private parts. The show was called, "Jackass."
The article does mention Trump in the last paragraphs.
LAST paragraph LOL
It mentions "the Trump administration" but deliberately avoids giving Trump himself credit for being years out ahead on this issue, or pointing out the judge that blocked Trump's order on dubious legal grounds.
I stand corrected. But by then I lost interest. And it appeared very offhand.
LAST paragraph lol