If you haven’t heard of Bryan Johnson or watched the new Netflix documentary about him, Don’t Die: The Man Who Wants to Live Forever, Bryan is a person who has given his life—and his body—over to the science of longevity. That means that he has essentially turned himself into a human lab rat, undergoing hundreds of tests and studies on every human marker imaginable in order to discover the best ways to stop the process of human aging.
What he’s found is unconventional to say the least: He eats dinner at 11 a.m., he has swapped blood with his 17-year-old son, and he measures his nighttime erection lengths—just to name a few of the hundreds of things that you probably have never heard of a person doing in the name of health and longevity.
But it’s not just that Bryan wants to reverse aging and live forever. He also thinks we’re at the bleeding edge of a new kind of reality. He believes he’s akin to Amelia Earhart or Ernest Shackleton, and that he’s on the frontier of something big—something that will change everything about humanity as we know it.
In that way, this conversation is not just about wacky exercise routines and unusual supplements. It’s a philosophical discussion about the meaning and purpose of life, and what we’re all doing here on this planet.
Listen to the podcast here, watch the video, or scroll below for an edited transcript.
On how Bryan Johnson structures his entire life around not dying:
BARI WEISS: Why are you trying so hard not to die?
BRYAN JOHNSON: Don’t Die is actually the oldest and most-played game of human history. If you think about most religions, they’re selling a version of Don’t Die. It’s do these things. Don’t die. In the professional world, it’s achieve accomplishments, so you’re not forgotten. You have kids so you can pass on your lineage. “Don’t die” is the most fundamental of all human desires. What I’m suggesting is right now may be the first time that legitimate Don’t Die is here. Whereas before we’ve had to make up stories, now it’s technically, potentially possible.
What I’ve done as a project is I’ve said: Can I slow down my speed of aging to the greatest extent of any human on the planet? And can I then eliminate all the sources of death? Can I become the most Don’t-Die person in human history?
BW: Let’s establish for people just how differently you live your life in terms of diet, exercise, sleep. How many pills and supplements would you say you take every single day?
BJ: Around 50. These things are meticulously measured in my body, and we determine which things are actually slowing down my speed of aging. So they’re not random. This is on the cutting edge of science and technology of how you actually isolate what is causing death in the body and how you neutralize it.
BW: The way you eat might be the hardest thing for people to fathom. Most people eat three meals a day plus a few snacks. What do you eat? We’re talking at 12:30 Eastern Time, and you’ve already had your dinner, as I understand it.
BJ: Yes, I’ve already had my last meal of the day, and the reason I do that is I’ve built my life around sleep. My last meal of the day I usually have about nine hours before bedtime. And I do that because my body then finishes digestion, and it will lower my resting heart rate. And so if my resting heart rate is around 44 beats per minute when I go to bed, I’m going to have a perfect night’s sleep.
With sleep, I wanted to demonstrate something that no one had ever done: I wanted to have the world’s best sleep score. So I did eight months of perfect sleep with a wearable. And so I systematically went about doing hundreds of experiments to find out: What produces perfect sleep? And I had eight months of perfect sleep. (For context, there are millions of people who have these wearables who haven’t had a 100 percent score in their entire life.)
But in terms of food, we had this idea that every calorie that enters my body has to fight for its life. And so we went through all the medical literature, and we said, “What are the superfoods among superfoods?” And then we didn’t stop there. We began testing every food source. And we would look at the nutritional label and say, “Is it accurate?” We tested for heavy metals. We tested for pesticides and herbicides, and we found out that the global food-supply chain is atrociously contaminated. And so then we started sourcing our own foods, doing our own tests with our own labs. And so basically, every calorie fights for its life. It’s superfoods, and everything is sourced and tested.
BW: So you eat all of your meals between 6 a.m. and 11 a.m?
BJ: Yes.
BW: What are the foods that you eat and don’t eat?
BJ: My morning breakfast is a dish called Super Veggie, and it’s broccoli, cauliflower, black lentils, ginger, garlic, and hemp seeds. The second meal is called Nutty Pudding, and it’s macadamia nuts, walnuts, flaxseed, sunflower, lecithin, blueberries, raspberries, blackberries, pea protein, and some collagen. And then the final meal of the day is some combination of vegetables, legumes, berries, nuts, seeds. So I’m plant-based. I vary them day to day, but they’re roughly in the same categories. I get around 30 grams of plant fiber per day. The typical American gets less than 10. I don’t eat any sugar. I don’t eat any junk food. And then I have a lot of extra-virgin olive oil. I have three tablespoons per day of high quality, extra-virgin olive oil.
BW: That seems like a very ascetic meal plan for someone that’s exercising the amount you do and a man of your size. Are you hungry most of the time?
BJ: I’m typically in a light state of hunger.
BW: Is that painful or pleasurable to you?
BJ: Initially, it was uncomfortable. But I’ve really grown to appreciate it. Being satiated is nice, but the slight hunger is really nice. I feel more alert. My energy has boosted. We all know what it feels like after a phenomenal night’s sleep, after exercising really well—like you just feel lucid and clear and energetic and all the amazing things about consciousness. And that’s what I feel all the time. And so my mood is stable and robust. I don’t get really beaten down. There’s just so many benefits to this way of living.
BW: I want to list some of the other things you do that don’t fit neatly into the buckets of diet, exercise, or sleep: You do hair growth therapy, red light therapy, audio therapy, body fat scans, routine hyperbaric oxygen therapy. You do MRIs, blood and stool-sample tests. You experiment with drugs like metformin and plasmalogens. You had 300 million young Swedish bone-marrow stem cells injected into your shoulders, hips, and joints. You received follistatin gene therapy in Honduras. You did a total plasma exchange, removing the plasma in your body and replacing it with something called albumin. You inject yourself for brain health. You get these bloody facials. I could go on. . . . What’s the point of all of this? Tell me about these experimental treatments.
BJ: So everything you’ve listed off is a scientific, evidence-based approach on how to reduce the biological age of the organs of my body. And so we’re trying to get my body to be age 18 across the entire body, which right now is a really crazy endeavor. We’re just not there yet. But that’s what we’re trying to systematically engineer.
BW: I’ve got to ask: How do you go on a date?
BJ: It’s pretty challenging. When I’ve gone on dates I will say, “This is who I am. And here’s 10 reasons why you’re probably going to hate me.”
BW: And how does that go over?
BJ: The very common response is, “Thank you. Like, I really appreciate the transparency and honesty. This is so refreshingly upfront.” And some will say, “You’re right, this just doesn’t work with me.” And others will be like, “Honestly, it’s kind of cool, kind of badass.”
On why sleep is more important than anyone thinks:
BW: What are some of the big takeaways for other people that are accessible already from your experiment?
BJ: The number one most powerful drug is sleep. It’s not just, “get more sleep.” I’ll tell you the five things I would do for sleep.
One is remapping your identity—that you are a professional sleeper, that you take sleep as seriously as you do your profession.
Number two is that your final meal is at least two hours before bedtime. You’ll see your sleep scores soar.
Number three is light. Try to eliminate blue lights. Turn your screens off, any lights in the house that are blue—you want reds and amber lights before bed.
Number four is consistency. The body loves routine. Try to be very precise about your bedtime.
Five is to have a wind-down routine. Your body needs to settle down when, at the end of day, you’re processing through all these complicated emotions. So I go for a walk or meditate, read a book. It’s not just get more sleep. It’s build your life around sleep.
On why Bryan thinks he’s the healthiest person in the world:
BJ: When this first became viral, people would not know how to categorize me. They’d say things like, “billionaire, eccentric, weirdo, vampire, fuck boy.” They’re just trying to string words together. And what they don’t understand is I’ve actually created a new professional sport out of longevity and health.
I have the best comprehensive biomarkers of anybody on this planet. I am quantitatively the healthiest person alive. I am the Olympic gold medal champion of health. I’m number one in the world. And I publish all my data. So I’ve tried to say that health, rejuvenation, and longevity is now an official sport. And here are the markers.
On whether ‘Don’t Die’ is a fantasy—and what he says to his critics:
BW: Am I missing some broader sort of cultural shift or some broader, huge scientific breakthrough that I should be made aware of?
BJ: We basically have all of the primary tools needed to substantially slow down the speed of aging, regenerate organs, and reverse age. Now, those things are in the maturation process. We don’t have them as clinical therapies. But if you just say, “What would we theoretically need to have mastered as the basic tool set, so that with an advanced technological ability, we could solve it—it’s there.” All the pieces are falling into place. It’s not obvious. You have to kind of squint to see it. But all the pieces are there for this to happen.
I think people are going to say two things happened in the early twenty-first century. We gave birth to superintelligence, and we figured out how to not die.
BW: I think most people are going to be with you on the former. But I think a lot of people, frankly, me included, will say, “Bryan, it’s awesome that your organs are the age of an 18-year-old, but the idea that not dying is within our grasp in the way that AI superintelligence is possible seems totally implausible.” What evidence is there of that?
BJ: Talent is the ability to hit the target no one else can. Genius is the ability to hit the target no one can see. If you go back through history and you look at the improbable things that people said that are now normalized and accomplished, you realize that everything at one point was improbable. Everything at some point was impossible.
BW: What do you think the idea of being human is?
BJ: I’m going to secure that you’re alive so that you can ask this question. And what I’m saying is that the beauty of existence is that we can ask questions about existence. If you’re dead, you can’t ask questions. And so I’m saying Don’t Die is the zero order priority for existence. Once you exist, the most important goal is to still exist.
BW: But do you think being human is a social construct?
BJ: I think our ideas of being human and consciousness are going to change beyond our ability to comprehend in just a very short period of time. I think it will change so dramatically, we will be unrecognizable from our current state.
BW: There are some longevity scientists who are interviewed in the documentary who say, this is a really neat way to do your life, but the idea that this is scientific is bogus. What do you say to that criticism?
BJ: They don’t understand what I’m trying to do. All of us understand intuitively that if your knee hurts, you need to do something to fix your knee and solve that problem. You get an MRI or ultrasound, and you try to identify what’s happening, and then you come up with a solution. So that is a very practical thing we do every day.
What they really don’t understand is that I’m trying to solve for human existence and intelligence in the galaxy. I’m not trying to solve for a Nature paper. I’m not trying to solve a certain drug to be on trial. I’m trying to say we are on this ball in space. What do we do in this moment? And so they just simply don’t understand what I’m after. I’m also after a cultural change—shifting the norm that sleeping under your desk is not cool, it’s stupid.
BW: I think a lot of people will hear about what you do and think to themselves, He’s spending all of his time trying to not die and missing the things that make life—life! What do you say to that?
BJ: It’s very easy. Let’s just imagine we’re doing a thought experiment. We’re hanging out with Homo erectus. They existed one million years ago. And we said to Homo erectus, “Homo erectus, tell us: What is the purpose of life?” And they’re going to grunt and be like, “Well, it’s about hunting and gathering, and we’re going to move our tribe, but have more and more.” They wouldn’t be able to tell you about quantum mechanics or about smartphones or antibiotics or about the electromagnetic spectra, or about this new form of art. They’re not concepts that they understand, and so they wouldn’t be able to speak intelligently about what a beautiful life is. They’re just so primitive in their thought processes.
We are equally as primitive. We cannot say anything intelligent about the future anymore. And so the idea that we somehow have mastered existence and that we know what the purpose of existence is, is so silly of a notion. So to me, the most powerful thing for us to do is to be incredibly humble and say, “In this moment, we may not know anything, and it may be in our best interest to try to dissolve all of our preconceived notions of what it means and step into this frontier, because it may be the most extraordinary existence in this part of the galaxy.”
Lightning Round:
BW: When was the last time you ate cake?
BJ: Years ago.
BW: Do you ever indulge?
BJ: I don’t ever indulge or go off of the routine. It’s so painful to indulge. I just hate the thought. It’s gone from a temptation to an abhorrence. I just can’t even imagine doing it.
BW: You can’t imagine having a piece of chocolate?
BJ: No. I’ve spent hundreds of thousands of dollars testing food. I know that chocolate is packed with heavy metals. I know that it has sugar. I know that it has some junk ingredients. I know when it goes into my body, it’s going to accelerate aging. I know it’s going to negatively affect my sleep. I know tomorrow I’m going to feel the deficiency in my sleep of having not slept as well.
BW: When’s the last time you had a cold?
BJ: Years.
BW: I’m going to list a few health trends and you tell me your one-sentence or one-word opinion. Oura rings?
BJ: Great tracker.
BW: Blue-light blockers?
BJ: Good.
BW: UV filters on windows?
BJ: Great.
BW: Barefoot shoes?
BJ: Great.
BW: Ozempic?
BJ: I’m on Ozempic. I’m on a micro, micro dose—2.5 units once a week. The benefits for longevity are actually really compelling. There’s a lot of potential benefit from these drugs.
BW: Cold plunge?
BJ: I metabolically cold plunge. My body temperature has declined five degrees Fahrenheit since I’ve been doing this. My body temp is now 93 in the morning. It’s a result of having no inflammation, caloric restriction, time-restricted eating where my metabolism is now so much more efficient that my body temp has dropped. There’s a lot of evidence showing that lower body temp drops are associated with increased lifespan. So as context, you’d have to swim in ice for a mile to achieve the same body temp that I have.
BW: Do you think that you’re going to die?
BJ: No.
BW: Really? You think you’re going to live forever?
BJ: Forever is not a concept the human mind can contemplate. But will we be able to radically extend life beyond our preconceived imaginations? Yes. Will it happen before my natural limit right now, which is my life expectancy (probably like 80 to 90)? The technology is moving so quickly that the species is going to either survive or die in this moment much sooner than my life expectancy would turn up.
BW: How long do you want to live?
BJ: I think of it like this: I’m very happy. I’m alive today. And tomorrow, I have things to do. And I’m excited about when Saturday arrives. I know I have things to do on Sunday I’m pretty excited about. And so living for tomorrow and living forever are identical concepts.
