Economist Roland Fryer on Adversity, Race, and Refusing to Conform
A little over two years ago, in the pages of The Free Press, Pano Kanelos announced that he was starting a new university in Austin dedicated to the fearless pursuit of truth.
Fryer's opinion piece in The NY Times that the Ivy's contribute some portion of their ample endowments each year to create 100 K-12 magnet schools nation-wide to promote equality of opportunity among poor kids is brilliant. I wish that this could have been covered as well. Nevertheless, a solid interview.
1. God's chosen are economists. Writ large if economic principles are taught in an unbiased manner the world becomes clear.
2. I had a similar life experience as Professor Fryer. I know success is not dependent upon your family circumstances. You can rise above the ashes of those disadvantages and become anything.
Outstanding interview and great Q&A from the audience. I don't expect the Free Press to knock every interview and article out of the park, but this one did.
Where else are you going to hear a lesbian, Jewish, liberal woman interview a black Harvard professor who, umm, tells it like he sees it? And backs up data analysis (which can be arranged to obfuscate actual facts but not in his case) with on the ground validation? And has that discussion in the first new university focused on finding and sharing the truth, wherever it may lead?
That's what discourse should be all about. Kudos to the Free Press for this one.
Bari’s interviews are normally outstanding. She probes with a mix of grounding questions, allowing me to understand the situation and its facets and keep up with the guest’s expertise, and deeper ones that wrestle with seeming contradictions. She never hesitates to ask hard questions, but usually does so in a charming way. By contrast, I thought her interview of Fryer was too fawning – especially in the first 10-15 minutes. To me, Fryer came across as egotistical and too proud of his contrarianism. He’s obviously done great things, but he said himself that he could be an asshole and I could certainly see how he could come across that way. I think it would’ve been good for Bari to check him during the interview and talk much more about his controversial studies and what the data showed, rather than talk about how brave he was to publish them. I’ve long wanted to hear from Fryer, but I think this was a lost opportunity.
It would be helpful if you read his studies. As for being controversial, that is what the data is about - to prove or disprove preconceived notions and assumptions. Fryer did go against the grain on numerous occasions and explained what the data showed. He explained it in some detail in his interview with Bari, not sure what you mean by "and what the data showed." He went over the controversy of his findings of the police's use of force; is it possible you missed it?
Like everyone, I have too much to read and too little time, so I was hoping to rely on Bari's interview to go into the studies in more detail to tell me what they contain. I'd certainly heard the broad conclusions of Fryer's study of police violence from other sources, so I knew the overall result, but I wanted Bari to go the next level down. Instead, what we heard about was how Fryer was treated when he published the study, how people warned him against publishing, and how he had to have police protection. I just wanted more of a discussion of the substance of the study.
It would have been difficult to do in the format of just one interview, especially given that the interview was taken with Fryer meeting students at the University of Austin. I find his research on how to improve student outcomes at the low-performing schools even more fascinating, especially given how pressing it is in most inner cities: https://youtu.be/dnOi0w8rgYs?si=wfu7RoDUiEJWbxeO
This video was taken more than 10 years ago and yet very little had changed in the field of public school education.
Always a pleasure to listen to Professor Fryer. A brilliant, insightful, caustic economist, just what the doctor ordered! With the enormous challenges most inner-city schools are experiencing - only about 30% of Chicago Public Schools students meet their grade level requirements yet the mayor of the city wants to boost the neighborhood schools at the expense of selective enrollment schools - one would imagine that cities with failing schools would be running after Fryer with the open arms and open hearts. They don't...The question is why?
I completely agree with his statement that we need to figure out a way to identify and educate people with high potential. There is too much wasted talent.
I did want to interject to ask, "What exactly is your definition of 'talent'?" The word's meaning sounds, as used in this interview, like whatever it is that separates out those precious few among us who would succeed in a vanishingly small, elite selection of professions. The rest of the 95% or so of the population are left out of this narrow version of "talent."
It's the best and the brightest who got us into Vietnam, Iraq, the Covid school lockdown disaster. Some common sense street smarts might have worked more to our advantage than all of their degrees combined.
Excellent interview. Roland is not only brilliant but funny as well and it was a very insightful piece. Thank you Bari for continuing to fight the fight!!
This was definitely worth my time! Excellent! I didn’t know much about Roland and now I know he’s an inspiration. His depth of experience in life and how he’s applied it in his quest for truth in his career is really remarkable!
Fabulous interview. I actually didn't recognize the name but was familiar with some of his research, like the piece about racial bias in police shootings.
Googled him, and he was suspended from Harvard in 2019 by.... Claudine Gay (a dean at the time), over sexual harassment claims. I can't help but suspect it was just retribution by Gay who had "sole discretion over Mr. Fryer’s punishment" (NYT), over his viewpoints, at the height of "Me Too".
Fryer's opinion piece in The NY Times that the Ivy's contribute some portion of their ample endowments each year to create 100 K-12 magnet schools nation-wide to promote equality of opportunity among poor kids is brilliant. I wish that this could have been covered as well. Nevertheless, a solid interview.
Awesome interview, I also highly recommend the Roland Fryer interview on Econ Talk where he talks about education
https://www.econtalk.org/roland-fryer-on-educational-reform/
Two points:
1. God's chosen are economists. Writ large if economic principles are taught in an unbiased manner the world becomes clear.
2. I had a similar life experience as Professor Fryer. I know success is not dependent upon your family circumstances. You can rise above the ashes of those disadvantages and become anything.
Outstanding interview and great Q&A from the audience. I don't expect the Free Press to knock every interview and article out of the park, but this one did.
Where else are you going to hear a lesbian, Jewish, liberal woman interview a black Harvard professor who, umm, tells it like he sees it? And backs up data analysis (which can be arranged to obfuscate actual facts but not in his case) with on the ground validation? And has that discussion in the first new university focused on finding and sharing the truth, wherever it may lead?
That's what discourse should be all about. Kudos to the Free Press for this one.
Bari’s interviews are normally outstanding. She probes with a mix of grounding questions, allowing me to understand the situation and its facets and keep up with the guest’s expertise, and deeper ones that wrestle with seeming contradictions. She never hesitates to ask hard questions, but usually does so in a charming way. By contrast, I thought her interview of Fryer was too fawning – especially in the first 10-15 minutes. To me, Fryer came across as egotistical and too proud of his contrarianism. He’s obviously done great things, but he said himself that he could be an asshole and I could certainly see how he could come across that way. I think it would’ve been good for Bari to check him during the interview and talk much more about his controversial studies and what the data showed, rather than talk about how brave he was to publish them. I’ve long wanted to hear from Fryer, but I think this was a lost opportunity.
I suggest checking out his interview on Econ Talk on education, they really dig into that topic
https://www.econtalk.org/roland-fryer-on-educational-reform/
It would be helpful if you read his studies. As for being controversial, that is what the data is about - to prove or disprove preconceived notions and assumptions. Fryer did go against the grain on numerous occasions and explained what the data showed. He explained it in some detail in his interview with Bari, not sure what you mean by "and what the data showed." He went over the controversy of his findings of the police's use of force; is it possible you missed it?
Hello Julia,
Like everyone, I have too much to read and too little time, so I was hoping to rely on Bari's interview to go into the studies in more detail to tell me what they contain. I'd certainly heard the broad conclusions of Fryer's study of police violence from other sources, so I knew the overall result, but I wanted Bari to go the next level down. Instead, what we heard about was how Fryer was treated when he published the study, how people warned him against publishing, and how he had to have police protection. I just wanted more of a discussion of the substance of the study.
It would have been difficult to do in the format of just one interview, especially given that the interview was taken with Fryer meeting students at the University of Austin. I find his research on how to improve student outcomes at the low-performing schools even more fascinating, especially given how pressing it is in most inner cities: https://youtu.be/dnOi0w8rgYs?si=wfu7RoDUiEJWbxeO
This video was taken more than 10 years ago and yet very little had changed in the field of public school education.
Always a pleasure to listen to Professor Fryer. A brilliant, insightful, caustic economist, just what the doctor ordered! With the enormous challenges most inner-city schools are experiencing - only about 30% of Chicago Public Schools students meet their grade level requirements yet the mayor of the city wants to boost the neighborhood schools at the expense of selective enrollment schools - one would imagine that cities with failing schools would be running after Fryer with the open arms and open hearts. They don't...The question is why?
It upsets the teacher unions
Depressing. And what is more depressing is what has become of our entire public school system.
Agreed. Which is why we are home schooling
Wow, good for you if you can do that! We pulled one of our kids from the local school system to attend an independent school, for which we pay $$$.
It's definitely a financial hit having my wife with her MBA stay home to educate our kids. But worth it IMHO
Glad to hear about new academic opportunities.
I completely agree with his statement that we need to figure out a way to identify and educate people with high potential. There is too much wasted talent.
Great to hear Roland's story. Inspiring.
I did want to interject to ask, "What exactly is your definition of 'talent'?" The word's meaning sounds, as used in this interview, like whatever it is that separates out those precious few among us who would succeed in a vanishingly small, elite selection of professions. The rest of the 95% or so of the population are left out of this narrow version of "talent."
It's the best and the brightest who got us into Vietnam, Iraq, the Covid school lockdown disaster. Some common sense street smarts might have worked more to our advantage than all of their degrees combined.
Excellent interview. Roland is not only brilliant but funny as well and it was a very insightful piece. Thank you Bari for continuing to fight the fight!!
This was definitely worth my time! Excellent! I didn’t know much about Roland and now I know he’s an inspiration. His depth of experience in life and how he’s applied it in his quest for truth in his career is really remarkable!
Great interview. He needs to write a lay person's version of his papers in addition to a memoir. Very insightful stuff.
Fabulous interview. I actually didn't recognize the name but was familiar with some of his research, like the piece about racial bias in police shootings.
Googled him, and he was suspended from Harvard in 2019 by.... Claudine Gay (a dean at the time), over sexual harassment claims. I can't help but suspect it was just retribution by Gay who had "sole discretion over Mr. Fryer’s punishment" (NYT), over his viewpoints, at the height of "Me Too".
You would be correct. Heres a link to the story: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=m8xWOlk3WIw
Such an enjoyable interview to listen to. Roland Fryer is a mensch.