The book sounds so intriguing to me. I’ve always been fascinated by the Old South , Christian culture there through history and learning about Southern thought today.
The suggestion of having book club events live-streamed is one I applaud.
I've always wondered about the, or a, connection between Conspiracy Theories and Religion. There certainly sounds like a connection between the idea that a central omipower in the sky realm binds all of existence, and that every event has a deep rooted, invisible causes hidden behind divine intention.
The logical path is the same. That if you can't prove something did not happen, does not exist, then that's actually somehow evidence that it *may* in fact exist. The demons wiring up my brain in a jar, to manipulate my perception, my be reality - because prove it's not. There's no way to reason with someone who has forsaken it.
For anyone interested, here is the more complete quote from Flannery O’Connor-indeed one of the South’s finest. I think it merits reading in its entirety.
“I think that if there is any value in hearing writers talk, it will be in hearing what they can witness to and not what they can theorize about. My own approach to literary problems is very like the one Dr. Johnson’s blind housekeeper used when she poured tea — she put her finger inside the cup.
These are not times when writers in this country can very well speak for one another. . . . Today each writer speaks for himself, even though he may not be sure that his work is important enough to justify his doing so.
When we look at a good deal of serious modern fiction, and particularly Southern fiction, we find this quality about it that is generally described, in a pejorative sense, as grotesque. Of course, I have found that anything that comes out of the South is going to be called grotesque by the Northern reader, unless it is grotesque, in which case it is going to be called realistic. But for this occasion, we may leave such misapplications aside and consider the kind of fiction that may be called grotesque with good reason, because of a directed intention that way on the part of the author.
In these grotesque works, we find that the writer has made alive some experience which we are not accustomed to observe every day, or which the ordinary man may never experience in his ordinary life. We find that connections which we would expect in the customary kind of realism have been ignored, that there are strange skips and gaps which anyone trying to describe manners and customs would certainly not have left. Yet the characters have an inner coherence, if not always a coherence to their social framework. Their fictional qualities lean away from typical social patterns, toward mystery and the unexpected. It is this kind of realism that I want to consider.
All novelists are fundamentally seekers and describers of the real, but the realism of each novelist will depend on his view of the ultimate reaches of reality.
Whenever I’m asked why Southern writers particularly have a penchant for writing about freaks, I say it is because we are still able to recognize one. To be able to recognize a freak, you have to have some conception of the whole man, and in the South the general conception of man is still, in the main, theological. That is a large statement, and it is dangerous to make it, for almost anything you say about Southern belief can be denied in the next breath with equal propriety. But approaching the subject from the standpoint of the writer, I think it is safe to say that while the South is hardly Christ-centered, it is most certainly Christ-haunted. The Southerner, who isn’t convinced of it, is very much afraid that he may have been formed in the image and likeness of God. Ghosts can be very fierce and instructive. They cast strange shadows, particularly in our literature. In any case, it is when the freak can be sensed as a figure for our essential displacement that he attains some depth in literature.”
Great article. Having been a Southern Baptist in Florida, and seeing the inconsistencies, (dare I say hypocrisy?}, I agree with your description. It is accurate to my observations. Your history is spot on.
I know personally how I "lived in sin" and justified it. At least it wasn't as bad as other people's sin, right? But it still bothered me that a good SB could live that way.
Surprisingly accurate description of the differences between Calvinism and Arminian theology. Didn’t think I’d read that in a FP piece, when I don’t even see it at the Christian nonprofit I work for.
A survey done a few years ago showed that southern middle class and lower class gave to charities far more than their elite, Yankee counter parts, called Democrats.
I respectfully suggest that a google search for Bari Weiss and her end times as a NYTimes reporter will tell you who she is and her vision for The Free Press. She is fearless.
The idea that hip waders full of water drag you down is a very old and completely ridiculous myth. Think about it: the water inside the boots weighs the same as the water outside the boots. Anybody can swim as far as they want to wearing waders. I've done it. You can do it.
I have to commend Mr. Page for the accuracy of his assessment. Living in what's called the buckle on the Bible Belt, just walking out of Walmart will get me an admonition to "Have a blessed day."
"If you want to understand Southerners, you need to understand this"
That the South is the last place in the US where people fear God, that the South is "Christ Haunted", etc. As someone who has spent about half of my 70+ years in the South, I can confidently say this is ridiculous nonsense. It seems to be the writer's experience, but let's not generalize his limited experience to millions of people.
I am sick and tired of these types of descriptions of the South....I moved to Atlanta from Los Angeles (specifically woke Calabasas) a little over two years ago and I can tell you that the South is nothing like what Northerners and Westerners like to paint it....and I am Jewish so if I felt or saw anything like what you are describing, I would be extra sensitive to it....stop making this part of the country so vile....the people here in the South are Americans of all types...stay away because we are the best kept secret around (meaning the wonderful and gracious South)
The book sounds so intriguing to me. I’ve always been fascinated by the Old South , Christian culture there through history and learning about Southern thought today.
The suggestion of having book club events live-streamed is one I applaud.
I've always wondered about the, or a, connection between Conspiracy Theories and Religion. There certainly sounds like a connection between the idea that a central omipower in the sky realm binds all of existence, and that every event has a deep rooted, invisible causes hidden behind divine intention.
The logical path is the same. That if you can't prove something did not happen, does not exist, then that's actually somehow evidence that it *may* in fact exist. The demons wiring up my brain in a jar, to manipulate my perception, my be reality - because prove it's not. There's no way to reason with someone who has forsaken it.
Why have a book club meeting one day after the book is released? Are people supposed to have read it before the event?
Is there a live stream for the event?
For anyone interested, here is the more complete quote from Flannery O’Connor-indeed one of the South’s finest. I think it merits reading in its entirety.
“I think that if there is any value in hearing writers talk, it will be in hearing what they can witness to and not what they can theorize about. My own approach to literary problems is very like the one Dr. Johnson’s blind housekeeper used when she poured tea — she put her finger inside the cup.
These are not times when writers in this country can very well speak for one another. . . . Today each writer speaks for himself, even though he may not be sure that his work is important enough to justify his doing so.
When we look at a good deal of serious modern fiction, and particularly Southern fiction, we find this quality about it that is generally described, in a pejorative sense, as grotesque. Of course, I have found that anything that comes out of the South is going to be called grotesque by the Northern reader, unless it is grotesque, in which case it is going to be called realistic. But for this occasion, we may leave such misapplications aside and consider the kind of fiction that may be called grotesque with good reason, because of a directed intention that way on the part of the author.
In these grotesque works, we find that the writer has made alive some experience which we are not accustomed to observe every day, or which the ordinary man may never experience in his ordinary life. We find that connections which we would expect in the customary kind of realism have been ignored, that there are strange skips and gaps which anyone trying to describe manners and customs would certainly not have left. Yet the characters have an inner coherence, if not always a coherence to their social framework. Their fictional qualities lean away from typical social patterns, toward mystery and the unexpected. It is this kind of realism that I want to consider.
All novelists are fundamentally seekers and describers of the real, but the realism of each novelist will depend on his view of the ultimate reaches of reality.
Whenever I’m asked why Southern writers particularly have a penchant for writing about freaks, I say it is because we are still able to recognize one. To be able to recognize a freak, you have to have some conception of the whole man, and in the South the general conception of man is still, in the main, theological. That is a large statement, and it is dangerous to make it, for almost anything you say about Southern belief can be denied in the next breath with equal propriety. But approaching the subject from the standpoint of the writer, I think it is safe to say that while the South is hardly Christ-centered, it is most certainly Christ-haunted. The Southerner, who isn’t convinced of it, is very much afraid that he may have been formed in the image and likeness of God. Ghosts can be very fierce and instructive. They cast strange shadows, particularly in our literature. In any case, it is when the freak can be sensed as a figure for our essential displacement that he attains some depth in literature.”
Great article. Having been a Southern Baptist in Florida, and seeing the inconsistencies, (dare I say hypocrisy?}, I agree with your description. It is accurate to my observations. Your history is spot on.
I know personally how I "lived in sin" and justified it. At least it wasn't as bad as other people's sin, right? But it still bothered me that a good SB could live that way.
Surprisingly accurate description of the differences between Calvinism and Arminian theology. Didn’t think I’d read that in a FP piece, when I don’t even see it at the Christian nonprofit I work for.
When do we register for the book talk?
A survey done a few years ago showed that southern middle class and lower class gave to charities far more than their elite, Yankee counter parts, called Democrats.
This will back up my claim::
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/more-generous-liberals-conservatives-081500677.html
https://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2014/10/17/Ten-Least-Generous-States-US
https://www.thefiscaltimes.com/2014/10/17/Ten-Most-Generous-States-US
What the heck IS the free Press anyway????? Are they trying to be fair news reporting or everything to everyone?? WHAT IS YOYR GOAL here?
I respectfully suggest that a google search for Bari Weiss and her end times as a NYTimes reporter will tell you who she is and her vision for The Free Press. She is fearless.
Is the book club only in person, or is there a virtual option?
The idea that hip waders full of water drag you down is a very old and completely ridiculous myth. Think about it: the water inside the boots weighs the same as the water outside the boots. Anybody can swim as far as they want to wearing waders. I've done it. You can do it.
He’s not a particular person but writing about a regional attitude. I won’t use the adjective but it’s fair to call these people trash.
I have to commend Mr. Page for the accuracy of his assessment. Living in what's called the buckle on the Bible Belt, just walking out of Walmart will get me an admonition to "Have a blessed day."
And walking out of the Walmart in Oakland will get you robbed.
Or killed. Both have happened at the Walmart just over a mile from my house here in Flyover country.
How true. You made me laugh.
"If you want to understand Southerners, you need to understand this"
That the South is the last place in the US where people fear God, that the South is "Christ Haunted", etc. As someone who has spent about half of my 70+ years in the South, I can confidently say this is ridiculous nonsense. It seems to be the writer's experience, but let's not generalize his limited experience to millions of people.
I am sick and tired of these types of descriptions of the South....I moved to Atlanta from Los Angeles (specifically woke Calabasas) a little over two years ago and I can tell you that the South is nothing like what Northerners and Westerners like to paint it....and I am Jewish so if I felt or saw anything like what you are describing, I would be extra sensitive to it....stop making this part of the country so vile....the people here in the South are Americans of all types...stay away because we are the best kept secret around (meaning the wonderful and gracious South)
People may make fun of the south but no one retires and moves north.
Sounds like a good book. I might even be able to get my wife to read it.
I like how the guy passed the test of God. Didn’t drown but then he killed him anyway. Apparently divorce isn’t okay but adultery and murder are?
I suppose i’ll buy the book since I was unable to persuade the free press to send me a free one 😭😭😭😭😭😭😭