jesus it is impossible to search for video moments I want to share (in this case the original promise from Batya to Brianna to stand with her in the event that real threats to her rights arose–or course that leaves open the question of what exactly are trans rights or really civil rights that extend to the trans aspect, and that was hardly fleshed out; but I do believe that the expression was a serious commitment to blunt the overswing of the pendulum that posed actual harm that Batya could take cognizance of, should that occur.)
it took me half hour going back and forth between youtube and thefp.com to even find an episode with batya-ungar sargon and brianna wu that still had an open comment thread.
when you search batya-ungar sargon you only get things she has written. you need a function to be able to choose the media you want to search and transcripts of video should be a choice. At least you sort of sort that stuff which Substack sucks at – apparently spending all their time tamping down young staffers offended by free speech and not making their platform very useable.
Still, after hours of searching election night coverage and other co-appearances i managed to find Brianna referring to the promise here:
Here Brianna is beginning to question whether Batya was keeping the promise in the wake of executive orders dismantling various trans-friendly/affirming policies. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with that representation; but I want to find the original promise and it is unfindable. I know I heard it, but I cannot find it, if anyone recalls which occasion it was and where in the podcast and hopefully has a link I would appreciate it.
final digital bugbear, you need a share from or timestamp feature on your audio/video. it is inconceivable that your message will reach even other subscribers nevermind potential subscribers or open minded people if those of us who listen to entire episodes cannot easily share links that start at the relevant point. youtube has such a function. It is a little clunky but the best in the industry. what a sham that there is not simply a pop up to put in a time signature for sharing (or for that matter for restarting replay at the point you want to listen to instead of trying to use the useless sliders of the 15 or 30 second rewind.). lay off the politics long enough to get the platform right :-)
I want to respond to Brianna’s concern for social wellbeing of Trans people. First, an apology on behalf of my behavioral health colleagues who failed to develop a respectful and biologically honest language for Trans adults.
Second, as a biologist - I am comfortable with a person who says “I am Trans”. It is the statement that follows, that has been problematic. For example-“I am the opposite sex” or “I was born in the wrong body.” Instead of those biologically impossible statements, I propose “I was born male and I am Trans. I am mentally aligned with females and I want to surgically reduce the biological effect of my make sex at birth so as to embark on a journey to explore the female realm.” According to liberal principles; one can be male and explore femininity.
I'm sorry to have to say this, Ms. Sargon is such an intoxicated fan-girl, it's hard to take her seriously. Really, trying to take away birthright citizenship is OK and it's actually the fault of the Dems? Good grief.
If your main concern is the assault on police officers on Jan 6, what about the assault on officers that lasted for several months on a daily basis during the George Floyd protests! Nightly looting, violence, assault on police and others, Molotov cocktails tossed at police. Government buildings set on fire. How many of those protesters were rounded up and put in jail??
Generally, I enjoy feeling challenged by different perspectives on this podcast. However, the conversation in the January 6th insurrectionists emphasizes how folks still live in different worlds. I watched the insurrection live while it happened and frankly am shocked at the lack of recognition on this podcast for what those people did and what that day represented. Even if you agree with their cause or sympathize because some people didn’t really know what they were getting into, the fact remained the mob’s intent was to stop the certification of a presidential election that Biden won. The fact remains that people showed up wanting to hang the vice president, or are we to believe they found all of that wood to make a gallows just lying around the Mall? The fact remains that the mob broke into the capitol, broke into offices, broke into chambers, while members of Congress and their staffers had to hide. It was a shameful day that put the basic mechanisms of democracy at risk and led to the death of five law enforcement officers. The people in the mob rightfully were prosecuted and should not have been pardoned or had their sentences commuted. Just because folks may think, well, Biden and his people didn’t always follow the law, doesn’t mean law breakers at work for the other party should get away with their serious crimes. In fact, I can believe at the same time that Biden and his staff made mistakes and may have abused their power and STILL believe that January 6th was an insurrection that was premeditated, dangerous, and illegal. I found the nonchalant tone of the conversation to be shocking and demonstrative of the tendency in the US today to look the other way when it’s our side breaking the law but go full tilt when we believe the other side has broken the law. I’d like to see the FP do what it says it does, which is to be the adult in the room and step above the fray. The conversation instead highlighted that there continues to be an unwillingness on the right to see that day for what it was. If democrats had attacked the capitol trying to stop the certification of Trump’s election, I do not think I would have heard the tone and minimizing language that we heard today.
This was a great episode, but I have one suggestion for Batya Ungar-Sargon. Ms. Ungar-Sargon often supports her opinions with a statement like, "what American people want is...". There is no way anyone can reasonably make that statement. It is true that more people wanted Trump to be president than those who wanted Harris. But, for example, how many people know what a department IG does, much less have an opinion on what should be done with them? With respect to pardoning of the J6 rioters, does it matter if lots of people get comfort in releasing violent criminals?(Attacking police officers is just one of the acts of violent acts that we all saw on TV over and over). Is that the way justice gets dispensed in the USA? We take an opinion poll?
i do think it is pretty relevant to refer to polls with a relatively overwhelming signal which is often what I have seen Batya do. There may be moments when her invocation of the will of the American people reduces to instinct and not consensus or relies on the election itself which says who gets to implement public policy for a while but was close enough to make reference to what the american people want in that context a plausible overstatement (albeit given the extent to which mainstream media and the professional managerial class trashed trump and effectively forced anyone who wanted to be accepted in elite or academic society into the anti-trump camp I can't blame a populist for that attitude).
That doesn't mean that polls are the same as electoral refernda or that you act on those populist imperatives in undemocratic, or I should say unrepublican (small consonants on purpose) ways. one can argue about observation of separation of powers and stare decisis not only of court opinions but that built into the administrative state and executvie hiring and firing. But I think you can legimately discuss broad popular mood. If she misinterprets or conveniently elides the poll question, fine, pushback. But I do think she tries to be informed about the current of public opinion and I may or may not agree every time that phrase excapes her lips, but it is not so frequent or offbase as to be offputting to yours truly.
So as a Normie that's part of the 80% that Batya mentions that thinks trans people should be let alone, generally speaking, I have a question for some of the folks here. And it's this.
If you believe that there are inherent brain differences between male and female brains, do you consider that on quite rare occasions there could be a mismatch between the brain and the body? If not, why not*, and if so, what would you suggest might be an approach for those people?
*I'd speculate in utero hormones could affect brain development one way and body development another. It could happen.
I think Trump wants the 14th amendment question to be weighed in on by the Supreme Court. He absolutely had to know that lawsuits would be filed and there is no other explanation, especially when you consider how immigrant-friendly his cabinet and appointments have been.
Regarding the pardoning of even those folks who assaulted police officers: I read in some other comments FROM actual police officers a take that goes like this: in their work, their line of duty, most people that they have seen get charged with assaulting a police officer 'get off' or get a minimal sentence. The four years that the Jan 6 people have already spent in the justice system and if I am not mistaken, actually in custody, is already far and beyond what most similar crimes would result in had this even not been so subject to 'lawfare'. In light of this, if this was taken into consideration, the blanket pardon might even make some judicial sense.
I’m so sorry for Brianna and what he’s been though but Brianna wants what he wants. He’s not an athlete or a man attracted to women so he fine with keep other Trans people out of sport and protecting “lesbian spaces.” What about the rest of the women on earth? We still have to share our spaces with him. Sorry no. I’m so disappointed he’s going to be in the podcast EVERY week. Just because he is mentally ill does not mean the rest of womankind has to accommodate him and men like him. There is no way to say oh he’s so reasonable, he can come in the ladies. He can be locked up with some poor woman. I dont care if he played with Barbie’s as a kid. There’s no line to draw between him and the less special Trans ppl who want to come in the ladies room with my daughters. Sorry. His problem is just his ..not ours to erase women’s spaces. I’m kind of offended he’s on a panel week after week with someone as wonderful and not mentally ill as Batya.
Honestly, dismissing Brianna because of identity is just the flip side of what the left wants - accepting people because of their identity. Let's not do that and be part of that ridiculous cult of intersectionality even as a rebuttal. Let's listen to people for their ideas. If Brianna says that it's reasonable to protect women's spaces from people who hide behind a trans declaration to gain access to locker rooms, shelters, and prisons, but also reasonable for the government to recognize people who have actually transitioned...that's a nuanced position. You can respond to what is actually said rather than dismissing a viewpoint as invalid because they are trans.
If you disagree, disagree on the merits. Don't end up at the same kind of idiotic standoff we're at with everything else.
If trans truly is the bankrupt and insidious ideology that many of us have come to fear, we should be able to argue against it on firmer grounds than 'trans = mentally ill."
Peter's comments about Trump's "lack" of leadership in his early acts affirm one of the basic differences in Democrat and Republican expectations: Peter apparently believes politicians should say whatever it takes to get elected, then switch/expose their true intent when in office: conservatives believe politicians should state their beliefs & intentions while running for office, then follow-through...exactly as Trump did. Another example of the public finally seeing through liberal obfuscation.
The year is 2027. President Trump has just announced plans to nuke Belgium, build a wall around Colorado, and retroactively pardon John Wayne Gacy, Jeffrey Dahmer, and Jack the Ripper.
Batya Ungar Sargon: I actually think this is brilliant, President Trump is really showing great leadership, millions of Americans voted for him so nuking Belgium is clearly a consensus issue . . . . .
Wow. This is one cynical comment thread. The beginning few comments chill me to my bones with their intolerant, bigoted vibe.
I really enjoyed this conversation. I would have loved to hear more from Peter. Brianna has a brilliant mind. Batya took up a lot of the talking time which was tedious but I really enjoyed the dynamic. I listened on my headphones after work and laughed out loud more than once with genuine delight. Thanks to everyone for their perspectives.
Also, Melania as a gay icon is inevitable. It has already begun.
I am not going to change anyone’s opinion. I heard a conversation here where participants discussed and disagreed, thanks TFP. I am relieved at some of the trump actions and, expect overreach like birthright citizenship to be shot down by justice system. Definitely relieved that Biden/Harris overreach and abuse of the justice system are being challenged. Including the Elon salute thing was non serious fluff; the degree that some in comments took it seriously was kind of shocking. As if the same guy who gets up on stage, jumps around and flails about is somehow invoking Hitler?
I really love these conversations. It shows that's it's possible for different people to have honest respectful conversations about complex issues and disagree with each other without going insane. I find myself agreeing with everyone at different times, except Peter. I don't think we agree on much, lol.
jesus it is impossible to search for video moments I want to share (in this case the original promise from Batya to Brianna to stand with her in the event that real threats to her rights arose–or course that leaves open the question of what exactly are trans rights or really civil rights that extend to the trans aspect, and that was hardly fleshed out; but I do believe that the expression was a serious commitment to blunt the overswing of the pendulum that posed actual harm that Batya could take cognizance of, should that occur.)
it took me half hour going back and forth between youtube and thefp.com to even find an episode with batya-ungar sargon and brianna wu that still had an open comment thread.
when you search batya-ungar sargon you only get things she has written. you need a function to be able to choose the media you want to search and transcripts of video should be a choice. At least you sort of sort that stuff which Substack sucks at – apparently spending all their time tamping down young staffers offended by free speech and not making their platform very useable.
Still, after hours of searching election night coverage and other co-appearances i managed to find Brianna referring to the promise here:
https://youtu.be/n1ZCEsgpqmE?t=422
Here Brianna is beginning to question whether Batya was keeping the promise in the wake of executive orders dismantling various trans-friendly/affirming policies. I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with that representation; but I want to find the original promise and it is unfindable. I know I heard it, but I cannot find it, if anyone recalls which occasion it was and where in the podcast and hopefully has a link I would appreciate it.
final digital bugbear, you need a share from or timestamp feature on your audio/video. it is inconceivable that your message will reach even other subscribers nevermind potential subscribers or open minded people if those of us who listen to entire episodes cannot easily share links that start at the relevant point. youtube has such a function. It is a little clunky but the best in the industry. what a sham that there is not simply a pop up to put in a time signature for sharing (or for that matter for restarting replay at the point you want to listen to instead of trying to use the useless sliders of the 15 or 30 second rewind.). lay off the politics long enough to get the platform right :-)
I want to respond to Brianna’s concern for social wellbeing of Trans people. First, an apology on behalf of my behavioral health colleagues who failed to develop a respectful and biologically honest language for Trans adults.
Second, as a biologist - I am comfortable with a person who says “I am Trans”. It is the statement that follows, that has been problematic. For example-“I am the opposite sex” or “I was born in the wrong body.” Instead of those biologically impossible statements, I propose “I was born male and I am Trans. I am mentally aligned with females and I want to surgically reduce the biological effect of my make sex at birth so as to embark on a journey to explore the female realm.” According to liberal principles; one can be male and explore femininity.
I'm sorry to have to say this, Ms. Sargon is such an intoxicated fan-girl, it's hard to take her seriously. Really, trying to take away birthright citizenship is OK and it's actually the fault of the Dems? Good grief.
If your main concern is the assault on police officers on Jan 6, what about the assault on officers that lasted for several months on a daily basis during the George Floyd protests! Nightly looting, violence, assault on police and others, Molotov cocktails tossed at police. Government buildings set on fire. How many of those protesters were rounded up and put in jail??
Generally, I enjoy feeling challenged by different perspectives on this podcast. However, the conversation in the January 6th insurrectionists emphasizes how folks still live in different worlds. I watched the insurrection live while it happened and frankly am shocked at the lack of recognition on this podcast for what those people did and what that day represented. Even if you agree with their cause or sympathize because some people didn’t really know what they were getting into, the fact remained the mob’s intent was to stop the certification of a presidential election that Biden won. The fact remains that people showed up wanting to hang the vice president, or are we to believe they found all of that wood to make a gallows just lying around the Mall? The fact remains that the mob broke into the capitol, broke into offices, broke into chambers, while members of Congress and their staffers had to hide. It was a shameful day that put the basic mechanisms of democracy at risk and led to the death of five law enforcement officers. The people in the mob rightfully were prosecuted and should not have been pardoned or had their sentences commuted. Just because folks may think, well, Biden and his people didn’t always follow the law, doesn’t mean law breakers at work for the other party should get away with their serious crimes. In fact, I can believe at the same time that Biden and his staff made mistakes and may have abused their power and STILL believe that January 6th was an insurrection that was premeditated, dangerous, and illegal. I found the nonchalant tone of the conversation to be shocking and demonstrative of the tendency in the US today to look the other way when it’s our side breaking the law but go full tilt when we believe the other side has broken the law. I’d like to see the FP do what it says it does, which is to be the adult in the room and step above the fray. The conversation instead highlighted that there continues to be an unwillingness on the right to see that day for what it was. If democrats had attacked the capitol trying to stop the certification of Trump’s election, I do not think I would have heard the tone and minimizing language that we heard today.
This was a great episode, but I have one suggestion for Batya Ungar-Sargon. Ms. Ungar-Sargon often supports her opinions with a statement like, "what American people want is...". There is no way anyone can reasonably make that statement. It is true that more people wanted Trump to be president than those who wanted Harris. But, for example, how many people know what a department IG does, much less have an opinion on what should be done with them? With respect to pardoning of the J6 rioters, does it matter if lots of people get comfort in releasing violent criminals?(Attacking police officers is just one of the acts of violent acts that we all saw on TV over and over). Is that the way justice gets dispensed in the USA? We take an opinion poll?
i do think it is pretty relevant to refer to polls with a relatively overwhelming signal which is often what I have seen Batya do. There may be moments when her invocation of the will of the American people reduces to instinct and not consensus or relies on the election itself which says who gets to implement public policy for a while but was close enough to make reference to what the american people want in that context a plausible overstatement (albeit given the extent to which mainstream media and the professional managerial class trashed trump and effectively forced anyone who wanted to be accepted in elite or academic society into the anti-trump camp I can't blame a populist for that attitude).
That doesn't mean that polls are the same as electoral refernda or that you act on those populist imperatives in undemocratic, or I should say unrepublican (small consonants on purpose) ways. one can argue about observation of separation of powers and stare decisis not only of court opinions but that built into the administrative state and executvie hiring and firing. But I think you can legimately discuss broad popular mood. If she misinterprets or conveniently elides the poll question, fine, pushback. But I do think she tries to be informed about the current of public opinion and I may or may not agree every time that phrase excapes her lips, but it is not so frequent or offbase as to be offputting to yours truly.
So as a Normie that's part of the 80% that Batya mentions that thinks trans people should be let alone, generally speaking, I have a question for some of the folks here. And it's this.
If you believe that there are inherent brain differences between male and female brains, do you consider that on quite rare occasions there could be a mismatch between the brain and the body? If not, why not*, and if so, what would you suggest might be an approach for those people?
*I'd speculate in utero hormones could affect brain development one way and body development another. It could happen.
Bari, please, please, please interview Brandon Straka for a correct perspective on J6 prosecutions and pardons.
I think Trump wants the 14th amendment question to be weighed in on by the Supreme Court. He absolutely had to know that lawsuits would be filed and there is no other explanation, especially when you consider how immigrant-friendly his cabinet and appointments have been.
Regarding the pardoning of even those folks who assaulted police officers: I read in some other comments FROM actual police officers a take that goes like this: in their work, their line of duty, most people that they have seen get charged with assaulting a police officer 'get off' or get a minimal sentence. The four years that the Jan 6 people have already spent in the justice system and if I am not mistaken, actually in custody, is already far and beyond what most similar crimes would result in had this even not been so subject to 'lawfare'. In light of this, if this was taken into consideration, the blanket pardon might even make some judicial sense.
I’m so sorry for Brianna and what he’s been though but Brianna wants what he wants. He’s not an athlete or a man attracted to women so he fine with keep other Trans people out of sport and protecting “lesbian spaces.” What about the rest of the women on earth? We still have to share our spaces with him. Sorry no. I’m so disappointed he’s going to be in the podcast EVERY week. Just because he is mentally ill does not mean the rest of womankind has to accommodate him and men like him. There is no way to say oh he’s so reasonable, he can come in the ladies. He can be locked up with some poor woman. I dont care if he played with Barbie’s as a kid. There’s no line to draw between him and the less special Trans ppl who want to come in the ladies room with my daughters. Sorry. His problem is just his ..not ours to erase women’s spaces. I’m kind of offended he’s on a panel week after week with someone as wonderful and not mentally ill as Batya.
Honestly, dismissing Brianna because of identity is just the flip side of what the left wants - accepting people because of their identity. Let's not do that and be part of that ridiculous cult of intersectionality even as a rebuttal. Let's listen to people for their ideas. If Brianna says that it's reasonable to protect women's spaces from people who hide behind a trans declaration to gain access to locker rooms, shelters, and prisons, but also reasonable for the government to recognize people who have actually transitioned...that's a nuanced position. You can respond to what is actually said rather than dismissing a viewpoint as invalid because they are trans.
If you disagree, disagree on the merits. Don't end up at the same kind of idiotic standoff we're at with everything else.
If trans truly is the bankrupt and insidious ideology that many of us have come to fear, we should be able to argue against it on firmer grounds than 'trans = mentally ill."
Peter's comments about Trump's "lack" of leadership in his early acts affirm one of the basic differences in Democrat and Republican expectations: Peter apparently believes politicians should say whatever it takes to get elected, then switch/expose their true intent when in office: conservatives believe politicians should state their beliefs & intentions while running for office, then follow-through...exactly as Trump did. Another example of the public finally seeing through liberal obfuscation.
The year is 2027. President Trump has just announced plans to nuke Belgium, build a wall around Colorado, and retroactively pardon John Wayne Gacy, Jeffrey Dahmer, and Jack the Ripper.
Batya Ungar Sargon: I actually think this is brilliant, President Trump is really showing great leadership, millions of Americans voted for him so nuking Belgium is clearly a consensus issue . . . . .
Wow. This is one cynical comment thread. The beginning few comments chill me to my bones with their intolerant, bigoted vibe.
I really enjoyed this conversation. I would have loved to hear more from Peter. Brianna has a brilliant mind. Batya took up a lot of the talking time which was tedious but I really enjoyed the dynamic. I listened on my headphones after work and laughed out loud more than once with genuine delight. Thanks to everyone for their perspectives.
Also, Melania as a gay icon is inevitable. It has already begun.
I am not going to change anyone’s opinion. I heard a conversation here where participants discussed and disagreed, thanks TFP. I am relieved at some of the trump actions and, expect overreach like birthright citizenship to be shot down by justice system. Definitely relieved that Biden/Harris overreach and abuse of the justice system are being challenged. Including the Elon salute thing was non serious fluff; the degree that some in comments took it seriously was kind of shocking. As if the same guy who gets up on stage, jumps around and flails about is somehow invoking Hitler?
I really love these conversations. It shows that's it's possible for different people to have honest respectful conversations about complex issues and disagree with each other without going insane. I find myself agreeing with everyone at different times, except Peter. I don't think we agree on much, lol.