Many of the people who argued vehemently against giving men the benefit of the doubt during MeToo now expect women to shrug off menacing men on the subway.
Thank you for writing this article, I think when I was a kid and the buzz line was " A women needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle." Even back then it struck me "Pushing others down to lift yourself up. We will look back at the METOO movement, with embarrassment.
Kudos for writing a mostly balanced piece, however "malicious glee from the Right nor the aggressive minimization from the Left" paints the Right in a harsher light. "Aggressive minimization" is just too light a brush.
Imagine what this does to parents, fathers of daughters in particular. Imagine what happens if you actually took your daughter's cell phone away and scolded her, and she decides to file a PFA. Imagine if you parent your daughter like she was your son. It is too dangerous to scold daughters; so it is best if you don't. And girls, whose fathers' now justifiably fear their daughters, are killing themselves for lack of fathering. Never say no to your daughter if you are her father. If you doubt me simply look at the explosion of false PFA's filed against parents by their children and the new industry of court appointed therapists making a fortune on this socially induced frailty of children.
It takes a lot of empty words to try to walk both sides of the fence. Bottom line, would Rosenfield feel safer on a subway with Penny sitting next to her? Yes?; and why is that?
More of the rank and craven hypocrisy of the Left on display. MeToo died with George Floyd unless you didn't get the memo.
I lived in New York for several years during the Giuliani era, and while the subway had its share of unsavory weirdos and panhandlers, I never felt physically unsafe, even riding very late at night.
This article reminds me of an experience I had a few years back when I lived in Chicago. A female companion and I were waiting at a bus stop in the Gold Coast, a very upscale area of the city. We were approached by a young and clearly very inebriated white guy, who started harassing and saying suggestive things to us. He was very aggressive and even began chasing my companion around, making her run to get away from him. It was a scary episode, and ended only because the bus mercifully arrived. When I later recounted the incident to a group of women in our social circle, instead of expressing sympathy for me and my friend and the fear we felt, they made excuses for the guy. He must be unwell, he was having an episode, the poor thing! I was like, no, he was DRUNK. You can tell the difference between mentally ill and drunk. Meaning that he made a conscious choice to drink himself to the point that his behavior became aggressive and unsafe. This was met with silence from the group. The mentality was that this sort of thing ought to be tolerated. That nothing is anybody's fault.
One of the many reasons why I fled liberal Chicago not long after and never looked back.
A price must be paid for Jordan Neely’s death. Unfortunately we remain unprepared to pay it. Since 1974 when a bipartisan decision was made to empty the state psychiatric facilities, large campuses, the equivalent of small towns stand vacant. We’ve learned a great deal since 1974. We have many more and effective psychotropic medications than the three we had then. Academic disciplines have focused and documented effective methodologies in the treatment of psychoses as well as the dynamics of community including architectural space. In other words, we could resuscitate these campuses, design them for their new purpose, house and support people with reference to their ability to function, and overall create a sustaining environment for people living precarious lives on the street. But, of course, this would be very expensive; much to great a price to ransom Jordan Neely.
There is a 1979 court decision that compels the city to provide adequate shelter for its homeless population. If we were to be overheard in 1978 discussing the plight of the homeless, whoever was listening would think we were delusional. The homeless population, despite the 1974 expulsion from state “homes” was negligible. It took Reagan’s diversion of money designated for public housing to commercial real estate and the beginnings of gentrification of Manhattan to accomplish this. Prior to gentrification, we had SRO (single room occupancy) welfare hotels with social and psychiatric services in the lobby for those willing to involve themselves. But we don't want those people living in immediate proximity to luxury high rises and we don't want to restore that housing elsewhere. Too high a price to pay for Jordan Neely’s life.
So,some kid on the subway where Jordan Neely was psychotically threatening people, is going to pay for his “heroic moment of rescue.” Two lives wasted, and we can assume the young ex-marine was not affluent; affluent people don’t become enlistees in the Marine Corps. Marines, by the way, are shock troops; they’re not regular Army, more on the continuum of Rangers, Special Forces, and Seals. The latter being so exquisitely trained in killing, that they are housed in segregated facilities at Mannheim military base in Germany, in case things get volatile. So we can thank Penny for his service, a service we trained him for, that he misapplied by taking things too far. Neely shouldn’t be dead; he should have been rescued long ago, but we wouldn’t pay the price. Penny will.
A passenger on the train, Juan Alberto Vazquez, said Neely complained about being “fed up and hungry,” according to CNN. Neely also said he was “tired of having nothing” and that “I don’t care if I die. I don’t care if I go to jail. I don’t have any food … I’m done,” according to Vazquez. He said no passengers were attacked by Neely before he was restrained and put in a deadly chokehold, according to NPR.
Mr. Penny will not get a fair trial. It's tragic to see New York digress and governed with a disturbing lack of imagination. All of America should be outraged that this once great city that achieved excellence in everything FAILED in protecting its culture. It failed in demanding that newcomers assimilate, to take on, at least in public its culture that was uniquely New York. Mr. Penny will not receive due process as should be demanded in America because New York is run by an illiberal un-American mob.
BW - I think you're making a terrific mistake when you characterize this, AT THIS POINT, as Neely "...was choked to death." I don't believe an autopsy has confirmed that at all. It seems to me the media has been too quick to interpret a chokehold as deadly by default, but of course, it's not at all. Pretty much every professional MMA fighter has been in a chokehold many, many times. Even passing out from being put in a chokehold isn't a death sentence; far from it.
So unless and until the autopsy says he died from asphyxiation, I think it's journalistic malpractice to characterize it as 'choked to death.'
This column seems timely with the reports and stories around the healthcare working trying to rent a Citibike and being harassed by 5 young males. The 5 men made aggressive behavior toward the girl (who is supposedly visibly pregnant). They surrounded her and aggressively shouted at her to the point that she was shaking and crying after working a 12-hour shift. But the girl was mocked online, has been suspended from work and called a racist. Let this be a lesson to anyone who subscribed to the #metoo movement... it was never about protecting women.
The "benefit of the doubt" belongs to the accused only, regardless of its gender, social standing, color of skin or any other feature. It's the accuser who has to prove his accusation and not the accused his innocence. That's a very important part of justice and we should not give it up.
This is a great piece. Kat is a brilliant writer but in this case I really am annoyed by the "both sides" thing. This is not a "both sides" issue. This is hypocrisy plain and simple -- that exists on the Left. The Right is consistent in its view that if law enforcement fails it's up to the citizenry. This has been true for at least as long as there has been a Conservative movement. In fact, it's an American thing mostly. It's just not a New York thing. Had Neely not died Penny would have been hailed a hero.
I remember a similar video of a bunch of people on a subway sitting there and allowing horrible harassment -- the Twitter commenters (on the Right) kept saying "do something"! I imagine that Penny believed he had the skills to do something and that it would have been shameful for him to sit there and do nothing. It was a tragedy, no doubt, and it was not his job to keep the riders safe but he did not mean to kill Neely. He did what he did in an effort not to kill him but unfortunately he didn't realize how fragile of a situation it really was.
Thanks. I read Rosenfield’s article last week. I am OK with normal people having cuckoo ideas about crime, safety and vulnerability; but not directors and elected officials. On Coopers in Central Park 2000 (bird-man vs. dog-woman); I was frustrated that media and on-line discussion failed to acknowledge vulnerability of female in the presence of physically stronger male + vulnerability of male in presence of female during “Me-Too”. NYC Mayor Adams acknowledges that crime and safety are a problem. But, other mayors refuse to acknowledge their citizenry is unsafe. Those mayors are not mentally fit snd need to resign immediately.
Thank you for writing this article, I think when I was a kid and the buzz line was " A women needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle." Even back then it struck me "Pushing others down to lift yourself up. We will look back at the METOO movement, with embarrassment.
Kudos for writing a mostly balanced piece, however "malicious glee from the Right nor the aggressive minimization from the Left" paints the Right in a harsher light. "Aggressive minimization" is just too light a brush.
Imagine what this does to parents, fathers of daughters in particular. Imagine what happens if you actually took your daughter's cell phone away and scolded her, and she decides to file a PFA. Imagine if you parent your daughter like she was your son. It is too dangerous to scold daughters; so it is best if you don't. And girls, whose fathers' now justifiably fear their daughters, are killing themselves for lack of fathering. Never say no to your daughter if you are her father. If you doubt me simply look at the explosion of false PFA's filed against parents by their children and the new industry of court appointed therapists making a fortune on this socially induced frailty of children.
If Penny has simply restrained Neely, and been arrested, I would feel outraged. But when someone dies, you have to have a trial.
It takes a lot of empty words to try to walk both sides of the fence. Bottom line, would Rosenfield feel safer on a subway with Penny sitting next to her? Yes?; and why is that?
More of the rank and craven hypocrisy of the Left on display. MeToo died with George Floyd unless you didn't get the memo.
I lived in New York for several years during the Giuliani era, and while the subway had its share of unsavory weirdos and panhandlers, I never felt physically unsafe, even riding very late at night.
This article reminds me of an experience I had a few years back when I lived in Chicago. A female companion and I were waiting at a bus stop in the Gold Coast, a very upscale area of the city. We were approached by a young and clearly very inebriated white guy, who started harassing and saying suggestive things to us. He was very aggressive and even began chasing my companion around, making her run to get away from him. It was a scary episode, and ended only because the bus mercifully arrived. When I later recounted the incident to a group of women in our social circle, instead of expressing sympathy for me and my friend and the fear we felt, they made excuses for the guy. He must be unwell, he was having an episode, the poor thing! I was like, no, he was DRUNK. You can tell the difference between mentally ill and drunk. Meaning that he made a conscious choice to drink himself to the point that his behavior became aggressive and unsafe. This was met with silence from the group. The mentality was that this sort of thing ought to be tolerated. That nothing is anybody's fault.
One of the many reasons why I fled liberal Chicago not long after and never looked back.
A price must be paid for Jordan Neely’s death. Unfortunately we remain unprepared to pay it. Since 1974 when a bipartisan decision was made to empty the state psychiatric facilities, large campuses, the equivalent of small towns stand vacant. We’ve learned a great deal since 1974. We have many more and effective psychotropic medications than the three we had then. Academic disciplines have focused and documented effective methodologies in the treatment of psychoses as well as the dynamics of community including architectural space. In other words, we could resuscitate these campuses, design them for their new purpose, house and support people with reference to their ability to function, and overall create a sustaining environment for people living precarious lives on the street. But, of course, this would be very expensive; much to great a price to ransom Jordan Neely.
There is a 1979 court decision that compels the city to provide adequate shelter for its homeless population. If we were to be overheard in 1978 discussing the plight of the homeless, whoever was listening would think we were delusional. The homeless population, despite the 1974 expulsion from state “homes” was negligible. It took Reagan’s diversion of money designated for public housing to commercial real estate and the beginnings of gentrification of Manhattan to accomplish this. Prior to gentrification, we had SRO (single room occupancy) welfare hotels with social and psychiatric services in the lobby for those willing to involve themselves. But we don't want those people living in immediate proximity to luxury high rises and we don't want to restore that housing elsewhere. Too high a price to pay for Jordan Neely’s life.
So,some kid on the subway where Jordan Neely was psychotically threatening people, is going to pay for his “heroic moment of rescue.” Two lives wasted, and we can assume the young ex-marine was not affluent; affluent people don’t become enlistees in the Marine Corps. Marines, by the way, are shock troops; they’re not regular Army, more on the continuum of Rangers, Special Forces, and Seals. The latter being so exquisitely trained in killing, that they are housed in segregated facilities at Mannheim military base in Germany, in case things get volatile. So we can thank Penny for his service, a service we trained him for, that he misapplied by taking things too far. Neely shouldn’t be dead; he should have been rescued long ago, but we wouldn’t pay the price. Penny will.
A passenger on the train, Juan Alberto Vazquez, said Neely complained about being “fed up and hungry,” according to CNN. Neely also said he was “tired of having nothing” and that “I don’t care if I die. I don’t care if I go to jail. I don’t have any food … I’m done,” according to Vazquez. He said no passengers were attacked by Neely before he was restrained and put in a deadly chokehold, according to NPR.
Mr. Penny will not get a fair trial. It's tragic to see New York digress and governed with a disturbing lack of imagination. All of America should be outraged that this once great city that achieved excellence in everything FAILED in protecting its culture. It failed in demanding that newcomers assimilate, to take on, at least in public its culture that was uniquely New York. Mr. Penny will not receive due process as should be demanded in America because New York is run by an illiberal un-American mob.
BW - I think you're making a terrific mistake when you characterize this, AT THIS POINT, as Neely "...was choked to death." I don't believe an autopsy has confirmed that at all. It seems to me the media has been too quick to interpret a chokehold as deadly by default, but of course, it's not at all. Pretty much every professional MMA fighter has been in a chokehold many, many times. Even passing out from being put in a chokehold isn't a death sentence; far from it.
So unless and until the autopsy says he died from asphyxiation, I think it's journalistic malpractice to characterize it as 'choked to death.'
This column seems timely with the reports and stories around the healthcare working trying to rent a Citibike and being harassed by 5 young males. The 5 men made aggressive behavior toward the girl (who is supposedly visibly pregnant). They surrounded her and aggressively shouted at her to the point that she was shaking and crying after working a 12-hour shift. But the girl was mocked online, has been suspended from work and called a racist. Let this be a lesson to anyone who subscribed to the #metoo movement... it was never about protecting women.
Beautifully written.
Elizabeth Spiers has lost all credibility.
The "benefit of the doubt" belongs to the accused only, regardless of its gender, social standing, color of skin or any other feature. It's the accuser who has to prove his accusation and not the accused his innocence. That's a very important part of justice and we should not give it up.
This is a great piece. Kat is a brilliant writer but in this case I really am annoyed by the "both sides" thing. This is not a "both sides" issue. This is hypocrisy plain and simple -- that exists on the Left. The Right is consistent in its view that if law enforcement fails it's up to the citizenry. This has been true for at least as long as there has been a Conservative movement. In fact, it's an American thing mostly. It's just not a New York thing. Had Neely not died Penny would have been hailed a hero.
I remember a similar video of a bunch of people on a subway sitting there and allowing horrible harassment -- the Twitter commenters (on the Right) kept saying "do something"! I imagine that Penny believed he had the skills to do something and that it would have been shameful for him to sit there and do nothing. It was a tragedy, no doubt, and it was not his job to keep the riders safe but he did not mean to kill Neely. He did what he did in an effort not to kill him but unfortunately he didn't realize how fragile of a situation it really was.
Thanks. I read Rosenfield’s article last week. I am OK with normal people having cuckoo ideas about crime, safety and vulnerability; but not directors and elected officials. On Coopers in Central Park 2000 (bird-man vs. dog-woman); I was frustrated that media and on-line discussion failed to acknowledge vulnerability of female in the presence of physically stronger male + vulnerability of male in presence of female during “Me-Too”. NYC Mayor Adams acknowledges that crime and safety are a problem. But, other mayors refuse to acknowledge their citizenry is unsafe. Those mayors are not mentally fit snd need to resign immediately.