Exactly. Sure there will be some doubters, but the great manufactured consensus will be that Israel will now have a blank check to do whatever they want over there -- which will be: kill thousands of Palestinians and steal their land.
Exactly. Sure there will be some doubters, but the great manufactured consensus will be that Israel will now have a blank check to do whatever they want over there -- which will be: kill thousands of Palestinians and steal their land.
Oh yeah. My sympathy for the dispossessed Palestinians does not moderate my opinion of Hamas -- medieval barbarians to be sure. Kill them all. Alas, it's mostly the innocent who will die.
So say the Jews who are bombing them. But if you ask an actual Gazan, even now, most of them wish for an end to living in the world's biggest open air prison. They just want to be normal people living in a normal country. Most people are like that, you know -- most people just want to be normal people, they have to be *driven* mad. And yes, they have been driven mad and yes they yearn for dead Jews -- but it doesn't have to be that way. I'd probably be a mad dog if I had lived my whole life under occupation too and I'd probably want to kill every last member of the people occupying me.
Also this is a crazy comment from beginning to end. It is like you just heard of these places yesterday and you just stopped by to let us know how little you understand. Please stop.
Nope, I won't. The reason all this interests me is, firstly I'm half Jewish and secondly because my dad was there at the time of the formation of Israel -- he saw first hand what went down, and that formed my view of the thing.
You wonтАЩt stop letting us know how shallow your views are? Shocker. The reason this interests you is because you are half Jewish? ItтАЩs even more embarrassing you know so little about your own cultural heritage. But because you think you can relate this latest pogrom to yourself, however tenuously, now youтАЩre going to read a few articles, just enough to engage in some of the moral relativism the author laments? Great.
What I suspected. Not of great importance to the immediate discussion, however, the question, "What is a Jew?" will engender lively discussion even amongst some -- if not many -- Jews. But it's rather large in the ongoing unpleasantness.
There are not a few Jews who believe as I do that Holy Land cannot be stolen and that Jews, of all people, should know that treating another people as lesser is wrong. That one is Jewish is no more a guarantee that one is a Zionist that being German in 1940 is a guarantee that one is a Nazi. But the irony is that I AM a Zionist, but I think that it should be done legally, not by theft. I honestly believe it would be cheaper in the long run.
The Palestinians were displaced by the Arab states long before Israel came back to claim the Promised Land. The Palestinians have always had a choice to be part of Israel and live in peace or choose Hamas and war with Israel. They have made their chose clear in how they chose their leadership of the last decades. Even still Israel reaches out to peruse peace. This is what happens when Israel lets their gaurd down.
Sure, Israel wants peace. Negotiate and expropriate might be what they'd prefer -- the slow, 'peaceful' dispossession of the Palestinians. But it's a funny thing about Semites, isn't it -- they can't forget. The Jews can't forget and the Palestinians can't forget either. Nope, Israel postures that they want peace and maybe some of them do, but they manufacture war because war lets them steal land faster.
preposterous assumption -- Compare Israel to any nation around them, they bring prosperity, education to the people. I had a friend long past who help build Israel in the early days. The dream was to have a place where all could live in harmony. Israel is not a religious state it is a free democratic state where everyone can enjoy what they built in the middle of the desert. It has no oil but it is rich because of the innovation and hard work of the settlers. Israel has historically taken land only to assure its peace and every time they give it back the enemy of freedom use it to launch assaults. Palestinians continue to choose war over peace. Now they should pay the price.
Certainly. Unfortunately they also bring apartheid and at the end of the day their occupation of Palestine is illegal by every standard of law.
"where all could live in harmony"
Except the Palestinians who were driven out. Would you like to be honest about that or will it be the same old lies over and over again?
"Israel is not a religious state"
But it calls itself 'The Jewish state' does it not? Hard to have this both ways at the same time.
"Israel has historically taken land only to assure its peace and every time they give it back"
So all the illegal settlements are going to be removed then? That's really good news.
"Palestinians continue to choose war over peace. Now they should pay the price. "
Just a few minutes ago I listened to an interview with a Palestinian leader -- he said that all the Palestinians want is an end to the occupation. Period. They acknowledge Israel's right to exist, they want mutual respect. Were Israel to withdraw to its legal borders they would have nothing to gain by making more trouble. It would be in there interest to cooperate in every way. And it would, wouldn't it?
So, the history of this part of the world did not begin in 1948 and it is way more complex than you are allowing. Secondly, not all Jewish people are Orthodox, not even in Israel. There are Haredi, Dati, Masorti, Hiloni, ranging from ultra Orthodox to secular. Hilonim (tending to be secular) make up the largest Jewish group in Israel. Basically the majority of Jews living in Israel regard their Jewishness as an ancestral, cultural heritage rather than a religion. Maybe you could do a little more homework on this region and its people before you speak with such confidence. There is no shortage of material, literally thousands of years worth. Shalom.
"So, the history of this part of the world did not begin in 1948"
Did I say that? Yes, complex and going back to the stone age. Interesting tho, even secular Jewish atheists will attempt the argument that God gave the land to them ergo they can disposes the Palestinians if they want to.
I can see that nothing will stop you from displaying your ignorance of the Jewish tradition, religion, and position in Israel, even as you claim Jewish ancestry. By all means, carry on, but as I said, if your interest truly is kindled beyond the shallow tropes you are grasping at today, there is an absolutely enormous wealth of resources available for study. Shalom.
Insults aren't really arguments. I'd like someone to explain to me why we should continue down the same road that has lead us to the current situation. I suggest a change of tactics. I quite understand that most people will stick with what they know of course but there's a wealth of resources available to those who are willing to open their minds to different approaches. Not you of course.
They take our children as hostages, parading women down the street as Gaza to cheers. They don't want the end of occupation, they want the end of Israel. You may dear friend are living a fantasy if you believe Hamas would allow a Jewish state.
I detest Hamas, they are Islamic barbarians. However they are far from the majority of Palestinians and even they are only in power because the Gazans have been so brutalized that they turn to brutes to give them revenge even if not justice. What sane people *wants* to be ruled by medieval theocratic thugs? Did you ever see the documentary 'Checkpoint'? If not, do. A few Israeli soldiers even admit that their orders are to drive the Palestinians insane -- they have succeeded -- they are insane mad dogs, just as the Israelis want.
Exactly. Sure there will be some doubters, but the great manufactured consensus will be that Israel will now have a blank check to do whatever they want over there -- which will be: kill thousands of Palestinians and steal their land.
If you take women and children hostages as your war plan, you cannot expect restraint for which you have no respect.
Oh yeah. My sympathy for the dispossessed Palestinians does not moderate my opinion of Hamas -- medieval barbarians to be sure. Kill them all. Alas, it's mostly the innocent who will die.
If only the poor people of Gaza yearned for peace with Israel. They do not. They yearn for dead Jews.
So say the Jews who are bombing them. But if you ask an actual Gazan, even now, most of them wish for an end to living in the world's biggest open air prison. They just want to be normal people living in a normal country. Most people are like that, you know -- most people just want to be normal people, they have to be *driven* mad. And yes, they have been driven mad and yes they yearn for dead Jews -- but it doesn't have to be that way. I'd probably be a mad dog if I had lived my whole life under occupation too and I'd probably want to kill every last member of the people occupying me.
Also this is a crazy comment from beginning to end. It is like you just heard of these places yesterday and you just stopped by to let us know how little you understand. Please stop.
Nope, I won't. The reason all this interests me is, firstly I'm half Jewish and secondly because my dad was there at the time of the formation of Israel -- he saw first hand what went down, and that formed my view of the thing.
You wonтАЩt stop letting us know how shallow your views are? Shocker. The reason this interests you is because you are half Jewish? ItтАЩs even more embarrassing you know so little about your own cultural heritage. But because you think you can relate this latest pogrom to yourself, however tenuously, now youтАЩre going to read a few articles, just enough to engage in some of the moral relativism the author laments? Great.
How is one half Jewish? Isn't that kinda like half pregnant?
Is it? My dad is Jewish, my mom is gentile.
What I suspected. Not of great importance to the immediate discussion, however, the question, "What is a Jew?" will engender lively discussion even amongst some -- if not many -- Jews. But it's rather large in the ongoing unpleasantness.
There are not a few Jews who believe as I do that Holy Land cannot be stolen and that Jews, of all people, should know that treating another people as lesser is wrong. That one is Jewish is no more a guarantee that one is a Zionist that being German in 1940 is a guarantee that one is a Nazi. But the irony is that I AM a Zionist, but I think that it should be done legally, not by theft. I honestly believe it would be cheaper in the long run.
The Palestinians were displaced by the Arab states long before Israel came back to claim the Promised Land. The Palestinians have always had a choice to be part of Israel and live in peace or choose Hamas and war with Israel. They have made their chose clear in how they chose their leadership of the last decades. Even still Israel reaches out to peruse peace. This is what happens when Israel lets their gaurd down.
Sure, Israel wants peace. Negotiate and expropriate might be what they'd prefer -- the slow, 'peaceful' dispossession of the Palestinians. But it's a funny thing about Semites, isn't it -- they can't forget. The Jews can't forget and the Palestinians can't forget either. Nope, Israel postures that they want peace and maybe some of them do, but they manufacture war because war lets them steal land faster.
preposterous assumption -- Compare Israel to any nation around them, they bring prosperity, education to the people. I had a friend long past who help build Israel in the early days. The dream was to have a place where all could live in harmony. Israel is not a religious state it is a free democratic state where everyone can enjoy what they built in the middle of the desert. It has no oil but it is rich because of the innovation and hard work of the settlers. Israel has historically taken land only to assure its peace and every time they give it back the enemy of freedom use it to launch assaults. Palestinians continue to choose war over peace. Now they should pay the price.
"they bring prosperity"
Certainly. Unfortunately they also bring apartheid and at the end of the day their occupation of Palestine is illegal by every standard of law.
"where all could live in harmony"
Except the Palestinians who were driven out. Would you like to be honest about that or will it be the same old lies over and over again?
"Israel is not a religious state"
But it calls itself 'The Jewish state' does it not? Hard to have this both ways at the same time.
"Israel has historically taken land only to assure its peace and every time they give it back"
So all the illegal settlements are going to be removed then? That's really good news.
"Palestinians continue to choose war over peace. Now they should pay the price. "
Just a few minutes ago I listened to an interview with a Palestinian leader -- he said that all the Palestinians want is an end to the occupation. Period. They acknowledge Israel's right to exist, they want mutual respect. Were Israel to withdraw to its legal borders they would have nothing to gain by making more trouble. It would be in there interest to cooperate in every way. And it would, wouldn't it?
So, the history of this part of the world did not begin in 1948 and it is way more complex than you are allowing. Secondly, not all Jewish people are Orthodox, not even in Israel. There are Haredi, Dati, Masorti, Hiloni, ranging from ultra Orthodox to secular. Hilonim (tending to be secular) make up the largest Jewish group in Israel. Basically the majority of Jews living in Israel regard their Jewishness as an ancestral, cultural heritage rather than a religion. Maybe you could do a little more homework on this region and its people before you speak with such confidence. There is no shortage of material, literally thousands of years worth. Shalom.
"So, the history of this part of the world did not begin in 1948"
Did I say that? Yes, complex and going back to the stone age. Interesting tho, even secular Jewish atheists will attempt the argument that God gave the land to them ergo they can disposes the Palestinians if they want to.
I can see that nothing will stop you from displaying your ignorance of the Jewish tradition, religion, and position in Israel, even as you claim Jewish ancestry. By all means, carry on, but as I said, if your interest truly is kindled beyond the shallow tropes you are grasping at today, there is an absolutely enormous wealth of resources available for study. Shalom.
Insults aren't really arguments. I'd like someone to explain to me why we should continue down the same road that has lead us to the current situation. I suggest a change of tactics. I quite understand that most people will stick with what they know of course but there's a wealth of resources available to those who are willing to open their minds to different approaches. Not you of course.
They take our children as hostages, parading women down the street as Gaza to cheers. They don't want the end of occupation, they want the end of Israel. You may dear friend are living a fantasy if you believe Hamas would allow a Jewish state.
I detest Hamas, they are Islamic barbarians. However they are far from the majority of Palestinians and even they are only in power because the Gazans have been so brutalized that they turn to brutes to give them revenge even if not justice. What sane people *wants* to be ruled by medieval theocratic thugs? Did you ever see the documentary 'Checkpoint'? If not, do. A few Israeli soldiers even admit that their orders are to drive the Palestinians insane -- they have succeeded -- they are insane mad dogs, just as the Israelis want.