We have an entire generation of young men who've been told they're toxic trash for their entire lives. And now we're acting shocked that there's a male crisis?
The author also talks about men slaving away at a 9-to-5 for a crappy apartment as if it's a character defect. Does she realize that's just the economic reality for men? Men have to provide for themselves however they can. That's never changed. They generally don't have the option of marrying a rich spouse or making millions of dollars because they look great in a bikini.
Many of these well meaning comments about “just talk to people” feel a little like “let them eat cake”. Suggesting a solution with little real world familiarity with the subject isn’t helpful. (I’m nearly 50 and currently in on bumble. I have no problem talking to people, I just want to make sure someone is actually single and interested in a relationship). The world has changed so much, I think relationship classes should be part of high school curriculum. Seriously.
Futile. All these discussions about dating, romance, apps, and marriage are futile until we recognize and address what we’re all looking for in all that frenetic desire to connect. We want to feel loved. And right there the conversation either stops or explodes. We can’t even define love. Sure, romance looks and feels exciting, but we want a kind of love—an entirely different and better love—that most of us have never seen. We want to be loved unconditionally, where we don’t have to earn it, where we don’t have to buy it with our appearance, our success, and all those qualities we desperately include in our profiles. In unconditional love, real love, there is no disappointment or anger. None. Imagine that. Most of us can’t imagine, and yet this unconditional love is what makes life worth living. It heals the wounds of the past. And it exists. It’s not a mystery. Learn about it at RealLove.com, a website that is my life’s passion, a source of guidance that promises genuine happiness and confidence, without attempting to sell anything.
Today's HR departments put the fear of God into everyone now as well...the place the majority of people spend their time, you are screwed if you have an organic connection w/ someone. Our culture has injected paranoia into normal human interactions.
500# gorilla in the room: how many of these young adults were raises by parents who spent more time on their phones than with their children? the resulting stunted socialization, i'm sure, is part of the anxiety and suicide ... meaningful personal relationships are not part of their vocabulary. Sadly. Very Sadly.
Is being in a couple THE answer? I’m female, straight, 51, and single by choice, after 30 years of meaningful, diverse dating. I sure wanted a husband. But I got other things instead. I’m my own best friend. I love and am loved by many people, including my two children, who seem fine without a father.
Biology sends us powerful internal messages to couple, but most marriages are not too exciting after a few decades. (Just observing.) Most single adults are not losers or disaffected. That’s a stereotype. I encourage my children to dive into relationships and have all the experiences they want. I am sorry for the challenges of their generation. Maybe your anguish is worse than mine was. But remember, you were born a whole person and you are enough.
Reading this makes me sad. It looks like there is a whole generation of Man/babies out there. What women want are confident men, not little boys. My son is 18 and has more game than men twice his age. He is short for his age, but has the girls in school falling all over themselves to talk to him. You know why? He is confident, and funny, and not afraid to talk to women in person. He started dating his current girlfriend by walking up to her and asking her out. She liked that he just had the confidence to ask her, no games, or silly rehearsed lines or trying to be friends and weasel his way in.
That's the trick -- delete all apps. In fact, leave your phone at home. Get out and choose a sport or other activity that includes women, such as golf, tennis, cycling, hiking, or join an art class or singing group -- you decide. You'll meet someone who is actually interesting, engaged with the world and healthy, mentally as well as physically. How to talk to women? Talk to them as if they're a friendly neighbour, that's all.
Women, eventually, do not make decisions about men based on looks. They are usually more interested in what sort of person you are (what kind of father you will be; will you be supportive financially and emotionally).
The so called elite are most likely a bunch of good-looking clods who are looking for short term affairs.
Join the military, join a church or synagogue or masjid. Just get out there. It was surprising that many of the guys mentioned had opportunities IRL to go out with interested women and backed out… that will never work…self fulfilling prophecy.
God, I remember how horrible online dating was even 6 to 8 years ago. Thank Christ I’m married now. I DID meet my wife on okcupid but it took a long fucking time and a lot of shit.
66 yo married lady, 33 year marriage. I had 3 bad relationships with men who turned out to be abusive before I got sober in 1987. 2 years alone helped me to resolve that and I married really well. The thing that helped me the most? God. I prayed for God to help me meet the right person. I asked his protection and care in my dating life. I would not sleep with anyone when I was dating them, because I decided I was going to wait until I met the man I was going to marry.
It has ALWAYS been difficult and painful to try and meet people. Don't let anyone fool you into believing otherwise, because that is hogwash. It is hard as hell to meet someone, no matter what you look like on the outside and no matter what year it is. Believe me, good looking people who care about themselves spend many, many lonely nights while they wait to meet the right person.
Here's how I see it - there are the masses of people out there in the world that just want a hookup. But if you're a sensitive person or you have a defect in your own eyes, like being short, then it makes it more difficult, because you're not going to walk down the street on any given day and run into someone who is perfect for you. But regardless of what you look like, because being short actually is NOT a defect, running into the next person you meet on the street and falling in love only happens if you have no standards. I mean, it could happen, but most likely won't.
Lying in bed masturbating to porn is a sad way to live, because it is equivalent to being a drug addict. One becomes addicted to this sick behavior and like the guy in your article, Bari, more and more isolated. When I got sober 35 years ago I had a byword to my sobriety, "I cannot think myself to better living, rather I must live my way to better thinking." The way you change is by making a decision and then following through - even though you don't feel like it.
Sorry to blab on, but I feel such empathy for the young people who are struggling to meet someone that I can't help myself from saying these things. Have you ever heard of the saying, "Birds of a feather flock together?" Well, this has more to do with the inside of us than the outside of us. What is important is to become the type of person you want to marry. Look at yourself. What do you need to change about your attitude, your outlook on life and the way you behave? You know what? Bruno Mars is 5'5" and he is swarmed with women. He didn't let being short hold him back. He has worked on making sure he has other talents that have amplified his attractiveness to others. Men who are 5'4" tall have regularly married gorgeous, loving women - if they have a good job, a great personality, a warmth about them and probably a decent income.
Its all about how we react to what life dishes out to us that separates the kids from the adults in the room.
Fret not, thought many in the older, pre-cultivation, pre-Christian, pre-Muslim, pre-Gutenberg, pre-Lutheran, pre-Anglican, generations. This will all blow over, the kids will come back to our way of thinking, the proper way of thinking.
As a woman who was in the online dating world some 10-20 years ago, pre-Tinder and pre-apps, I can take a stab at why none of these young men have found Miss Right, and it's not their height or head measurements or anything else they think it is. It's because as much as they whine about women's unreasonable standards and their pickiness, THEY are also unrealistic in their expectations. I wonder if any of these guys are "swiping right" on women who have physical imperfections of their own, like being a few pounds overweight. Or women older than them. I would love to see the kind of women they engage with. I would bet actual money that none of them are the physical counterparts of these guys. Men on dating sites have inflated perceptions of their own attractiveness and appeal, and think they can get women who look like models. Maybe we can blame that on porn and video games too. They will have to settle for someone considerably less than their ideal if they don't want to fail.
In pre-Internet times, young people would meet potential mates at places like church events, dances, and at work. Declining religious observance, remote working and #MeToo have put an end to that. A potential partner was not reduced to a thumbnail photo in a profile, but was a living, breathing presence with a personality. I wonder how many married couples who met the old fashioned way would have rejected one another based on a Tinder or OK Cupid profile?
I am a 41 year old male from Western Canada. Before I jot down some thoughts on this great article I just want to point out this incredible line from the above: “Between social media and porn and podcasts and video games, you can live a low quality simulation of what a fulfilling life would be,”
Personally I think this article leans to heavily on....god its so hard to place but I think something else is going on in a persons life when for instance you sit in your parents basement all day programming games and never going out and are so consumed with this self loathing that you cannot even bring yourself to go out and meet one of these matches. I find it hard to capture how I feel about this but I think the article leans to heavily on "dating" when what this article is really about is how fake and phoney our entire online lives have become. dating or not. My bet is that the guy sitting in his parents basement and programming games and too scared to meet his date just needs a fresh new perspective not defined by his online reality.
So at the end of the day I think this article is not really about dating at all...but about how much our online "realities" have taken over our day to day lives. Online dating apps seem similar to Twitter....so real when you are suck into it and consumed by it...but once you step away your realize things are not quite as bad as it seems when your stuck in that world...
I thought the same thing. I also wondered how a "simulation" of their offspring will care for them in their old age, which will not be a "simulation," but very real.
What's the deal with height? It comes up repeatedly in these two pieces. I'm gay (and under 6'). Never been on Tinder or Bumble or any other straight app. But on the gay apps it just isn't a central concern the way it apparently is for straights.
We have an entire generation of young men who've been told they're toxic trash for their entire lives. And now we're acting shocked that there's a male crisis?
The author also talks about men slaving away at a 9-to-5 for a crappy apartment as if it's a character defect. Does she realize that's just the economic reality for men? Men have to provide for themselves however they can. That's never changed. They generally don't have the option of marrying a rich spouse or making millions of dollars because they look great in a bikini.
Many of these well meaning comments about “just talk to people” feel a little like “let them eat cake”. Suggesting a solution with little real world familiarity with the subject isn’t helpful. (I’m nearly 50 and currently in on bumble. I have no problem talking to people, I just want to make sure someone is actually single and interested in a relationship). The world has changed so much, I think relationship classes should be part of high school curriculum. Seriously.
Futile. All these discussions about dating, romance, apps, and marriage are futile until we recognize and address what we’re all looking for in all that frenetic desire to connect. We want to feel loved. And right there the conversation either stops or explodes. We can’t even define love. Sure, romance looks and feels exciting, but we want a kind of love—an entirely different and better love—that most of us have never seen. We want to be loved unconditionally, where we don’t have to earn it, where we don’t have to buy it with our appearance, our success, and all those qualities we desperately include in our profiles. In unconditional love, real love, there is no disappointment or anger. None. Imagine that. Most of us can’t imagine, and yet this unconditional love is what makes life worth living. It heals the wounds of the past. And it exists. It’s not a mystery. Learn about it at RealLove.com, a website that is my life’s passion, a source of guidance that promises genuine happiness and confidence, without attempting to sell anything.
Today's HR departments put the fear of God into everyone now as well...the place the majority of people spend their time, you are screwed if you have an organic connection w/ someone. Our culture has injected paranoia into normal human interactions.
500# gorilla in the room: how many of these young adults were raises by parents who spent more time on their phones than with their children? the resulting stunted socialization, i'm sure, is part of the anxiety and suicide ... meaningful personal relationships are not part of their vocabulary. Sadly. Very Sadly.
X
Is being in a couple THE answer? I’m female, straight, 51, and single by choice, after 30 years of meaningful, diverse dating. I sure wanted a husband. But I got other things instead. I’m my own best friend. I love and am loved by many people, including my two children, who seem fine without a father.
Biology sends us powerful internal messages to couple, but most marriages are not too exciting after a few decades. (Just observing.) Most single adults are not losers or disaffected. That’s a stereotype. I encourage my children to dive into relationships and have all the experiences they want. I am sorry for the challenges of their generation. Maybe your anguish is worse than mine was. But remember, you were born a whole person and you are enough.
Reading this makes me sad. It looks like there is a whole generation of Man/babies out there. What women want are confident men, not little boys. My son is 18 and has more game than men twice his age. He is short for his age, but has the girls in school falling all over themselves to talk to him. You know why? He is confident, and funny, and not afraid to talk to women in person. He started dating his current girlfriend by walking up to her and asking her out. She liked that he just had the confidence to ask her, no games, or silly rehearsed lines or trying to be friends and weasel his way in.
That's the trick -- delete all apps. In fact, leave your phone at home. Get out and choose a sport or other activity that includes women, such as golf, tennis, cycling, hiking, or join an art class or singing group -- you decide. You'll meet someone who is actually interesting, engaged with the world and healthy, mentally as well as physically. How to talk to women? Talk to them as if they're a friendly neighbour, that's all.
Do everything you can to get offline and get out.
Women, eventually, do not make decisions about men based on looks. They are usually more interested in what sort of person you are (what kind of father you will be; will you be supportive financially and emotionally).
The so called elite are most likely a bunch of good-looking clods who are looking for short term affairs.
Join the military, join a church or synagogue or masjid. Just get out there. It was surprising that many of the guys mentioned had opportunities IRL to go out with interested women and backed out… that will never work…self fulfilling prophecy.
God, I remember how horrible online dating was even 6 to 8 years ago. Thank Christ I’m married now. I DID meet my wife on okcupid but it took a long fucking time and a lot of shit.
66 yo married lady, 33 year marriage. I had 3 bad relationships with men who turned out to be abusive before I got sober in 1987. 2 years alone helped me to resolve that and I married really well. The thing that helped me the most? God. I prayed for God to help me meet the right person. I asked his protection and care in my dating life. I would not sleep with anyone when I was dating them, because I decided I was going to wait until I met the man I was going to marry.
It has ALWAYS been difficult and painful to try and meet people. Don't let anyone fool you into believing otherwise, because that is hogwash. It is hard as hell to meet someone, no matter what you look like on the outside and no matter what year it is. Believe me, good looking people who care about themselves spend many, many lonely nights while they wait to meet the right person.
Here's how I see it - there are the masses of people out there in the world that just want a hookup. But if you're a sensitive person or you have a defect in your own eyes, like being short, then it makes it more difficult, because you're not going to walk down the street on any given day and run into someone who is perfect for you. But regardless of what you look like, because being short actually is NOT a defect, running into the next person you meet on the street and falling in love only happens if you have no standards. I mean, it could happen, but most likely won't.
Lying in bed masturbating to porn is a sad way to live, because it is equivalent to being a drug addict. One becomes addicted to this sick behavior and like the guy in your article, Bari, more and more isolated. When I got sober 35 years ago I had a byword to my sobriety, "I cannot think myself to better living, rather I must live my way to better thinking." The way you change is by making a decision and then following through - even though you don't feel like it.
Sorry to blab on, but I feel such empathy for the young people who are struggling to meet someone that I can't help myself from saying these things. Have you ever heard of the saying, "Birds of a feather flock together?" Well, this has more to do with the inside of us than the outside of us. What is important is to become the type of person you want to marry. Look at yourself. What do you need to change about your attitude, your outlook on life and the way you behave? You know what? Bruno Mars is 5'5" and he is swarmed with women. He didn't let being short hold him back. He has worked on making sure he has other talents that have amplified his attractiveness to others. Men who are 5'4" tall have regularly married gorgeous, loving women - if they have a good job, a great personality, a warmth about them and probably a decent income.
Its all about how we react to what life dishes out to us that separates the kids from the adults in the room.
Fret not, thought many in the older, pre-cultivation, pre-Christian, pre-Muslim, pre-Gutenberg, pre-Lutheran, pre-Anglican, generations. This will all blow over, the kids will come back to our way of thinking, the proper way of thinking.
As a woman who was in the online dating world some 10-20 years ago, pre-Tinder and pre-apps, I can take a stab at why none of these young men have found Miss Right, and it's not their height or head measurements or anything else they think it is. It's because as much as they whine about women's unreasonable standards and their pickiness, THEY are also unrealistic in their expectations. I wonder if any of these guys are "swiping right" on women who have physical imperfections of their own, like being a few pounds overweight. Or women older than them. I would love to see the kind of women they engage with. I would bet actual money that none of them are the physical counterparts of these guys. Men on dating sites have inflated perceptions of their own attractiveness and appeal, and think they can get women who look like models. Maybe we can blame that on porn and video games too. They will have to settle for someone considerably less than their ideal if they don't want to fail.
In pre-Internet times, young people would meet potential mates at places like church events, dances, and at work. Declining religious observance, remote working and #MeToo have put an end to that. A potential partner was not reduced to a thumbnail photo in a profile, but was a living, breathing presence with a personality. I wonder how many married couples who met the old fashioned way would have rejected one another based on a Tinder or OK Cupid profile?
I am a 41 year old male from Western Canada. Before I jot down some thoughts on this great article I just want to point out this incredible line from the above: “Between social media and porn and podcasts and video games, you can live a low quality simulation of what a fulfilling life would be,”
Personally I think this article leans to heavily on....god its so hard to place but I think something else is going on in a persons life when for instance you sit in your parents basement all day programming games and never going out and are so consumed with this self loathing that you cannot even bring yourself to go out and meet one of these matches. I find it hard to capture how I feel about this but I think the article leans to heavily on "dating" when what this article is really about is how fake and phoney our entire online lives have become. dating or not. My bet is that the guy sitting in his parents basement and programming games and too scared to meet his date just needs a fresh new perspective not defined by his online reality.
So at the end of the day I think this article is not really about dating at all...but about how much our online "realities" have taken over our day to day lives. Online dating apps seem similar to Twitter....so real when you are suck into it and consumed by it...but once you step away your realize things are not quite as bad as it seems when your stuck in that world...
I thought the same thing. I also wondered how a "simulation" of their offspring will care for them in their old age, which will not be a "simulation," but very real.
What's the deal with height? It comes up repeatedly in these two pieces. I'm gay (and under 6'). Never been on Tinder or Bumble or any other straight app. But on the gay apps it just isn't a central concern the way it apparently is for straights.
Because women like to be with a man who is taller than them. And men generally like to be with a woman who is shorter. That pre-dates the Internet.