"Unfortunately, some people watching the footage of Israeli women dragged out of their homes and children lying slaughtered on the floors, are engaging in a spot of moral relativism, trying to see this terror from “both sides.” Others are arguing we should view this attack “in context,” as though there can be …
"Unfortunately, some people watching the footage of Israeli women dragged out of their homes and children lying slaughtered on the floors, are engaging in a spot of moral relativism, trying to see this terror from “both sides.” Others are arguing we should view this attack “in context,” as though there can be any context for what happened in places like Sderot yesterday. Still, those are the nobler reactions. Iran rejoiced over the massacre with fireworks. In London, some have been seen celebrating the attacks, waving Palestinian flags and blasting car horns.
Because, of course, Israel is the only country in the world that gets criticized when its citizens are butchered."
Thank you for calling out the depravity of these minds.
"We brought this on ourselves". --- "we" as in we Americans reflecting and criticizing ourselves?
Douglas Murray is talking about the rest of the world, including morons in London and US criticizing Israel. Not Israelis reflecting and criticizing themselves. You're comparing apples and oranges here.
What I remember post 9/11 is the world coming around behind USA. I remember Facebook profiles of people from numerous countries around the world putting aside all their complaints about America and the global outpour of sympathy. Even Putin and his Russia, if you want to remember, and China, gave us their express sympathy and condemnations against the 9/11 attack. The only ones celebrating were Osama bin Laden and the Talibans, and fractions of political agitators in the Middle East.
In contrast, what were we seeing yesterday? Lots of Western liberals, even on here in TFP comments, hell bent on criticizing Israel even as innocent Israelis are being slaughtered and kidnapped. I'm ashamed of the behavior and lack of compassion at this moment on the part of these woefully misguided and callous left wing Americans.
Exactly. Sure there will be some doubters, but the great manufactured consensus will be that Israel will now have a blank check to do whatever they want over there -- which will be: kill thousands of Palestinians and steal their land.
Oh yeah. My sympathy for the dispossessed Palestinians does not moderate my opinion of Hamas -- medieval barbarians to be sure. Kill them all. Alas, it's mostly the innocent who will die.
So say the Jews who are bombing them. But if you ask an actual Gazan, even now, most of them wish for an end to living in the world's biggest open air prison. They just want to be normal people living in a normal country. Most people are like that, you know -- most people just want to be normal people, they have to be *driven* mad. And yes, they have been driven mad and yes they yearn for dead Jews -- but it doesn't have to be that way. I'd probably be a mad dog if I had lived my whole life under occupation too and I'd probably want to kill every last member of the people occupying me.
Also this is a crazy comment from beginning to end. It is like you just heard of these places yesterday and you just stopped by to let us know how little you understand. Please stop.
Nope, I won't. The reason all this interests me is, firstly I'm half Jewish and secondly because my dad was there at the time of the formation of Israel -- he saw first hand what went down, and that formed my view of the thing.
You won’t stop letting us know how shallow your views are? Shocker. The reason this interests you is because you are half Jewish? It’s even more embarrassing you know so little about your own cultural heritage. But because you think you can relate this latest pogrom to yourself, however tenuously, now you’re going to read a few articles, just enough to engage in some of the moral relativism the author laments? Great.
The Palestinians were displaced by the Arab states long before Israel came back to claim the Promised Land. The Palestinians have always had a choice to be part of Israel and live in peace or choose Hamas and war with Israel. They have made their chose clear in how they chose their leadership of the last decades. Even still Israel reaches out to peruse peace. This is what happens when Israel lets their gaurd down.
Sure, Israel wants peace. Negotiate and expropriate might be what they'd prefer -- the slow, 'peaceful' dispossession of the Palestinians. But it's a funny thing about Semites, isn't it -- they can't forget. The Jews can't forget and the Palestinians can't forget either. Nope, Israel postures that they want peace and maybe some of them do, but they manufacture war because war lets them steal land faster.
preposterous assumption -- Compare Israel to any nation around them, they bring prosperity, education to the people. I had a friend long past who help build Israel in the early days. The dream was to have a place where all could live in harmony. Israel is not a religious state it is a free democratic state where everyone can enjoy what they built in the middle of the desert. It has no oil but it is rich because of the innovation and hard work of the settlers. Israel has historically taken land only to assure its peace and every time they give it back the enemy of freedom use it to launch assaults. Palestinians continue to choose war over peace. Now they should pay the price.
Certainly. Unfortunately they also bring apartheid and at the end of the day their occupation of Palestine is illegal by every standard of law.
"where all could live in harmony"
Except the Palestinians who were driven out. Would you like to be honest about that or will it be the same old lies over and over again?
"Israel is not a religious state"
But it calls itself 'The Jewish state' does it not? Hard to have this both ways at the same time.
"Israel has historically taken land only to assure its peace and every time they give it back"
So all the illegal settlements are going to be removed then? That's really good news.
"Palestinians continue to choose war over peace. Now they should pay the price. "
Just a few minutes ago I listened to an interview with a Palestinian leader -- he said that all the Palestinians want is an end to the occupation. Period. They acknowledge Israel's right to exist, they want mutual respect. Were Israel to withdraw to its legal borders they would have nothing to gain by making more trouble. It would be in there interest to cooperate in every way. And it would, wouldn't it?
So, the history of this part of the world did not begin in 1948 and it is way more complex than you are allowing. Secondly, not all Jewish people are Orthodox, not even in Israel. There are Haredi, Dati, Masorti, Hiloni, ranging from ultra Orthodox to secular. Hilonim (tending to be secular) make up the largest Jewish group in Israel. Basically the majority of Jews living in Israel regard their Jewishness as an ancestral, cultural heritage rather than a religion. Maybe you could do a little more homework on this region and its people before you speak with such confidence. There is no shortage of material, literally thousands of years worth. Shalom.
They take our children as hostages, parading women down the street as Gaza to cheers. They don't want the end of occupation, they want the end of Israel. You may dear friend are living a fantasy if you believe Hamas would allow a Jewish state.
Oh just give it up. Your cases are pathetically weak. You're bringing up people pointing out the faults of our government as if what they said are the equivalent to people honking cars and displaying fireworks in mad joy to celebrate innocent people being slaughtered, kidnapped, and raped.
Apples/oranges, all fruit! I did a bit of international travel shortly after 9/11, and I met people who literally cried to me empathizing over what NYC/US went through w/ the 9/11 attacks. I also met people who sneered and basically said "now you see what it's like for all who have suffered at your government's hands (directly and indirectly)!" Most of this was in relation to our support of Israel, but additional critiques were of our involvements in SE Asia, Central America etc.
Thank you Douglas, for this:
"Unfortunately, some people watching the footage of Israeli women dragged out of their homes and children lying slaughtered on the floors, are engaging in a spot of moral relativism, trying to see this terror from “both sides.” Others are arguing we should view this attack “in context,” as though there can be any context for what happened in places like Sderot yesterday. Still, those are the nobler reactions. Iran rejoiced over the massacre with fireworks. In London, some have been seen celebrating the attacks, waving Palestinian flags and blasting car horns.
Because, of course, Israel is the only country in the world that gets criticized when its citizens are butchered."
Thank you for calling out the depravity of these minds.
The Demonic Scumbags of Amerika are rallying at 1 pm in Times Square today to celebrate butchery and barbarity.
Keep in mind that DSA was the group that brought Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez and Rashida Tlaib to the fore......and instrumental in electing them.
Just saw this on the news. Sick but not surprising at all.
The USA was also criticized after 9/11. Remember "we brought this on ourselves"??
I was in grad school on 9/11, so I was surrounded by people saying that. In many ways, that forms the white-hot core of how I feel about Leftists.
Oh I remember 9/11 like yesterday.
"We brought this on ourselves". --- "we" as in we Americans reflecting and criticizing ourselves?
Douglas Murray is talking about the rest of the world, including morons in London and US criticizing Israel. Not Israelis reflecting and criticizing themselves. You're comparing apples and oranges here.
What I remember post 9/11 is the world coming around behind USA. I remember Facebook profiles of people from numerous countries around the world putting aside all their complaints about America and the global outpour of sympathy. Even Putin and his Russia, if you want to remember, and China, gave us their express sympathy and condemnations against the 9/11 attack. The only ones celebrating were Osama bin Laden and the Talibans, and fractions of political agitators in the Middle East.
In contrast, what were we seeing yesterday? Lots of Western liberals, even on here in TFP comments, hell bent on criticizing Israel even as innocent Israelis are being slaughtered and kidnapped. I'm ashamed of the behavior and lack of compassion at this moment on the part of these woefully misguided and callous left wing Americans.
Exactly. Sure there will be some doubters, but the great manufactured consensus will be that Israel will now have a blank check to do whatever they want over there -- which will be: kill thousands of Palestinians and steal their land.
If you take women and children hostages as your war plan, you cannot expect restraint for which you have no respect.
Oh yeah. My sympathy for the dispossessed Palestinians does not moderate my opinion of Hamas -- medieval barbarians to be sure. Kill them all. Alas, it's mostly the innocent who will die.
If only the poor people of Gaza yearned for peace with Israel. They do not. They yearn for dead Jews.
So say the Jews who are bombing them. But if you ask an actual Gazan, even now, most of them wish for an end to living in the world's biggest open air prison. They just want to be normal people living in a normal country. Most people are like that, you know -- most people just want to be normal people, they have to be *driven* mad. And yes, they have been driven mad and yes they yearn for dead Jews -- but it doesn't have to be that way. I'd probably be a mad dog if I had lived my whole life under occupation too and I'd probably want to kill every last member of the people occupying me.
Also this is a crazy comment from beginning to end. It is like you just heard of these places yesterday and you just stopped by to let us know how little you understand. Please stop.
Nope, I won't. The reason all this interests me is, firstly I'm half Jewish and secondly because my dad was there at the time of the formation of Israel -- he saw first hand what went down, and that formed my view of the thing.
You won’t stop letting us know how shallow your views are? Shocker. The reason this interests you is because you are half Jewish? It’s even more embarrassing you know so little about your own cultural heritage. But because you think you can relate this latest pogrom to yourself, however tenuously, now you’re going to read a few articles, just enough to engage in some of the moral relativism the author laments? Great.
How is one half Jewish? Isn't that kinda like half pregnant?
The Palestinians were displaced by the Arab states long before Israel came back to claim the Promised Land. The Palestinians have always had a choice to be part of Israel and live in peace or choose Hamas and war with Israel. They have made their chose clear in how they chose their leadership of the last decades. Even still Israel reaches out to peruse peace. This is what happens when Israel lets their gaurd down.
Sure, Israel wants peace. Negotiate and expropriate might be what they'd prefer -- the slow, 'peaceful' dispossession of the Palestinians. But it's a funny thing about Semites, isn't it -- they can't forget. The Jews can't forget and the Palestinians can't forget either. Nope, Israel postures that they want peace and maybe some of them do, but they manufacture war because war lets them steal land faster.
preposterous assumption -- Compare Israel to any nation around them, they bring prosperity, education to the people. I had a friend long past who help build Israel in the early days. The dream was to have a place where all could live in harmony. Israel is not a religious state it is a free democratic state where everyone can enjoy what they built in the middle of the desert. It has no oil but it is rich because of the innovation and hard work of the settlers. Israel has historically taken land only to assure its peace and every time they give it back the enemy of freedom use it to launch assaults. Palestinians continue to choose war over peace. Now they should pay the price.
"they bring prosperity"
Certainly. Unfortunately they also bring apartheid and at the end of the day their occupation of Palestine is illegal by every standard of law.
"where all could live in harmony"
Except the Palestinians who were driven out. Would you like to be honest about that or will it be the same old lies over and over again?
"Israel is not a religious state"
But it calls itself 'The Jewish state' does it not? Hard to have this both ways at the same time.
"Israel has historically taken land only to assure its peace and every time they give it back"
So all the illegal settlements are going to be removed then? That's really good news.
"Palestinians continue to choose war over peace. Now they should pay the price. "
Just a few minutes ago I listened to an interview with a Palestinian leader -- he said that all the Palestinians want is an end to the occupation. Period. They acknowledge Israel's right to exist, they want mutual respect. Were Israel to withdraw to its legal borders they would have nothing to gain by making more trouble. It would be in there interest to cooperate in every way. And it would, wouldn't it?
So, the history of this part of the world did not begin in 1948 and it is way more complex than you are allowing. Secondly, not all Jewish people are Orthodox, not even in Israel. There are Haredi, Dati, Masorti, Hiloni, ranging from ultra Orthodox to secular. Hilonim (tending to be secular) make up the largest Jewish group in Israel. Basically the majority of Jews living in Israel regard their Jewishness as an ancestral, cultural heritage rather than a religion. Maybe you could do a little more homework on this region and its people before you speak with such confidence. There is no shortage of material, literally thousands of years worth. Shalom.
They take our children as hostages, parading women down the street as Gaza to cheers. They don't want the end of occupation, they want the end of Israel. You may dear friend are living a fantasy if you believe Hamas would allow a Jewish state.
Oh just give it up. Your cases are pathetically weak. You're bringing up people pointing out the faults of our government as if what they said are the equivalent to people honking cars and displaying fireworks in mad joy to celebrate innocent people being slaughtered, kidnapped, and raped.
No, he is saying the opposite -- that they are not equivalent. Read more carefully.
Apples/oranges, all fruit! I did a bit of international travel shortly after 9/11, and I met people who literally cried to me empathizing over what NYC/US went through w/ the 9/11 attacks. I also met people who sneered and basically said "now you see what it's like for all who have suffered at your government's hands (directly and indirectly)!" Most of this was in relation to our support of Israel, but additional critiques were of our involvements in SE Asia, Central America etc.