I am flabbergasted at the "arguments" to continue funding the UN because it is in our "interest" (we shouldn't even be a member, let alone fund it).
1. The US gets intelligence. OK, yes, there might be some low hanging fruit from time to time. But at the expense of giving moral legitimacy to despicable regimes that are emboldened and more dangerous for the very fact that the US funds and is part of the UN? That is beyond absurd. And your example is Iran being "credibly accused" of smuggling guns? In 1989? Are you serious? There would very likely be less need for costly intelligence because these dangerous regimes and organisations would be weakened and less relevant overall if the UN did not exist.
2. NYC makes some money for playing host to the UN? Economically - that is beyond juvenile. It assumes that the land and space the UN building (and all of its uneconomic activity beyond diplomats spending money) would be 0 producing without the UN. You don't think that NYC would be able to generate more than those diplomats spend by having that space used productively? And for things that don't undermine America and its interests? Morally - that is just horrific. That you consider 5bn / year "worth" it for Americans to directly support regimes and terrorist organisations who condemn it and probably gain far, far, far more value from the UN's existence (that the US pays for) is appalling.
So Lake’s strongest argument is the pumped up civic booster one? The immediate counter is what do we actually lose if we shut them down - fewer human right travesties and fewer egoists parading as experts under the mantle of an organization where we offer up a big part of their platform. The only way to count this is a net win.
So here lets give them the bare minimum of money to keep them in NY , we paid 18 billion in 2022 the bare minimum payment was $3,060,000 that means we would have save $14,940,000 . So whats the problem is 15 billion not worth saving , lets do it people ! Seems like both could agree here ?
Better plan. US drops out of UN and kicks it out of NY. We immediately found a new organization called Union of Non-Shitty Countries. The bar doesn't have to be that high. It can't be too high or the US wouldn't even be able to join. If you have some basics of democracy, voting, individual rights, mostly independent courts, then you're in. Russia, China, North Korea, Iran definitely out. Venezuela, most but not all middle-eastern countries.. out. We can have some quibbling about some other countries. That would be a more worthwhile international organization to be involved with.
Defund the UN. I had no idea how much we pay. The UN no longer stands for our allies or the US. Refund the money to the taxpayers. It’s time to stop spending
Like the Soviet Union, the UN is moving with momentum alone rather than any animation to do it's job. This will continue until a major showdown causes the foundation to finally crumble from underneath it. Israel might be the start of that.
I would be greatly surprised if at the top levels of the Israeli state there has not been a quiet debate and planning about when or if, they will have to tell the UN to go to hell and leave the organization. Eventually the benefits of belonging will be outweighed by the constant abuse they suffer.
Israel is not just another small country, If Haiti suddenly left the UN, tongues would cluck and heads would shake at the folly, but if Israel left the consequences could trigger the kind of diplomatic crisis that would cause serious damage to the UNs perceived authority and prestige.
I think that the demise of the UN is all but guaranteed at this point, but I don't think the US should be the one to cast the first stone. Being able to say, we tried our damnedest to make it work is an important distinction to have in the chaos that will follow.
Rupa neglected to deploy #1 argument against the UN: that it sanctions evil regimes at the expense of those that are relatively free. It hobbles those nations which at least attempt to protect individual rights and it hands the reins of power to the thug dictators.
It is a moral obscenity that Russia and China would have veto power over the free nations of the West.
It is difficult not to see this article as one straight-forward essay about abolishing the UN, and a mildly humorous and unserious palate cleanser to go with it. Eli obviously agrees with Rupa so why call it a "fight club"? I would appreciate an actual debate on the subject -- I think it has the potential to be quite edifying. Unfortunately, for reasons of time or disinterest, that didn't happen. Turtle Bay as one big Bug to eavesdrop on the bad actors? Okay, Snowden's work stated the obvious. But does the FP not have ONE writer who might actually make a case, if only as a way to showcase some decent debating chops? Come on...
The UN is an outrage and I am 100% with Rupa on abolishing the UN. Let the UN move to Venezuela. There is no way the US should be hosting countries that spit in our face and want to destroy us, to say nothing of enslaving their own people. By hosting the UN we are sanctioning evil. As for intelligence, I question whether we get worthwhile intelligence through the UN, and at what price? There are better ways to gather intelligence. We are breaking bread with dictators, murderers, those who rape women and children in the name of their religion, terrorist who store weapons in schools and hospitals... We should be ashamed of hosting the UN.
Sorry Eli, but the sale of the condominiums created from shutting down the UN would help offset the $5B spent in NYC, and considering the US portion is $18B for UN funding, that $5B referenced indirectly comes from us anyway! It might be a better use if the federal government just gifted the $5B to NYC.
Title of article is abolish not move.. We need not spend good taxpayer money on a platform that adds any degree of legitamacy to rogue, dictatorships and even misguided American Presidents critical of Israel. As for "enlightened western democracies" this outlet is too convient a forum for virtue signaling to their rotten streets. Too bad , a good idea backfires.
I am flabbergasted at the "arguments" to continue funding the UN because it is in our "interest" (we shouldn't even be a member, let alone fund it).
1. The US gets intelligence. OK, yes, there might be some low hanging fruit from time to time. But at the expense of giving moral legitimacy to despicable regimes that are emboldened and more dangerous for the very fact that the US funds and is part of the UN? That is beyond absurd. And your example is Iran being "credibly accused" of smuggling guns? In 1989? Are you serious? There would very likely be less need for costly intelligence because these dangerous regimes and organisations would be weakened and less relevant overall if the UN did not exist.
2. NYC makes some money for playing host to the UN? Economically - that is beyond juvenile. It assumes that the land and space the UN building (and all of its uneconomic activity beyond diplomats spending money) would be 0 producing without the UN. You don't think that NYC would be able to generate more than those diplomats spend by having that space used productively? And for things that don't undermine America and its interests? Morally - that is just horrific. That you consider 5bn / year "worth" it for Americans to directly support regimes and terrorist organisations who condemn it and probably gain far, far, far more value from the UN's existence (that the US pays for) is appalling.
I vote to defund it. Rupa made her case, Eli didn't. In fact, his arguments help Rupa's case!
So Lake’s strongest argument is the pumped up civic booster one? The immediate counter is what do we actually lose if we shut them down - fewer human right travesties and fewer egoists parading as experts under the mantle of an organization where we offer up a big part of their platform. The only way to count this is a net win.
So here lets give them the bare minimum of money to keep them in NY , we paid 18 billion in 2022 the bare minimum payment was $3,060,000 that means we would have save $14,940,000 . So whats the problem is 15 billion not worth saving , lets do it people ! Seems like both could agree here ?
Better plan. US drops out of UN and kicks it out of NY. We immediately found a new organization called Union of Non-Shitty Countries. The bar doesn't have to be that high. It can't be too high or the US wouldn't even be able to join. If you have some basics of democracy, voting, individual rights, mostly independent courts, then you're in. Russia, China, North Korea, Iran definitely out. Venezuela, most but not all middle-eastern countries.. out. We can have some quibbling about some other countries. That would be a more worthwhile international organization to be involved with.
Defund the UN. I had no idea how much we pay. The UN no longer stands for our allies or the US. Refund the money to the taxpayers. It’s time to stop spending
Like the Soviet Union, the UN is moving with momentum alone rather than any animation to do it's job. This will continue until a major showdown causes the foundation to finally crumble from underneath it. Israel might be the start of that.
I would be greatly surprised if at the top levels of the Israeli state there has not been a quiet debate and planning about when or if, they will have to tell the UN to go to hell and leave the organization. Eventually the benefits of belonging will be outweighed by the constant abuse they suffer.
Israel is not just another small country, If Haiti suddenly left the UN, tongues would cluck and heads would shake at the folly, but if Israel left the consequences could trigger the kind of diplomatic crisis that would cause serious damage to the UNs perceived authority and prestige.
I think that the demise of the UN is all but guaranteed at this point, but I don't think the US should be the one to cast the first stone. Being able to say, we tried our damnedest to make it work is an important distinction to have in the chaos that will follow.
Rupa, hands down!
Pay $18 billion to make $5billion
That sounds like economics by Justin Trudeau
What a deal.
I think all the dictators know they are recorded and say nothing in New York and I believe the NSA listens to the whole world
So take the $13billion dividend and blow it in some new spy gear.
Rupa rules this one.
Rupa neglected to deploy #1 argument against the UN: that it sanctions evil regimes at the expense of those that are relatively free. It hobbles those nations which at least attempt to protect individual rights and it hands the reins of power to the thug dictators.
It is a moral obscenity that Russia and China would have veto power over the free nations of the West.
Yes.
I think Rupa wins this one easily (and I think Eli, despite a valiant effort to present a counterargument, probably agrees).
It is difficult not to see this article as one straight-forward essay about abolishing the UN, and a mildly humorous and unserious palate cleanser to go with it. Eli obviously agrees with Rupa so why call it a "fight club"? I would appreciate an actual debate on the subject -- I think it has the potential to be quite edifying. Unfortunately, for reasons of time or disinterest, that didn't happen. Turtle Bay as one big Bug to eavesdrop on the bad actors? Okay, Snowden's work stated the obvious. But does the FP not have ONE writer who might actually make a case, if only as a way to showcase some decent debating chops? Come on...
The UN is an outrage and I am 100% with Rupa on abolishing the UN. Let the UN move to Venezuela. There is no way the US should be hosting countries that spit in our face and want to destroy us, to say nothing of enslaving their own people. By hosting the UN we are sanctioning evil. As for intelligence, I question whether we get worthwhile intelligence through the UN, and at what price? There are better ways to gather intelligence. We are breaking bread with dictators, murderers, those who rape women and children in the name of their religion, terrorist who store weapons in schools and hospitals... We should be ashamed of hosting the UN.
Sorry Eli, but the sale of the condominiums created from shutting down the UN would help offset the $5B spent in NYC, and considering the US portion is $18B for UN funding, that $5B referenced indirectly comes from us anyway! It might be a better use if the federal government just gifted the $5B to NYC.
Title of article is abolish not move.. We need not spend good taxpayer money on a platform that adds any degree of legitamacy to rogue, dictatorships and even misguided American Presidents critical of Israel. As for "enlightened western democracies" this outlet is too convient a forum for virtue signaling to their rotten streets. Too bad , a good idea backfires.