Absolutely brilliant move by Mossad. Bravo! But Eli cannot bring himself to talk about the elephant in the room: WHY does Israel’s strategic situation never seem to improve despite its tactical successes? It’s because Israelis and the Jewish diaspora cannot bring themselves to address the real problem, that the ultra orthodox (especially…
Absolutely brilliant move by Mossad. Bravo! But Eli cannot bring himself to talk about the elephant in the room: WHY does Israel’s strategic situation never seem to improve despite its tactical successes? It’s because Israelis and the Jewish diaspora cannot bring themselves to address the real problem, that the ultra orthodox (especially the messianic version on the West Bank) are a fatal impediment to peace and progress. They will resist, probably violently, any attempts to set up a state of Palestine or to remove their illegal settlements. And until the Palestinians have a state of their own, they can have no hope, and have no incentive to turn away from Hamas and the other extremists. But no one wants to talk about this; it’s all too hard.
Hezbollah is a Shi'ite organization funded, trained, and armed by Iran, a Shi'ite theocracy a thousand miles away. Israel has no territorial designs on Lebanon and had long ago withdrawn from the security buffer region, much to their regret and which obviously they will be reoccupying soon. Hezbollah's attacks on Israel are pure aggression.
As for the "ultra-Orthodox", they are completely pacifist, refusing to join the army, and many of them don't even recognize Israel as a legitimate Jewish country, believing that God will send the Messiah to reestablish the kingdom of David.
Clearly you know very little about Israel, but don't worry; almost no one else in the West knows anything either, despite holding very strident beliefs.
There is no evidence that Hamas is interested in a two state solution -- their charter explicitly states that the seek the elimination of the state of Israel and the removal of all Jews from Palestine. Their slogan is "From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be Arab" when they chant that in arabic; in English, it gets changed to "sea" -- but the thought is the same. And, by all appearances, the Palestinian population in Gaza and the West Bank agree with this absolutist position.
While the ultra-orthodox might be an obstacle some day to a peace deal, so far they haven't been. Instead, it has been the Palestinians who have on multiple occasions rejected peace proposals.
These are all facts that advocates of a two state solution just ignore.
Palestinians had plenty of opportunity to show what an independent Palestine would look like when Israel unilaterally withdrew from 100% of the Gaza Strip in 2005. They did.
Okay, I know that's what the world constantly says. But ask them to quote the relevant LAW, and they do a bait-and-switch about "consensus". So let's do LAW right now.
The Oslo Accords expressly protected the settlements that were in place by the 1990s... and even legitimized Israel's military presence in the territories. Surprised? Skeptical? Read on...
-----------
Oslo Accords, 1993 [emphasis added]:
"It is understood that, subsequent to the Israeli withdrawal [from Gaza and Jericho], Israel will continue to be responsible for external security, and for internal security and public order of SETTLEMENTS AND ISRAELIS. ISRAELI MILITARY FORCES AND CIVILIANS MAY CONTINUE to use roads freely within the Gaza Strip and the Jericho area." (Annex II)
"The Palestinian side shall ensure that [in the West Bank and Gaza Strip] NO CONSTRUCTION CLOSE TO THE SETTLEMENTS and MILITARY LOCATIONS will harm, damage or adversely affect them or the infrastructure serving them." (Article 27-3a)
"Israeli public transportation routes FROM ISRAEL TO AND BETWEEN SETTLEMENTS and
MILITARY LOCATIONS, and/or to other places in Israel, shall be determined by Israel.
Bus stops at the main junctions LEADING TO SETTLEMENTS and MILITARY LOCATIONS or
Palestinian villages in the West Bank will be determined in cooperation between
Israeli and Palestinian traffic controllers.
EXISTING BUS STOPS WILL BE KEPT AT JEWISH HOLY SITES [in PA-controlled areas]." (Article 38-10b-c)
Needless to say, that last one is just a bad joke.
-----------
Oslo II, 1995 [emphasis added]:
"Israel shall continue to carry the responsibility for defense against external threats, including the responsibility for protecting the Egyptian and Jordanian borders, and for defense against external threats from the sea and from the air, as well as the responsibility FOR OVERALL SECURITY OF ISRAELIS AND SETTLEMENTS, for the purpose of safeguarding their internal security and public order, and WILL HAVE ALL THE POWERS to take the steps necessary to meet this responsibility."
"For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank THE SETTLEMENTS IN AREA C; and in the Gaza Strip - the Gush Katif and Erez SETTLEMENT AREAS, as well as THE OTHER SETTLEMENTS IN THE GAZA STRIP, as shown on attached map." (Article 12)
"For the purposes of this Annex, "Territory" means West Bank territory except for Area
C which, EXCEPT FOR THE SETTLEMENTS and the MILITARY LOCATIONS, will be gradually
transferred to the Palestinian side in accordance with this Agreement, and Gaza Strip
territory EXCEPT FOR THE SETTLEMENTS and the MILITARY INSTALLATION Area." (Annex IV)
----------
Takeaway: What the Palestinians couldn't get legally, they got through brute extortion of Israel and bullying of the West -- by demanding settlement "freezes" in return for stopping illegal terror attacks (killing both Israelis and foreigners).
That's when the global community started fabricating the 'illegality' of settlements, and even redefining "settlement expansion" as building a new flat or a school inside their existing borders.
That's when Israel tried to buy international legitimacy by voluntarily pulling all settlements out of Gaza. It didn't bring legitimacy to Israel, but at least it showed the world EXACTLY how "a state of Palestine" will function.
So maybe you didn't know about this before, Will. But you do now.
The Palestinians have never been willing to recognize Jewish sovereignty over any part of the land. They’ve turned down a 2-state solution several times. That’s the crux of the problem, not the settlements. Without that, why should Israel agree to a Palestinian state? It would only be used for more attacks on Israel.
I actually very much appreciate the "Palestinians" (a fake people) for turning down all the 2 state deals. Now the idiots who thought it was a good idea have had a chance to take a second look. It never was, but October 7th seals that coffin shut permanently.
Correction: The Elephant in the Room is the sabotage of the Western powers, who consistently refuse to let Israel follow up on those strategic moves with tactical successes.
The UN and the US have a habit of handwringing over the "risk of escalation of tensions" -- but only after Israeli's enemies strike, giving Israel the right to strike back proportionately.
It happened every time the Oslo Accords were violated by terror attacks in Israel's coastal cities (NOT SETTLEMENTS), every time Hamas fired missiles into southern Israeli towns (NOT SETTLEMENTS), every time Hezbollah fired missiles into Israel's northern hills (NOT SETTLEMENTS).
You are absolutely 100% WRONG. I'm not sure you know much about this conflict at all. It has NOTHING to do with land (duh). This is a religious war that Islam is waging on the Jews. Why do westerners not understand that?!
You obviously don't know about the history or the geography of the place either. Judea and Samaria (which you mistakenly refer to as the West Bank) has ALWAYS been Jewish land. Please inform yourself instead of listening to talking heads who are similarly ignorant of the facts.
There’s actually plenty of people who talk about this very thing. There’s people who have very, very specific plans regarding the settlements (including but not all all limited to the Trump admin), and plenty of people who are against them all together. However, even if Israel uprooted every settlement, like they did in Gaza - even dug up the dead - no Palestinian governing body (PA, any other leader, or their 50+ terrorist organizations) what a state. They want to destroy Israel more than they want a state. They won’t even except a state handed to them under any terms of except “from the water to the water Palestine is Arab.”
TLDR: settlers, however bad, are not the route of the problem. Islamism stops at nothing.
Absolutely brilliant move by Mossad. Bravo! But Eli cannot bring himself to talk about the elephant in the room: WHY does Israel’s strategic situation never seem to improve despite its tactical successes? It’s because Israelis and the Jewish diaspora cannot bring themselves to address the real problem, that the ultra orthodox (especially the messianic version on the West Bank) are a fatal impediment to peace and progress. They will resist, probably violently, any attempts to set up a state of Palestine or to remove their illegal settlements. And until the Palestinians have a state of their own, they can have no hope, and have no incentive to turn away from Hamas and the other extremists. But no one wants to talk about this; it’s all too hard.
Hezbollah is a Shi'ite organization funded, trained, and armed by Iran, a Shi'ite theocracy a thousand miles away. Israel has no territorial designs on Lebanon and had long ago withdrawn from the security buffer region, much to their regret and which obviously they will be reoccupying soon. Hezbollah's attacks on Israel are pure aggression.
As for the "ultra-Orthodox", they are completely pacifist, refusing to join the army, and many of them don't even recognize Israel as a legitimate Jewish country, believing that God will send the Messiah to reestablish the kingdom of David.
Clearly you know very little about Israel, but don't worry; almost no one else in the West knows anything either, despite holding very strident beliefs.
There is no evidence that Hamas is interested in a two state solution -- their charter explicitly states that the seek the elimination of the state of Israel and the removal of all Jews from Palestine. Their slogan is "From the River to the Sea, Palestine will be Arab" when they chant that in arabic; in English, it gets changed to "sea" -- but the thought is the same. And, by all appearances, the Palestinian population in Gaza and the West Bank agree with this absolutist position.
While the ultra-orthodox might be an obstacle some day to a peace deal, so far they haven't been. Instead, it has been the Palestinians who have on multiple occasions rejected peace proposals.
These are all facts that advocates of a two state solution just ignore.
There will be no 2 state solution as long as I draw breath. I am "ride or die" on this issue.
Palestinians had plenty of opportunity to show what an independent Palestine would look like when Israel unilaterally withdrew from 100% of the Gaza Strip in 2005. They did.
Bye, bye "Palestine", you won't be missed.
What "illegal settlements", dude??
Okay, I know that's what the world constantly says. But ask them to quote the relevant LAW, and they do a bait-and-switch about "consensus". So let's do LAW right now.
The Oslo Accords expressly protected the settlements that were in place by the 1990s... and even legitimized Israel's military presence in the territories. Surprised? Skeptical? Read on...
-----------
Oslo Accords, 1993 [emphasis added]:
"It is understood that, subsequent to the Israeli withdrawal [from Gaza and Jericho], Israel will continue to be responsible for external security, and for internal security and public order of SETTLEMENTS AND ISRAELIS. ISRAELI MILITARY FORCES AND CIVILIANS MAY CONTINUE to use roads freely within the Gaza Strip and the Jericho area." (Annex II)
"The Palestinian side shall ensure that [in the West Bank and Gaza Strip] NO CONSTRUCTION CLOSE TO THE SETTLEMENTS and MILITARY LOCATIONS will harm, damage or adversely affect them or the infrastructure serving them." (Article 27-3a)
"Israeli public transportation routes FROM ISRAEL TO AND BETWEEN SETTLEMENTS and
MILITARY LOCATIONS, and/or to other places in Israel, shall be determined by Israel.
Bus stops at the main junctions LEADING TO SETTLEMENTS and MILITARY LOCATIONS or
Palestinian villages in the West Bank will be determined in cooperation between
Israeli and Palestinian traffic controllers.
EXISTING BUS STOPS WILL BE KEPT AT JEWISH HOLY SITES [in PA-controlled areas]." (Article 38-10b-c)
Needless to say, that last one is just a bad joke.
-----------
Oslo II, 1995 [emphasis added]:
"Israel shall continue to carry the responsibility for defense against external threats, including the responsibility for protecting the Egyptian and Jordanian borders, and for defense against external threats from the sea and from the air, as well as the responsibility FOR OVERALL SECURITY OF ISRAELIS AND SETTLEMENTS, for the purpose of safeguarding their internal security and public order, and WILL HAVE ALL THE POWERS to take the steps necessary to meet this responsibility."
"For the purpose of this Agreement, "the Settlements" means, in the West Bank THE SETTLEMENTS IN AREA C; and in the Gaza Strip - the Gush Katif and Erez SETTLEMENT AREAS, as well as THE OTHER SETTLEMENTS IN THE GAZA STRIP, as shown on attached map." (Article 12)
"For the purposes of this Annex, "Territory" means West Bank territory except for Area
C which, EXCEPT FOR THE SETTLEMENTS and the MILITARY LOCATIONS, will be gradually
transferred to the Palestinian side in accordance with this Agreement, and Gaza Strip
territory EXCEPT FOR THE SETTLEMENTS and the MILITARY INSTALLATION Area." (Annex IV)
----------
Takeaway: What the Palestinians couldn't get legally, they got through brute extortion of Israel and bullying of the West -- by demanding settlement "freezes" in return for stopping illegal terror attacks (killing both Israelis and foreigners).
That's when the global community started fabricating the 'illegality' of settlements, and even redefining "settlement expansion" as building a new flat or a school inside their existing borders.
That's when Israel tried to buy international legitimacy by voluntarily pulling all settlements out of Gaza. It didn't bring legitimacy to Israel, but at least it showed the world EXACTLY how "a state of Palestine" will function.
So maybe you didn't know about this before, Will. But you do now.
The Palestinians have never been willing to recognize Jewish sovereignty over any part of the land. They’ve turned down a 2-state solution several times. That’s the crux of the problem, not the settlements. Without that, why should Israel agree to a Palestinian state? It would only be used for more attacks on Israel.
I actually very much appreciate the "Palestinians" (a fake people) for turning down all the 2 state deals. Now the idiots who thought it was a good idea have had a chance to take a second look. It never was, but October 7th seals that coffin shut permanently.
Correction: The Elephant in the Room is the sabotage of the Western powers, who consistently refuse to let Israel follow up on those strategic moves with tactical successes.
The UN and the US have a habit of handwringing over the "risk of escalation of tensions" -- but only after Israeli's enemies strike, giving Israel the right to strike back proportionately.
It happened every time the Oslo Accords were violated by terror attacks in Israel's coastal cities (NOT SETTLEMENTS), every time Hamas fired missiles into southern Israeli towns (NOT SETTLEMENTS), every time Hezbollah fired missiles into Israel's northern hills (NOT SETTLEMENTS).
I agree, Eli DID avoid looking at that Elephant.
And so did you.
Bravo‼️
You are absolutely 100% WRONG. I'm not sure you know much about this conflict at all. It has NOTHING to do with land (duh). This is a religious war that Islam is waging on the Jews. Why do westerners not understand that?!
You obviously don't know about the history or the geography of the place either. Judea and Samaria (which you mistakenly refer to as the West Bank) has ALWAYS been Jewish land. Please inform yourself instead of listening to talking heads who are similarly ignorant of the facts.
There’s actually plenty of people who talk about this very thing. There’s people who have very, very specific plans regarding the settlements (including but not all all limited to the Trump admin), and plenty of people who are against them all together. However, even if Israel uprooted every settlement, like they did in Gaza - even dug up the dead - no Palestinian governing body (PA, any other leader, or their 50+ terrorist organizations) what a state. They want to destroy Israel more than they want a state. They won’t even except a state handed to them under any terms of except “from the water to the water Palestine is Arab.”
TLDR: settlers, however bad, are not the route of the problem. Islamism stops at nothing.