This type of fantasy does not belong on this site. Public policy trumps crazy religious practice every time. We don't let churches endorse the rape of children no matter what their "magic book says." That what the founders wanted free practice of religions within the context of legal behavior.
This kind of junk thinking does not belong on this siite. We live in a civil society. The government can pass laws that prohibit the free practice of religion. Churches can't engage in child abuse, ritualist rape or any other practice that violates public policy. This is long settled why are we even giving it hearing
It's fair to say that there is no one factor that accounts for all the differences. It's a complex, multivariable problem and looking at any one aspect in isolation isn't going to tell the whole story.
In regards to masks, we know that flu deaths were significantly lower than normal during the peak Covid period...
This should not be surprising since the same tools used to slow the spread of Covid were going to be effective against the flu. Masks and lockdowns were the two primary tools used. From this it seems evident that they are in fact effective, at least against the flu. Even the early strains of Covid were of course more contagious than the flu, but it doesn't make sense to me that masks and lockdowns would have zero impact on Covid when some combination of the two had such a profound impact on flu deaths (and it seems reasonable to assume, transmission rates).
Suffice it to say, that any study that claims little to no impact from lockdowns and masks is highly suspect in my eyes. It just doesn't make sense both due to the argument I made in the paragraph above and because I've looked at some of the raw data, in particular the San Francisco Bay area and Los Angeles. The San Francisco Bay area was the first or near first in the country to impose lockdowns. Los Angeles followed a couple of weeks later. Los Angeles saw far more deaths per capita from Covid in the early going than San Francisco.
On the topic of New York, I've heard that New York city had the subways running at full capacity due to fewer trains running during the early days of the pandemic. Which in turn led to many more infections and thus deaths than would have happened otherwise.
All fake. Those that took off the mask and were unvaccinated did not get sick and found out that our government was lying to us. It only killed a few people, and they would have died from the flu anyway...except for the Governors that put infected patients in nursing homes.
If it was "safe" to take your mask of while eating (at the French Laundry!) it was safe to take it off while praying. My orthodox Jewish 'minyan" which operates on the down-low in people's houses never stopped meeting. (We did have services in the backyard weather permitting instead of indoors.) Nobody got sick.
What government did to people during covid under the umbrella of public safety was disgraceful. It may have started with good intention but quickly turned into dictates and threats. Remember this people and don’t let it happen again.
What an important reminder of what we were forced to live through! I actually forgot all of this. How? I think it was just too much to remember. I hope Calvary Church prevails.
What was done to us in the name of public health was abusive and tragic.
The Cochrane review (Gold Standard RCT)validates the total uselessness of masking to prevent transmission or infection, including N95s. , and has been known for at least a century .Why can’t the County admit they were wrong? The hypocrisy of some leftists is appalling. Ok for me not for thee.
Sorry. The Cochrane does not do testing. They select and compile the work of other researchers. If you read the Cochrane report on mask trials you would see that they”... could find no evidence that masks work.” That’s not the same as finding that “masks do not work.” Read the section of the report titled: “Main Results.” ( Don’t worry, it’s on the first page.) There you will find these two statements: First, ”Adherence with interventions was low in many studies.” Second, “The risk of bias for the RCTs and Cluster-RCTs was mostly high or unclear.” I’m always surprised at how many people cite this “study” ( I put it in quotes because it’s actually NOT A STUDY. At best, it’s a study of some (selected) studies.) You cannot do a Random Clinical Trial, or a Cluster-Random Clinical Trial, on masks. It’s not feasible. The random part, in a golden clinical trial, is double-blind. You CANNOT do a double-blind test of a mask. One, unknown, group gets the “Intervention” (the ‘real’ mask, while the other group gets a ‘placebo’ mask. That’s the golden standard trial. So, tell me, “What the hell is a “placebo mask?” Do you specially manufacturer masks that look like the real thing but are “guaranteed” to not work? Get real. There is no clinical evidence because there’s no way to test masks in a CRT or Cluster-CRT fashion. Don’t just repeat the same ‘ol’ crap; do your own research. If someone slings a lot of crap without any real facts their claims are based on crap; if you believe them because the other person said so, your ideas are also based on the same crappy thinking. You can’t get good fruit from a rotten tree. You could try doing a Google search of your own...
Agreed. All I was saying is that a meta study is only as good as the studies it is built upon. RCTs and Cluster-RCTs of masks are extremely, if not completely, difficult to control. Even Cochrane admits problems with “low compliance” and “high or unclear” bias. Either of these would be anathema to ANY study. Both at the same time...? Down in flames. Garbage in, garbage out... If a person wants respect for their opinion they need to do their OWN research into the topic, whatever that may be. DON’T BE A LEMMING!
I'm willing to concede low compliance, chin diapers, and dirty masks worn for 4 weeks consecutively may compromise the optimum efficacy of masks. One might even posit an entire nation attempting to be precise with a flimsy piece of cloth would pose inherit problems. I'm unconvinced the default assumption should be to force citizens, children, all health care workers, to where cloth masks for 3 years. I hope Cochrane recovers from your devastating take down.
April 2020, a rainy weekday in Ocean City, MD, winter population 2,000, when there were so few visitors in town that most of the traffic signals were turned to flash, I requested permission from St. Peter's Lutheran Church to cross their empty lobby to access the columbarium in which the remains of both my parents are housed. I could not access the outdoor columbarium via the outside path due to construction. I stated that, while I was fully vaccinated, I was aware of the mandate for masking indoors, and I would comply. I was FLATLY DENIED entry into an empty building, alone, off season, for no reason. I asked how they could possibly justify this, and received a lot of ridiculous gobbledegook about safety in reply. I reminded them that the Church was supposed to minister to all, even the lepers, and I was not asking anyone to risk life or health to let me cross the church lobby. I was still denied, despite my vaccinated status and willingness to comply with local regulations. I advised them that their cowardice was repugnant, and reminded them that the local hospital, the hospital where I worked, and every other hospital and most doctors offices (mine included) in the country remained open, providing services well beyond crisis care. I was met not just with indifference, but active hostility, for attempting to disturb their leisure in their denial of their duties. This is the type of church whose congregants need a Calvary Chapel. The church that denies congregants the most basic of ministries out of fear will die.
I didn't know this was happening in the US too. Thankyou for the heads up Heather. Things here in Canada have been happening pretty much in sync with the worst counties in California.
In Western Canada, churches have been burned and no efforts made to make any arrests. Yet they have hounded and continually imprisoned a certain pastor in Alberta for keeping his church open since the mandates began in 2020. When they chained the church doors he held parking lot services that attracted many hundreds, even in -20° weather. Some parishioners had to park on the shoulders of the highway. When they jailed him the first time the RCMP built a chain link fence around the church property. They used the parking lot for RCMP vehicles and the church itself as a rural office.
Every time they released him he would hold services wherever he was able. He has continued to support the truckers protesting the mandates that were destroying our jobs and businesses. He most recently spent 6 months, I believe, in jail for speaking out against the Woke and the continuing persecution of people who protested the draconian mandates of 2020, 2021 and 2022. He isn't the only pastor that has suffered for the rights of the people. In Ontario, the provinces police and Healthcare system first targeted the most vulnerable, secluded people, the Amish, shutting down thier churches and fining thier communities for singing while congregating. In one community the entire population stood against the OPP and said they wouldn't stand down, that they would have thier church services regardless. To my knowledge they are the only successful community to do so without caving to the mandates and pressure.
To give this perspective as we all still struggle to regain some semblance of normalcy, the provinces in Canada are still tracking down people who supported the protests in Ottawa in 2022. They are still charging banks with the duty of freezing the bank accounts of people who's names have come to light for sending financial aid..even $20..to the protesters.
One man had a call from a bank employee late on a Friday warning him the bank had decided he wasn't someone they would do business with because of his part in the protests and speaking out against the government. They were going to seize his accounts on the coming Monday. The employee felt he couldn't in good conscience allow it to happen without giving the man a chance to move his accounts to another institution.
All these institutions, know full well they are run by the most corrupt governing bodies. Woke-ism has taken over these institutions, and our schools and city councils.
Where do we go for help now?
Still, so few are listening as they don't believe it effects thier lives.
I apologize for this written rant. I'm feeling overwhelmed today by the enormity of the situation so many communities are finding themselves in.
This type of fantasy does not belong on this site. Public policy trumps crazy religious practice every time. We don't let churches endorse the rape of children no matter what their "magic book says." That what the founders wanted free practice of religions within the context of legal behavior.
This kind of junk thinking does not belong on this siite. We live in a civil society. The government can pass laws that prohibit the free practice of religion. Churches can't engage in child abuse, ritualist rape or any other practice that violates public policy. This is long settled why are we even giving it hearing
It's fair to say that there is no one factor that accounts for all the differences. It's a complex, multivariable problem and looking at any one aspect in isolation isn't going to tell the whole story.
In regards to masks, we know that flu deaths were significantly lower than normal during the peak Covid period...
https://www.cdc.gov/flu/about/burden/past-seasons.html
This should not be surprising since the same tools used to slow the spread of Covid were going to be effective against the flu. Masks and lockdowns were the two primary tools used. From this it seems evident that they are in fact effective, at least against the flu. Even the early strains of Covid were of course more contagious than the flu, but it doesn't make sense to me that masks and lockdowns would have zero impact on Covid when some combination of the two had such a profound impact on flu deaths (and it seems reasonable to assume, transmission rates).
Suffice it to say, that any study that claims little to no impact from lockdowns and masks is highly suspect in my eyes. It just doesn't make sense both due to the argument I made in the paragraph above and because I've looked at some of the raw data, in particular the San Francisco Bay area and Los Angeles. The San Francisco Bay area was the first or near first in the country to impose lockdowns. Los Angeles followed a couple of weeks later. Los Angeles saw far more deaths per capita from Covid in the early going than San Francisco.
On the topic of New York, I've heard that New York city had the subways running at full capacity due to fewer trains running during the early days of the pandemic. Which in turn led to many more infections and thus deaths than would have happened otherwise.
All fake. Those that took off the mask and were unvaccinated did not get sick and found out that our government was lying to us. It only killed a few people, and they would have died from the flu anyway...except for the Governors that put infected patients in nursing homes.
If it was "safe" to take your mask of while eating (at the French Laundry!) it was safe to take it off while praying. My orthodox Jewish 'minyan" which operates on the down-low in people's houses never stopped meeting. (We did have services in the backyard weather permitting instead of indoors.) Nobody got sick.
What government did to people during covid under the umbrella of public safety was disgraceful. It may have started with good intention but quickly turned into dictates and threats. Remember this people and don’t let it happen again.
Too bad the Silicon Valley authorities didn't spend less time regulating their churches and more time regulating their banks.
What an important reminder of what we were forced to live through! I actually forgot all of this. How? I think it was just too much to remember. I hope Calvary Church prevails.
What was done to us in the name of public health was abusive and tragic.
We are still being told to fear "religious fascism".
history is rife with governments of any stripe
Harassing religion which does not bend the knee to Government before God.
Yawn....
The Cochrane review (Gold Standard RCT)validates the total uselessness of masking to prevent transmission or infection, including N95s. , and has been known for at least a century .Why can’t the County admit they were wrong? The hypocrisy of some leftists is appalling. Ok for me not for thee.
Sorry. The Cochrane does not do testing. They select and compile the work of other researchers. If you read the Cochrane report on mask trials you would see that they”... could find no evidence that masks work.” That’s not the same as finding that “masks do not work.” Read the section of the report titled: “Main Results.” ( Don’t worry, it’s on the first page.) There you will find these two statements: First, ”Adherence with interventions was low in many studies.” Second, “The risk of bias for the RCTs and Cluster-RCTs was mostly high or unclear.” I’m always surprised at how many people cite this “study” ( I put it in quotes because it’s actually NOT A STUDY. At best, it’s a study of some (selected) studies.) You cannot do a Random Clinical Trial, or a Cluster-Random Clinical Trial, on masks. It’s not feasible. The random part, in a golden clinical trial, is double-blind. You CANNOT do a double-blind test of a mask. One, unknown, group gets the “Intervention” (the ‘real’ mask, while the other group gets a ‘placebo’ mask. That’s the golden standard trial. So, tell me, “What the hell is a “placebo mask?” Do you specially manufacturer masks that look like the real thing but are “guaranteed” to not work? Get real. There is no clinical evidence because there’s no way to test masks in a CRT or Cluster-CRT fashion. Don’t just repeat the same ‘ol’ crap; do your own research. If someone slings a lot of crap without any real facts their claims are based on crap; if you believe them because the other person said so, your ideas are also based on the same crappy thinking. You can’t get good fruit from a rotten tree. You could try doing a Google search of your own...
Meta Studies are useful in analysis. Not every study is a lab experiment. Studies are are statistical investigations.
Agreed. All I was saying is that a meta study is only as good as the studies it is built upon. RCTs and Cluster-RCTs of masks are extremely, if not completely, difficult to control. Even Cochrane admits problems with “low compliance” and “high or unclear” bias. Either of these would be anathema to ANY study. Both at the same time...? Down in flames. Garbage in, garbage out... If a person wants respect for their opinion they need to do their OWN research into the topic, whatever that may be. DON’T BE A LEMMING!
I'm willing to concede low compliance, chin diapers, and dirty masks worn for 4 weeks consecutively may compromise the optimum efficacy of masks. One might even posit an entire nation attempting to be precise with a flimsy piece of cloth would pose inherit problems. I'm unconvinced the default assumption should be to force citizens, children, all health care workers, to where cloth masks for 3 years. I hope Cochrane recovers from your devastating take down.
I think if you're in the business of fining people for hugs, then you can safely say that you're the bad guys.
April 2020, a rainy weekday in Ocean City, MD, winter population 2,000, when there were so few visitors in town that most of the traffic signals were turned to flash, I requested permission from St. Peter's Lutheran Church to cross their empty lobby to access the columbarium in which the remains of both my parents are housed. I could not access the outdoor columbarium via the outside path due to construction. I stated that, while I was fully vaccinated, I was aware of the mandate for masking indoors, and I would comply. I was FLATLY DENIED entry into an empty building, alone, off season, for no reason. I asked how they could possibly justify this, and received a lot of ridiculous gobbledegook about safety in reply. I reminded them that the Church was supposed to minister to all, even the lepers, and I was not asking anyone to risk life or health to let me cross the church lobby. I was still denied, despite my vaccinated status and willingness to comply with local regulations. I advised them that their cowardice was repugnant, and reminded them that the local hospital, the hospital where I worked, and every other hospital and most doctors offices (mine included) in the country remained open, providing services well beyond crisis care. I was met not just with indifference, but active hostility, for attempting to disturb their leisure in their denial of their duties. This is the type of church whose congregants need a Calvary Chapel. The church that denies congregants the most basic of ministries out of fear will die.
I didn't know this was happening in the US too. Thankyou for the heads up Heather. Things here in Canada have been happening pretty much in sync with the worst counties in California.
In Western Canada, churches have been burned and no efforts made to make any arrests. Yet they have hounded and continually imprisoned a certain pastor in Alberta for keeping his church open since the mandates began in 2020. When they chained the church doors he held parking lot services that attracted many hundreds, even in -20° weather. Some parishioners had to park on the shoulders of the highway. When they jailed him the first time the RCMP built a chain link fence around the church property. They used the parking lot for RCMP vehicles and the church itself as a rural office.
Every time they released him he would hold services wherever he was able. He has continued to support the truckers protesting the mandates that were destroying our jobs and businesses. He most recently spent 6 months, I believe, in jail for speaking out against the Woke and the continuing persecution of people who protested the draconian mandates of 2020, 2021 and 2022. He isn't the only pastor that has suffered for the rights of the people. In Ontario, the provinces police and Healthcare system first targeted the most vulnerable, secluded people, the Amish, shutting down thier churches and fining thier communities for singing while congregating. In one community the entire population stood against the OPP and said they wouldn't stand down, that they would have thier church services regardless. To my knowledge they are the only successful community to do so without caving to the mandates and pressure.
To give this perspective as we all still struggle to regain some semblance of normalcy, the provinces in Canada are still tracking down people who supported the protests in Ottawa in 2022. They are still charging banks with the duty of freezing the bank accounts of people who's names have come to light for sending financial aid..even $20..to the protesters.
One man had a call from a bank employee late on a Friday warning him the bank had decided he wasn't someone they would do business with because of his part in the protests and speaking out against the government. They were going to seize his accounts on the coming Monday. The employee felt he couldn't in good conscience allow it to happen without giving the man a chance to move his accounts to another institution.
All these institutions, know full well they are run by the most corrupt governing bodies. Woke-ism has taken over these institutions, and our schools and city councils.
Where do we go for help now?
Still, so few are listening as they don't believe it effects thier lives.
I apologize for this written rant. I'm feeling overwhelmed today by the enormity of the situation so many communities are finding themselves in.
A study in leading by courageous example. May their community continue to flourish ❤️