From a medical perspective, I see, potentially, several factors that are likely contributors to what seems to me to be an overall increase in sports injuries. Year-round training and participation in a single sport does not allow for an off-season for minor chronic muscle strains and ligament sprains from ever completely healing, or the use and development of other groups of muscles that can complement those most necessary for the sport in question. I have a theory that the common and frequent use of non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, e.g. ibuprofen, naproxen, contributes in at least two ways--it blocks some of the pain feedback that limits what we are willing to put our bodies through, and it blocks some of the necessary inflammation involved in the process of healthy healing of injured tissue--both leading to chronic weakening of the involved muscles, ligaments, and joint surfaces. Heavier average body weight may be attributed simply to increased muscle mass, but there is a law of diminishing returns when this added mass puts added stress on joint supporting tissues as well as the skeletal system--the bony tissue itself. Think of the muscle mass of a Sherpa guide in the Himalayas. They are incredibly strong and have off-the-charts conditioning and stamina, but they are quite slender by Western standards. Muscles don't have to be bigger to be stronger and better conditioned. And then the never-ending mission to break previous records, records that may already represent the outer limits of a strong, healthy, outlier type of human body, leads not only to pushing through the pain to achieve "mind over matter", but beyond the limits of that matter. We do not all have the same limits (sorry, equity of outcome disciples), but we all have limits.
Why is nothing mentioned about the parents in these situations? I'm sure it's hard for them when their child shows extraordinary talent and determination at a young age. But come on, can parents be held accountable for their passive part in their child's well being? Could it be that some are, at best, turning a blind eye, and at worst, the ones actually pushing their kids to their limit? I'd like to read a well-researched article about the parents behind these athletes.
Why were there so few athletes quoted in this article? Did the author do no serious reporting? Or did those she interview disagree with its very premise? We have a very incomplete and extraordinarily biased picture here from embittered sources and authors.
For good or bad, the only way we can discover our limits is to “break” ourselves against them. Sport, in general, and gymnastics, in particular, is a special opportunity for a certain very very tough & talented cohort of humanity to discover their natural limits.
This manic concern with THEIR pain ignores the fact that they absolutely do choose it. Most gymnasts drop out by CHOICE long before they might have gotten to the level of these supreme elites.
When we confuse the determinative force of extreme investment in their sport with some false sense of “no choice” — while observing only a single episode in a long career — we risk misjudging their experience.
Jennifer Sey is a poster child for the embittered gymnast who failed to achieve her Olympic dreams. Casting about to blame others for her dissatisfaction she has made a lot of noise. But I would would rather hear from her quiet colleagues.
All this talk of ‘protecting these athletes from themselves’ is tantamount to conspiracy to commit robbery. Would we really rob them of the opportunity to discover their limits?
Conflates Nassar’s sexual abuse, alleged physical & emotional coaching abuse, and societal pressure with self-inflicted sports injuries.
“Strug never competed again” was a nice flourish but potentially very misleading. Most olympians never compete again because they’ve ACHIEVED their goal of Olympic competion! Especially the medalists.
To judge her choice we need to hear from Kerri Strug, not from a “disgusted” Jennifer Sey or a disapproving MD.
To suggest that these athletes need to be protected from themselves is to acknowledge that they are choosing freely and to promote denying them the liberty to make that choice.
I think it is good to bring up these kinds of questions and have us as a society, think about it. I believe for some, they are willing to do whatever it takes to be the best. It's a different mindset than the average human. sabrinalabow.substack.com
This article fails to ask the most important question: Where are the parents of these young athletes? Indeed, where were the author's, when she was strapped to a support, stuck in her living room at home for months on end?
They spend all their lives preparing for the ultimate test of will & prowess. In many sports they're hasbeens at age 22. The difference between winning & losing is measured in fractions of a second. Winning is paramount even if it means sacrificing one's well being, physically & mentally. He starts playing football as a child in the PeeWee league. He enters the NFL, retires & at age 40 is a broken man in constant pain. He dies at age 50 from Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy. Is it worth the prestige & MONEY? "No pain, NO gain"?
The USA women's gymnastics team enjoys a solid day-one lead over its competition
Terrance Kible
July 28, 2024
The USA women's gymnastics team had a strong showing on Sunday at the 2024 Olympics in Paris, France. The team's strong showing occurred despite teammate Simone Biles suffering pain in her left calf, ESPN reported.
Despite her pain, Biles signaled she was fine to perform and gave a session-high performance for her.
Excellent article; here's one further thought. Competitive sports, for most of their history, were an exclusively male domain. Indeed, they arose as an organic part of the warrior ethos, to hone and demonstrate the strength, speed, stamina, grit, and teamwork that were (and are) essential to warfighting. Athletes continuing to compete despite injury was organic to sport for the same reason it was organic to warfighting. The example Francesca cites regarding baseball pitchers is interesting, but it relates mostly to economic realities (major league pitchers are expensive) and the contemporary fetish of "safety-ism." There's a limit to how far that can go: the "safer" the NFL tries to make pro football, the more audience it loses to the UFC and other extreme sports. The article raises deeper questions: do women really want their sports to partake of the same warrior ethos that still underlies male sports? Or are the two realms of sport allowed to differ in their spirit, just as male and female gymnastics differ in the events performed? The injury issue, like the trans issue, gives weight and urgency to those questions.
Few in these comments seem concerned with what the gymnasts themselves actually think about all of this.
And I am confident no young gymnast thinks about their sport in terms of the war fighting ethos that you present here.
This entire conversation derives from woke safteyism. These girls are an absolute affront to that social disease and woke simply won’t tolerate examples that contradict its narrative.
Rather than imposing your philosophical visions on their world, perhaps learn a thing or two from these very inspirational women.
Let them pursue their vision of happiness in peace, people
I'm very concerned with "what gymnasts themselves actually think," which is why I ended with questions rather than conclusions. The article asks how much pain, and how much risk of permanent injury, should an athlete tolerate in order to achieve the glory of victory (and, perhaps, also the financial rewards that often go with it). I agree that such is ultimately a personal decision. I don't presume to know how young gymnasts think about their sport, but even if not one of them knows the origin of the sport itself, or of the word "gymnastics," those origins are still Greek, and the warrior ethos is part of that, even if you don't care for the term. The article expresses reservations about the current state of US women's gymnastics, and puts much of the blame on influential Romanian coaches. Why did Eastern European countries in the mid-20th century develop such a powerful passion for athletic excellence--even to the point of encouraging brutality in coaching? I suspect the Cold War had a lot to do with it: the warrior ethos, indeed.
I see where you’re going. But I think the article actually “asks how much pain, and how much risk of permanent injury, should [SOCIETY] tolerate in” a sport for very young women. Ironically sexist, in my humble male opinion. And an invitation for unwanted intervention by those who know nothing about the motivations of these athletes.
Your suspicions about the Cold War playing a role are of course correct — explains East Bloc societal and governmental commitment to these sports. But the athletes were in it for the same reasons our athletes today are in it: love of sport & pursuit of glory.
This I know from first hand experience: I trained in another acrobatic sport for five years with the Moscow members of their national and Olympic teams. I saw nothing close to what the Karolyis are accused of — and I’d argue that some of what the Karolyis did are necessary to help these athletes reach their full potential. It’s telling that East European athletes and coaches think our panicked safety-ism is ridiculous.
Let me add that I have had seven orthopedic surgeries due twonathletic careers — one in USGF & NCAA men’s gymnastics followed by even more years in USA Diving. I also failed to achieve my more modest dream of competing in an Olympic trials. I am now 60 and my body hurts every day. Yet I regret only that fate didn’t spare me those injuries — I cannot blame anyone else, even myself, for them. And I would not trade my athletic experiences for relief.
You may recall that “Fate” is a significant Greek concept — one that we delusional Westerners fantasize that we can prevent or overcome.
That's a really good summary, and it means a lot that you added your personal experience into the dialogue. I agree that the article does essentially argue for more regulation of sport, especially with regard to young females; as I said, I think that should be up to the athletes themselves. We also absolutely agree in deploring the safetyism that now infects so much of our public life. I've never been a competitive diver, but I still find it disgraceful that the typical "deep end" of a hotel swimming pool is 5 feet. The Greeks would mock us--and so would our own ancestors.
I am watching major league baseball, and what I describe is a response to exactly what you are saying--that the competitive nature of the modern game required pitchers to go out and throw as hard as they can on every pitch and was destroying arms, so the sport adjusted to preserve those precious resources a little longer. A 5-man rotation and a bullpen of excellent specialists is now de rigeur to be competitive. Go back 30 years and it was common for teams to have 4-man rotations and aces pitching on only 2 days rest during the September pennant stretch or in the playoffs. I am old enough to remember Mickey Lolich starting and winning 3 games in the 1968 World Series, pitching Game 7 on 2 days rest, after Denny McLain pitched Game 6 on 2 days rest. Almost inconceivable today.
The game changed in important ways to accommodate the demands that you describe now being placed on starting pitchers, and I am suggesting that the Karolyi style may require some analogous changes in women's gymnastics.
Athletes are getting injured because they are pushing their bodies to the absolute limit. Those that do, survive, and have the talent, may win. It makes them human, and we admire those who top the podium.
Yesterday, we attended the Cardinals game, where the 1964 World Series Champions were honored 60 years after their victory. Time has taken its toll, men who were once at the top of the game are all now old men in their 80s, yet we still cheer for them. No one will ever take that Championship away, no matter how small a part they took in it. They were good enough to be on that team, the dream of almost every boy in America at some point at that time.
Thirty years ago, while waiting for a tour of Oxford, I was wandering outside the starting point when I walked by a nameplate for an office - it said Dr. Roger Bannister. Forget all the patients he treated and the good he did as a doctor, I was standing outside the office of someone known for one day in 1954 and it was electrifying, even though I never saw him, just his name plaque. I've since read the story of how he did it and all that it took and I'm sure he would say that it was worth everything he went through. And even though his record was broken many times, now by quite a bit, he was the first - and thus immortal.
The Karoli's produced winners, but they were a glimpse into the system that produced them and their champions behind the Iron Curtain. The individual meant nothing, it was for the glory of the state and the system that produced them. A system that produces the best must be the best, no? But like sausage, you really don't want to see what goes on behind the scenes in the sausage factory.
Years ago, I read of a study that asked high level athletes if they were offered a drug that would guarantee them a gold medal or a championship, but a high probablity they'd be dead 5 years later, would they take it. A surprisingly high number said yes, memory says the number was around 40%. That's the mindset we're dealing with, something we civilians can't quite understand. Is it any wonder that they train so hard, enduring injury, no life outside their sport, monotony, pain, surgery, sometimes performance enhancing drugs, and even changing their sex to win? Winning is like drug addiction, you'll do almost anything for a taste. But beware the cost, for all glory is fleeting.
Kerri Strug is an American Hero. Now the question is, what is that worth to you? Fighting through pain to win is an admirable trait. It is also admirable to be able to stand up for yourself. Say no, to me, this isn’t worth a life long injury. Both are examples of strength. We don’t need to glamorize one and put down the other.
I am not arguing against sports, as I was a three sport athlete in high school, on three different state championship teams. But it was not nearly as intense, there was little in the way of pre-season or post-season camps and trainers, we were home for dinner and available on Saturday mornings for house hold chores and Sunday mornings for church. I have generally seen, in the adolescents in my practice, that they are getting insufficient sleep, are in a constant state of burnout, never have family dinners, have little time for music or theater or debate club or jazz ensemble in their 24 / 7 /365 pursuit of athletic achievement, and seem to be driven more by their parents zeal and ambitions. And, yes, there are coaches who use sports as ways of instilling life lessons and constructing a moral compass. And one could say that the ones who are stretched thin, anxious and depressed, turning to restrictive eating or using cannabis as ways of coping, are the ones in my clinic, and not representative.
From a medical perspective, I see, potentially, several factors that are likely contributors to what seems to me to be an overall increase in sports injuries. Year-round training and participation in a single sport does not allow for an off-season for minor chronic muscle strains and ligament sprains from ever completely healing, or the use and development of other groups of muscles that can complement those most necessary for the sport in question. I have a theory that the common and frequent use of non-steroidal anti-inflammatory drugs, e.g. ibuprofen, naproxen, contributes in at least two ways--it blocks some of the pain feedback that limits what we are willing to put our bodies through, and it blocks some of the necessary inflammation involved in the process of healthy healing of injured tissue--both leading to chronic weakening of the involved muscles, ligaments, and joint surfaces. Heavier average body weight may be attributed simply to increased muscle mass, but there is a law of diminishing returns when this added mass puts added stress on joint supporting tissues as well as the skeletal system--the bony tissue itself. Think of the muscle mass of a Sherpa guide in the Himalayas. They are incredibly strong and have off-the-charts conditioning and stamina, but they are quite slender by Western standards. Muscles don't have to be bigger to be stronger and better conditioned. And then the never-ending mission to break previous records, records that may already represent the outer limits of a strong, healthy, outlier type of human body, leads not only to pushing through the pain to achieve "mind over matter", but beyond the limits of that matter. We do not all have the same limits (sorry, equity of outcome disciples), but we all have limits.
Why is nothing mentioned about the parents in these situations? I'm sure it's hard for them when their child shows extraordinary talent and determination at a young age. But come on, can parents be held accountable for their passive part in their child's well being? Could it be that some are, at best, turning a blind eye, and at worst, the ones actually pushing their kids to their limit? I'd like to read a well-researched article about the parents behind these athletes.
Why were there so few athletes quoted in this article? Did the author do no serious reporting? Or did those she interview disagree with its very premise? We have a very incomplete and extraordinarily biased picture here from embittered sources and authors.
For good or bad, the only way we can discover our limits is to “break” ourselves against them. Sport, in general, and gymnastics, in particular, is a special opportunity for a certain very very tough & talented cohort of humanity to discover their natural limits.
This manic concern with THEIR pain ignores the fact that they absolutely do choose it. Most gymnasts drop out by CHOICE long before they might have gotten to the level of these supreme elites.
When we confuse the determinative force of extreme investment in their sport with some false sense of “no choice” — while observing only a single episode in a long career — we risk misjudging their experience.
Jennifer Sey is a poster child for the embittered gymnast who failed to achieve her Olympic dreams. Casting about to blame others for her dissatisfaction she has made a lot of noise. But I would would rather hear from her quiet colleagues.
All this talk of ‘protecting these athletes from themselves’ is tantamount to conspiracy to commit robbery. Would we really rob them of the opportunity to discover their limits?
This is an awful article:
Conflates Nassar’s sexual abuse, alleged physical & emotional coaching abuse, and societal pressure with self-inflicted sports injuries.
“Strug never competed again” was a nice flourish but potentially very misleading. Most olympians never compete again because they’ve ACHIEVED their goal of Olympic competion! Especially the medalists.
To judge her choice we need to hear from Kerri Strug, not from a “disgusted” Jennifer Sey or a disapproving MD.
To suggest that these athletes need to be protected from themselves is to acknowledge that they are choosing freely and to promote denying them the liberty to make that choice.
Incredible!
Bad, bad journalism
Parents play a big role in this too. Many are living vicariously through their children.
I think it is good to bring up these kinds of questions and have us as a society, think about it. I believe for some, they are willing to do whatever it takes to be the best. It's a different mindset than the average human. sabrinalabow.substack.com
This article fails to ask the most important question: Where are the parents of these young athletes? Indeed, where were the author's, when she was strapped to a support, stuck in her living room at home for months on end?
They spend all their lives preparing for the ultimate test of will & prowess. In many sports they're hasbeens at age 22. The difference between winning & losing is measured in fractions of a second. Winning is paramount even if it means sacrificing one's well being, physically & mentally. He starts playing football as a child in the PeeWee league. He enters the NFL, retires & at age 40 is a broken man in constant pain. He dies at age 50 from Chronic Traumatic Encephalopathy. Is it worth the prestige & MONEY? "No pain, NO gain"?
Simone Biles powers through pain to deliver for U.S. women's gymnastics team
https://justthenews.com/events/biles-powers-through-pain-deliver-us-womens-gymnastics-team
The USA women's gymnastics team enjoys a solid day-one lead over its competition
Terrance Kible
July 28, 2024
The USA women's gymnastics team had a strong showing on Sunday at the 2024 Olympics in Paris, France. The team's strong showing occurred despite teammate Simone Biles suffering pain in her left calf, ESPN reported.
Despite her pain, Biles signaled she was fine to perform and gave a session-high performance for her.
(Snip)
When you keep practicing a sport beyond the "retirement age" for that sport, "despite pain", there is something very wrong with you and your life.
Excellent article; here's one further thought. Competitive sports, for most of their history, were an exclusively male domain. Indeed, they arose as an organic part of the warrior ethos, to hone and demonstrate the strength, speed, stamina, grit, and teamwork that were (and are) essential to warfighting. Athletes continuing to compete despite injury was organic to sport for the same reason it was organic to warfighting. The example Francesca cites regarding baseball pitchers is interesting, but it relates mostly to economic realities (major league pitchers are expensive) and the contemporary fetish of "safety-ism." There's a limit to how far that can go: the "safer" the NFL tries to make pro football, the more audience it loses to the UFC and other extreme sports. The article raises deeper questions: do women really want their sports to partake of the same warrior ethos that still underlies male sports? Or are the two realms of sport allowed to differ in their spirit, just as male and female gymnastics differ in the events performed? The injury issue, like the trans issue, gives weight and urgency to those questions.
Few in these comments seem concerned with what the gymnasts themselves actually think about all of this.
And I am confident no young gymnast thinks about their sport in terms of the war fighting ethos that you present here.
This entire conversation derives from woke safteyism. These girls are an absolute affront to that social disease and woke simply won’t tolerate examples that contradict its narrative.
Rather than imposing your philosophical visions on their world, perhaps learn a thing or two from these very inspirational women.
Let them pursue their vision of happiness in peace, people
I'm very concerned with "what gymnasts themselves actually think," which is why I ended with questions rather than conclusions. The article asks how much pain, and how much risk of permanent injury, should an athlete tolerate in order to achieve the glory of victory (and, perhaps, also the financial rewards that often go with it). I agree that such is ultimately a personal decision. I don't presume to know how young gymnasts think about their sport, but even if not one of them knows the origin of the sport itself, or of the word "gymnastics," those origins are still Greek, and the warrior ethos is part of that, even if you don't care for the term. The article expresses reservations about the current state of US women's gymnastics, and puts much of the blame on influential Romanian coaches. Why did Eastern European countries in the mid-20th century develop such a powerful passion for athletic excellence--even to the point of encouraging brutality in coaching? I suspect the Cold War had a lot to do with it: the warrior ethos, indeed.
I see where you’re going. But I think the article actually “asks how much pain, and how much risk of permanent injury, should [SOCIETY] tolerate in” a sport for very young women. Ironically sexist, in my humble male opinion. And an invitation for unwanted intervention by those who know nothing about the motivations of these athletes.
Your suspicions about the Cold War playing a role are of course correct — explains East Bloc societal and governmental commitment to these sports. But the athletes were in it for the same reasons our athletes today are in it: love of sport & pursuit of glory.
This I know from first hand experience: I trained in another acrobatic sport for five years with the Moscow members of their national and Olympic teams. I saw nothing close to what the Karolyis are accused of — and I’d argue that some of what the Karolyis did are necessary to help these athletes reach their full potential. It’s telling that East European athletes and coaches think our panicked safety-ism is ridiculous.
Let me add that I have had seven orthopedic surgeries due twonathletic careers — one in USGF & NCAA men’s gymnastics followed by even more years in USA Diving. I also failed to achieve my more modest dream of competing in an Olympic trials. I am now 60 and my body hurts every day. Yet I regret only that fate didn’t spare me those injuries — I cannot blame anyone else, even myself, for them. And I would not trade my athletic experiences for relief.
You may recall that “Fate” is a significant Greek concept — one that we delusional Westerners fantasize that we can prevent or overcome.
The Greeks would mock us; and rightly so.
That's a really good summary, and it means a lot that you added your personal experience into the dialogue. I agree that the article does essentially argue for more regulation of sport, especially with regard to young females; as I said, I think that should be up to the athletes themselves. We also absolutely agree in deploring the safetyism that now infects so much of our public life. I've never been a competitive diver, but I still find it disgraceful that the typical "deep end" of a hotel swimming pool is 5 feet. The Greeks would mock us--and so would our own ancestors.
Superb reporting. Thank you.
I'd be curious to know if it's the same in other countries whose teams are successful in this sport.
I am watching major league baseball, and what I describe is a response to exactly what you are saying--that the competitive nature of the modern game required pitchers to go out and throw as hard as they can on every pitch and was destroying arms, so the sport adjusted to preserve those precious resources a little longer. A 5-man rotation and a bullpen of excellent specialists is now de rigeur to be competitive. Go back 30 years and it was common for teams to have 4-man rotations and aces pitching on only 2 days rest during the September pennant stretch or in the playoffs. I am old enough to remember Mickey Lolich starting and winning 3 games in the 1968 World Series, pitching Game 7 on 2 days rest, after Denny McLain pitched Game 6 on 2 days rest. Almost inconceivable today.
The game changed in important ways to accommodate the demands that you describe now being placed on starting pitchers, and I am suggesting that the Karolyi style may require some analogous changes in women's gymnastics.
Athletes are getting injured because they are pushing their bodies to the absolute limit. Those that do, survive, and have the talent, may win. It makes them human, and we admire those who top the podium.
Yesterday, we attended the Cardinals game, where the 1964 World Series Champions were honored 60 years after their victory. Time has taken its toll, men who were once at the top of the game are all now old men in their 80s, yet we still cheer for them. No one will ever take that Championship away, no matter how small a part they took in it. They were good enough to be on that team, the dream of almost every boy in America at some point at that time.
Thirty years ago, while waiting for a tour of Oxford, I was wandering outside the starting point when I walked by a nameplate for an office - it said Dr. Roger Bannister. Forget all the patients he treated and the good he did as a doctor, I was standing outside the office of someone known for one day in 1954 and it was electrifying, even though I never saw him, just his name plaque. I've since read the story of how he did it and all that it took and I'm sure he would say that it was worth everything he went through. And even though his record was broken many times, now by quite a bit, he was the first - and thus immortal.
The Karoli's produced winners, but they were a glimpse into the system that produced them and their champions behind the Iron Curtain. The individual meant nothing, it was for the glory of the state and the system that produced them. A system that produces the best must be the best, no? But like sausage, you really don't want to see what goes on behind the scenes in the sausage factory.
Years ago, I read of a study that asked high level athletes if they were offered a drug that would guarantee them a gold medal or a championship, but a high probablity they'd be dead 5 years later, would they take it. A surprisingly high number said yes, memory says the number was around 40%. That's the mindset we're dealing with, something we civilians can't quite understand. Is it any wonder that they train so hard, enduring injury, no life outside their sport, monotony, pain, surgery, sometimes performance enhancing drugs, and even changing their sex to win? Winning is like drug addiction, you'll do almost anything for a taste. But beware the cost, for all glory is fleeting.
Kerri Strug is an American Hero. Now the question is, what is that worth to you? Fighting through pain to win is an admirable trait. It is also admirable to be able to stand up for yourself. Say no, to me, this isn’t worth a life long injury. Both are examples of strength. We don’t need to glamorize one and put down the other.
I am not arguing against sports, as I was a three sport athlete in high school, on three different state championship teams. But it was not nearly as intense, there was little in the way of pre-season or post-season camps and trainers, we were home for dinner and available on Saturday mornings for house hold chores and Sunday mornings for church. I have generally seen, in the adolescents in my practice, that they are getting insufficient sleep, are in a constant state of burnout, never have family dinners, have little time for music or theater or debate club or jazz ensemble in their 24 / 7 /365 pursuit of athletic achievement, and seem to be driven more by their parents zeal and ambitions. And, yes, there are coaches who use sports as ways of instilling life lessons and constructing a moral compass. And one could say that the ones who are stretched thin, anxious and depressed, turning to restrictive eating or using cannabis as ways of coping, are the ones in my clinic, and not representative.
💯💯💯