I think it is worth emphasizing the profit seeking motive on the part of the Gazan elites. First, those in the know were able to financially profit by short selling relevant stocks. Second, they are able to siphon off some percentage of the aid money being sent to Gaza. Finally, they are already calling through their paid agents for multinational money to rebuild Gaza, after a war they planned, funded and approved as business opportunity. They likely own most of the land in Gaza, and will own the properties that are built with other people's money on them. That's smart if sociopathic business.
What Israel needs to fully grasp and factor into its calculations is the fact that these people, who live in Qatar and Turkey and London and presumably elsewhere (anywhere they like!!!) are the main reason peace is impossible. They fund the propaganda that is fed to young Arab refugee grandchildren and greatgrandchildren, which is functionally identical to that which animated the Hitler Youth and Nazis generally.
The war which matters exists in the public perceptions of people in the West. As long as they support this entrepreneurialism via mass murder--it's worth noting that in my understanding the humble appearing Yassir Arafat died worth a billion dollars or more--by hallucinating a moral element that simply is not present to sane minds, it is sure to continue. What is rewarded persists, and parroting the words "Palestinian", and that they have a right to kill all the Jews in Israel (latent but not stated) constitutes reward.
Pondering this a bit more (I often write something, go get another cup of coffee, read something, then "circle back"), the strategy that could work would be figuring out how to make peace profitable for the elites who are running all this on the Arab side.
Paying them off, obviously, is a non-starter, I think, because that amounts to giving in to extortion. But something structural, something investment and ROI oriented. It's perhaps an obscene idea, but what about perhaps offering them stock in some Israeli companies at a discount, so they make money when Israel is doing well? That likely isn't the worst idea that will be proposed on the internet today.
Certainly, I think a lot of these people GENUINELY hate Israel and the Jews, even if they don't also love their own people, since they are plainly content to see them killed in large numbers. But I suspect most of them love money more than they hate Jews. In that likely fact there may be some potentially fruitful ideas.
Now, it is a truism that armchair generals discuss strategy while the pro's discuss logistics, so this idea may not be usable. But it may. This is not an element I see often discussed. I just see it said that the Arab refugees hate Jews. This is true. But they are taught to hate Jews, and could be taught to live in peace with them also, in their own interest and that of their children and grandchildren.
SodaStream is an Israel-based producer of home carbonation products.
They had a large facility which employed about 50% Palestinians, providing these Palestinians wages far above Palestinian average with good working conditions. Many Palestinians were in management roles. The bds folks killed this facility, putting 500 Palestinians out of a good job.
I'd suggested an alternative. Create a Palestinian-based version of SodaStream using the Palestinian labor which lost jobs. Allow them to market to the Islamic states, using SodaStream designs, R&D, etc. Create incentives which benefit both Palestinian business and Israeli support for the Palestinian business.
There are plenty of win-win approaches. Bigots get in the way, insisting on lose-lose instead.
But has there been a situation in history that mirrors the conflict that is happening now? Gaza will run out of room quickly with the population expansion.
I like consideration of creative solutions. But at first blush I see problems with this. What would prevent them from taking over Israeli the companies? For that matter, what stops them from using their ill-gotten gains from buying Israeli stock now? The Musk Model if you will.
On a slightly different note I read an article recently that water companies here in the states had been hacked and warned that any company using Israeli components were subject to cyber attacks.
I lack the information to be specific, but not only is the idea that it is best to attack alliances, motivations and resources as old as Sun Tzu, the ability of the Arab refugees to do so effectively has not only enabled them to make bank since the original war which created the refugees, but to do so without most "Palestinians" being the wiser.
Honestly, it's a bit like our own "War on Terrorism". We the American people were manipulated into writing an essentially blank check to the Military-Industrial Complex, and failed almost entirely to notice that the trillions we spent were largely wasted. Certainly, the Left screamed about it at the time, but they have since decided that war is good. It's been comical watching them cite Chamberlain, as I myself did in 2001, when I still believed the official narrative.
Whenever you can get strong emotions involved, particularly the protective instincts of men, you can get people to stop thinking rationally, to stop seeing what is in front of them, and to stop pursuing their own objective best interest.
Peace has LONG been in the best interest of the "Palestinians" as a whole. It is simply not in the interest of the people who control them. And I don't think Americans are all that different. I supported all our wars, at length and for years. It wasn't until I started thinking carefully about 9/11 around 2010 that I started feeling a vague nausea that has only increased since.
I have a similar trajectory. Oddly this notion that peace is in the best interest of Palestinians is comforting in that we are in the same boat - being sold a bill of goods by those we count on to govern in our best interests.
Edited to add: this also explains why capitalism must be destroyed by those who wish us ill.
The irony is that the most dangerous opponents of “Capitalism” are precisely the power elites that Communism is supposed to combat. But they have coopted the actual power dynamic, enlisted fools to help them realize what they think they oppose, and are treating the only remaining true Liberal as criminals.
> Gaza must be internationalized. It must no longer be an Israeli problem or even an Israeli-Egyptian problem, but the responsibility of the international community, above all the United States.
The United States is literally on the other side of the world. Also, is that something Israel would be supportive of? I get the impression that Israel wants to deal with problems inside (or near) their borders, and wants US aid only as far as it helps them achieve their own goals; they don't want to cede sovereignty to a foreign power.
Internationalization makes sense. The problem is a global one, why should tiny Israel bear full responsibility for managing it? Gaza is a fuse that can ignite a bomb labeled WWIII. Certainly as long as other countries ignore the problem, it will continue to fester, and Hamas and Iran will continue their despicable ways. The future of the world is at stake here, it's not just a minor regional conflict between two enemies. One side wants to live in peace and prosperity, the other side is hell bent on destroying everything western. Israel is just the first step toward that goal. This is an existential problem for the modern world.
Jonathan Miller, Gaza is ALREADY "internationalized"! The fact that the world body of the UN is consistently against Israel displays what "internationalizing" Gaza looks like. The REAL underlying problem is Iran. Deal with THAT issue and we may see resolution in Gaza.
Precisely. If the UN is given any responsibility in the administration of a future Gaza we will return to the status quo ante. The UN has no value to the citizens of the world. It is in the hands of the globalists and one-world authoritarians and needs to go.
The "Palestinian" issue - the conflict between Jews and Arabs in the land of Israel - long predates the Islamic dictatorship in Iran. From this, I think we can conclude that, while Iran's involvement is a significant element, it cannot be "the root."
Correct but just as to modern "Iran". The root is in their ancestors. Oddly enough I think it is Iran's slavish devotion thereto that prevents them from being truly modern.
An international solution would require agreement on an.international scale. That does not exist. So to internationalize Gaza is just kicking the can down the road.
"Internationalizing" Gaza? Mph! Excuse ME, I just snorted my coffee through my nose! Just look at the UN Assembly. How many nations are actual friends of Israel? And how many have consistently voted AGAINST Israel in the past? THERE! You have your answer about "nationalizing" Gaza. It would be a ludicrous suggestion if it were made by crackpot dictators, but for the supposedly rational leaders of the world it is just fiction. My solution would be to leave the area a wasteland and let the inhabitants migrate elsewhere. They will "internationalize" themselves! Is this merciless? Yes, it IS! But to whom does one show mercy? Those who suffer, but are willing to change their state of being, and THAT is not the "palestinians" who live, breath, and eat their hatred of Israel. Leave it a wasteland!
Ironically, Palestinians need neglect. Time for them to get their act together without "help". Turns out, "help" is not what it seems. Palestinians are constantly being manipulated by their "friends" who prefer to see them in constant conflict.
I agree! There IS no "international community", but there IS an international MOB, the members of which are only motivated by their own self-interests! But one common denominator that they DO have is their hate for Israel.
Maybe Mr. Oren has a vision of the composition of the "international community" he imagines and an explanation of how it has the authority and ability to construct the peaceable Gaza of his dreams.
Cynthia Yes, and it would have to be a fantasy as large as the one I just read here. As I read further and further, I got more hopeless and more hopeless. Why doesn't Israel just lie to the bastards, then kill them all anyway.
It might be necessary but it would require the creation of a new international body to do so. The UN is nor the answer and arguably has fueled the Arabs we now refer to as Palestinian anarchy. And it is complicit in other misdeeds as well. Like no sanctions against Russia over the invasion of Ukraine because the calls therefor are voted down by Russia. This type of thing is why I resist calls for globalization.
It is very sad that the UN has effectively disqualified itself from playing a useful role. The Israelis have zero reason to trust the UN -- and mountains of reason to distrust it.
Not the other side of the world. Israel is much closer than many think. The great-circle distance between New York and Tel Aviv is roughly 5700 miles. This is less than one-quarter of the circumference of the planet, and only about 700 miles greater than the distance between New York and Honolulu. Add in the fact that NATO territories are as close as Greece and Turkey, and Israel reasonably can be considered our geopolitical backyard. This is even before considering the tremendous significance of Suez and the Gulf.
We hear the usual voices shrieking for a ceasefire and crying crocodile tears for the "innocent people of Gaza." Well, if you really care for the people of Gaza you would want to see them freed from the barbarian fiends who oppress them, use them as human shields and continue to make their lives as miserable as possible while indoctrinating their children with an implacable hatred of Israel.
I have said over and over again since this whole thing started that the enemy of the Palestinians is not Israel, the enemy of the Palestinians is Hamas.
Well Mr.Oren you're wrong about other things as well. The best possible outcome would be for the surrounding Arab nations to absorb the so called "Palestinians" into their population. Perhaps some reasearch into why this hasn't happened should begin.
Incidentally are you familiar with how Palestinian is pronounced in Arabic?
Why would any nation run by sane leaders be willing to absorb 2 million people who have been brainwashed into a lethal combination of futility and terrorism? Do you or anyone else really think that all these Gazan folks will suddenly become gentle peace-loving aspiring entrepreneurs if relocated to another country? It will take 20-40 years to reeducate the society and populate it with a new generation of youth with a more peaceful and productive mindset.
Dear Jonathan when my kin have a problem I am bound by blood. I'm obligated. That extends to my people. These people are Arabs. Clearly they have made living within Israel next to impossible for themselves. If I were an Israeli Muslim (which is what they are) I would be out of there they day before yesterday. That's what a sane person would do. If I was an Egyptian and had Israeli Arab kin they would find a home with me. That's what a compassionate person does. I'm not saying the Arabs don't belong in Israel because clearly they do. I'm saying why would you stubbornly stay?
The U.S. should not get involved in the rebuilding of Gaza. Our track record in rebuilding and democratizing other Muslim countries - Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., speaks for itself.
Regardless of your thoughts on this conflict, the idea that it’s the US responsibility to come in and rebuild Gaza and reestablish order (I.e. military occupation) is BANANAS. This guy is literally living in an alternate reality.
We did break it. We're funding Iran, funding the UN, funding a ton of Hamas affiliated NGOs at home and abroad... I don't want US troops in Gaza, however.
By funding Iran, I believe you are referring to unfreezing their money that we had seized. We fund Saudi, should we pay to industrialize Yemen? You know who else was funding Hamas? Israel, from Netanyahu’s mouth directly. Gaza is not the US taxpayers burden.
I don't support our tax dollars funding terrorism, because I don't support terrorism. This is precisely why we have mechanisms in place to limit funds to sanctioned states and peoples. It is simply a matter of enforcing those laws and sanctions we already have in place, which the Biden administration refuses to do. I hope you join me in calling our representatives in the Senate and Congress to uphold our laws and go further by investigating and defunding NGOs that fund terrorism like CAIR.
I am happy for my tax dollars to fund a large pillar of salt where Gaza once stood and nothing else.
Tell me you know nothing about Palestinians without telling me you know nothing about Palestinians... Ask Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, or even Sweden about how mass immigration of Palestinians worked out for them.
Attempting to take the moral high ground while arguing for the slaughter of an entire ethnic group of 2 million people because they are all apparently evil is quite a feat of mental gymnastics
The author’s solution seems like some imagined utopia, but in reality will never happen. Gaza needs to be once again part of Israel, and settled by Israelis. That will be the only way to ensure the safety of her people. Other countries have taken in refugees. There’s no reason why Arab countries shouldn’t take in Arab refugees.
Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Palestinian leaders are motivated by self preservation and greed. Their self preservation means they can never make peace with Israel. If they do, they risk assassination. Their greed means they have to keep their people poor so they can embezzle aid money.
Eliminating Hamas may change the self preservation calculations. It will certainly show Israel is no longer deterred by Palestinian human shield casualties. It may show Palestinians that their role as human shields is not a winning role.
Ultimately, Middle East terrorism is largely funded and supported by Iran. If you want to silence Achmed, The Dead Terrorist, you gag Jeff Dunham, not the dummy. The Iranian Mullahs are very unpopular internally in Iran. Maybe it's time to fund an Iranian revolution.
And, in the aftermath of war, the nations that harbor Hamas terrorists -- Qatar and Turkey for example -- must be exposed, publicly vilified, and punished as outcasts from the civilized world.
What is Hamas? It's a group of BEASTS. Who supports the BEASTS? Most Palestinians support the beasts. Defeating Hamas is a must because the BEASTS are an existential threat not only to Israel but any Western Democracy & most importantly the U.S.; The destruction of Hamas represents merely a respite for Israel. The snake's venomous head lies in Tehran & unless the snake is destroyed world chaos will reign.
This will never end. Nobody reads books anymore. Wars used to end and now they don’t. What changed? Nobody wipes out their opponent anymore.
Rome and Carthage were in multiple wars until Rome ended it. You’ll notice the Nazi party isn’t around any more because we killed Nazi’s all the way back to Berlin. With Japan we had to flatten two cities. The Ottomans sliced through Constantinople and took it over. How did the Mongolians do things again? Oh right....
Since WWII smaller “ armies” avoid overwhelming force by mixing in with civilians. In Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan . etc .etc. The resolve to move in and kill every last person to end the conflict permanently isn’t there.
So, nothing in Gaza will change and Israel will end up fighting the same war over and over again. The proper end to the conflict is expelling the Palestinians to one of their Arab neighbors. The same neighbors who get so upset about the fighting yet seem to have no interest in helping in any meaningful way.
All people in Gaza need to be relocated to Muslim countries far far away. All people in west Bank need to be relocated to jordan. UN red cross and similar need to be relocated. Far far away. Lebanon needs to be resettled as a Christian state- country. All Muslims in Lebanon need to be relocated far far away.
There never will be peace. the Muslims believe convert or die. Just look at how many blacks and Christians the Muslims have killed in Africa. All Christians in Africa can move to Lebanon.
Before any of this utopia can come about, 2 million Gazans must be de-Islamicized. The fastest way to do that is to Christianize them. Replace UNRWA-Hamas schools with nuns. Of course Christianity has its issues with Jews but jihad is not built into it. If we want our neighbors to be peace -loving Scandinavians instead of barbaric Vikings, Christianize them.
Unfortunately the Gaza problem should become the responsibility of the next US president. As things look now it will be an age demented old man surrounded by Obama appointees whose latent anti semitism is responsible for this mess or equally as bad a narcissistic madman who is barely able to stay out of jail. His agenda will just be revenge against his personal enemies. It does not now appear that going forward the US presidency will be in a position to promote peace in Gaza. So that role will fall into the hands of the corrupt anti semites at what is now euphemistically called the United Nations. Heaven help the Israelis and any other small nations that needed the protection of the USA.
Why would this be the responsibility of the US or of a US president? Our own borders are being invaded and overwhelmed. We face the serious rot of fentanyl addiction, woke victimhood, and Tik Tok-crafted mindlessness, and govt-tech censorship that may have already mortally infected our country from within. But your view of the US presidential race does ring a bell...sigh.
Meanwhile, Biden's handlers continue to fund everyone (friend or foe-it matters not), a terrible joke of an effort to stay in favor, racking up ever more impossible taxpayer debt. Btw, Trump did foster the Abraham accord. Pray we get some real leadership.
No question excepting the fact that no one wants to work for him anymore including his son in law. It will be an impossibility to defeat the deep state single hand idly especially if you are fighting tooth and nail to stay out of jail.
Takes too long, but that's the plan for Judea and Samaria. It's obviously worthwhile to the Arabs there, as if they converted to Judaism they would instantly become settlers with all the attendant benefits yet without having to leave home.
I think it is worth emphasizing the profit seeking motive on the part of the Gazan elites. First, those in the know were able to financially profit by short selling relevant stocks. Second, they are able to siphon off some percentage of the aid money being sent to Gaza. Finally, they are already calling through their paid agents for multinational money to rebuild Gaza, after a war they planned, funded and approved as business opportunity. They likely own most of the land in Gaza, and will own the properties that are built with other people's money on them. That's smart if sociopathic business.
What Israel needs to fully grasp and factor into its calculations is the fact that these people, who live in Qatar and Turkey and London and presumably elsewhere (anywhere they like!!!) are the main reason peace is impossible. They fund the propaganda that is fed to young Arab refugee grandchildren and greatgrandchildren, which is functionally identical to that which animated the Hitler Youth and Nazis generally.
The war which matters exists in the public perceptions of people in the West. As long as they support this entrepreneurialism via mass murder--it's worth noting that in my understanding the humble appearing Yassir Arafat died worth a billion dollars or more--by hallucinating a moral element that simply is not present to sane minds, it is sure to continue. What is rewarded persists, and parroting the words "Palestinian", and that they have a right to kill all the Jews in Israel (latent but not stated) constitutes reward.
They also have hundreds of millions of dollars if not billions in investments. The leaders of Hamas are very wealthy. Their assets
Need to be frozen.
Pondering this a bit more (I often write something, go get another cup of coffee, read something, then "circle back"), the strategy that could work would be figuring out how to make peace profitable for the elites who are running all this on the Arab side.
Paying them off, obviously, is a non-starter, I think, because that amounts to giving in to extortion. But something structural, something investment and ROI oriented. It's perhaps an obscene idea, but what about perhaps offering them stock in some Israeli companies at a discount, so they make money when Israel is doing well? That likely isn't the worst idea that will be proposed on the internet today.
Certainly, I think a lot of these people GENUINELY hate Israel and the Jews, even if they don't also love their own people, since they are plainly content to see them killed in large numbers. But I suspect most of them love money more than they hate Jews. In that likely fact there may be some potentially fruitful ideas.
Now, it is a truism that armchair generals discuss strategy while the pro's discuss logistics, so this idea may not be usable. But it may. This is not an element I see often discussed. I just see it said that the Arab refugees hate Jews. This is true. But they are taught to hate Jews, and could be taught to live in peace with them also, in their own interest and that of their children and grandchildren.
SodaStream is an Israel-based producer of home carbonation products.
They had a large facility which employed about 50% Palestinians, providing these Palestinians wages far above Palestinian average with good working conditions. Many Palestinians were in management roles. The bds folks killed this facility, putting 500 Palestinians out of a good job.
I'd suggested an alternative. Create a Palestinian-based version of SodaStream using the Palestinian labor which lost jobs. Allow them to market to the Islamic states, using SodaStream designs, R&D, etc. Create incentives which benefit both Palestinian business and Israeli support for the Palestinian business.
There are plenty of win-win approaches. Bigots get in the way, insisting on lose-lose instead.
But has there been a situation in history that mirrors the conflict that is happening now? Gaza will run out of room quickly with the population expansion.
Some genocide, huh?
I like consideration of creative solutions. But at first blush I see problems with this. What would prevent them from taking over Israeli the companies? For that matter, what stops them from using their ill-gotten gains from buying Israeli stock now? The Musk Model if you will.
On a slightly different note I read an article recently that water companies here in the states had been hacked and warned that any company using Israeli components were subject to cyber attacks.
Proactive Israeli monitoring.
I lack the information to be specific, but not only is the idea that it is best to attack alliances, motivations and resources as old as Sun Tzu, the ability of the Arab refugees to do so effectively has not only enabled them to make bank since the original war which created the refugees, but to do so without most "Palestinians" being the wiser.
Honestly, it's a bit like our own "War on Terrorism". We the American people were manipulated into writing an essentially blank check to the Military-Industrial Complex, and failed almost entirely to notice that the trillions we spent were largely wasted. Certainly, the Left screamed about it at the time, but they have since decided that war is good. It's been comical watching them cite Chamberlain, as I myself did in 2001, when I still believed the official narrative.
Whenever you can get strong emotions involved, particularly the protective instincts of men, you can get people to stop thinking rationally, to stop seeing what is in front of them, and to stop pursuing their own objective best interest.
Peace has LONG been in the best interest of the "Palestinians" as a whole. It is simply not in the interest of the people who control them. And I don't think Americans are all that different. I supported all our wars, at length and for years. It wasn't until I started thinking carefully about 9/11 around 2010 that I started feeling a vague nausea that has only increased since.
I have a similar trajectory. Oddly this notion that peace is in the best interest of Palestinians is comforting in that we are in the same boat - being sold a bill of goods by those we count on to govern in our best interests.
Edited to add: this also explains why capitalism must be destroyed by those who wish us ill.
The irony is that the most dangerous opponents of “Capitalism” are precisely the power elites that Communism is supposed to combat. But they have coopted the actual power dynamic, enlisted fools to help them realize what they think they oppose, and are treating the only remaining true Liberal as criminals.
Agreed.
Very well said.
> Gaza must be internationalized. It must no longer be an Israeli problem or even an Israeli-Egyptian problem, but the responsibility of the international community, above all the United States.
The United States is literally on the other side of the world. Also, is that something Israel would be supportive of? I get the impression that Israel wants to deal with problems inside (or near) their borders, and wants US aid only as far as it helps them achieve their own goals; they don't want to cede sovereignty to a foreign power.
Internationalization makes sense. The problem is a global one, why should tiny Israel bear full responsibility for managing it? Gaza is a fuse that can ignite a bomb labeled WWIII. Certainly as long as other countries ignore the problem, it will continue to fester, and Hamas and Iran will continue their despicable ways. The future of the world is at stake here, it's not just a minor regional conflict between two enemies. One side wants to live in peace and prosperity, the other side is hell bent on destroying everything western. Israel is just the first step toward that goal. This is an existential problem for the modern world.
Jonathan Miller, Gaza is ALREADY "internationalized"! The fact that the world body of the UN is consistently against Israel displays what "internationalizing" Gaza looks like. The REAL underlying problem is Iran. Deal with THAT issue and we may see resolution in Gaza.
Precisely. If the UN is given any responsibility in the administration of a future Gaza we will return to the status quo ante. The UN has no value to the citizens of the world. It is in the hands of the globalists and one-world authoritarians and needs to go.
Agreed the primitive religious leadership in Iran is the root of the problem.
The "Palestinian" issue - the conflict between Jews and Arabs in the land of Israel - long predates the Islamic dictatorship in Iran. From this, I think we can conclude that, while Iran's involvement is a significant element, it cannot be "the root."
Correct but just as to modern "Iran". The root is in their ancestors. Oddly enough I think it is Iran's slavish devotion thereto that prevents them from being truly modern.
That's a point.
An international solution would require agreement on an.international scale. That does not exist. So to internationalize Gaza is just kicking the can down the road.
"Internationalizing" Gaza? Mph! Excuse ME, I just snorted my coffee through my nose! Just look at the UN Assembly. How many nations are actual friends of Israel? And how many have consistently voted AGAINST Israel in the past? THERE! You have your answer about "nationalizing" Gaza. It would be a ludicrous suggestion if it were made by crackpot dictators, but for the supposedly rational leaders of the world it is just fiction. My solution would be to leave the area a wasteland and let the inhabitants migrate elsewhere. They will "internationalize" themselves! Is this merciless? Yes, it IS! But to whom does one show mercy? Those who suffer, but are willing to change their state of being, and THAT is not the "palestinians" who live, breath, and eat their hatred of Israel. Leave it a wasteland!
"I just snorted my coffee through my nose! "
Sounds painful.
Ironically, Palestinians need neglect. Time for them to get their act together without "help". Turns out, "help" is not what it seems. Palestinians are constantly being manipulated by their "friends" who prefer to see them in constant conflict.
No one wants Palestinians to migrate to their country. No one wants the disorder and chaos they bring.
The "international community"? Oy.
I think Mr. Oren is a really admirable man, but this discussion seems as fantastic as Harry Potter.
I agree! There IS no "international community", but there IS an international MOB, the members of which are only motivated by their own self-interests! But one common denominator that they DO have is their hate for Israel.
As exemplified by the United Nations.
Maybe Mr. Oren has a vision of the composition of the "international community" he imagines and an explanation of how it has the authority and ability to construct the peaceable Gaza of his dreams.
Cynthia Yes, and it would have to be a fantasy as large as the one I just read here. As I read further and further, I got more hopeless and more hopeless. Why doesn't Israel just lie to the bastards, then kill them all anyway.
Because Israelis have a moral compass. And their enemy does not. It is quite the conundrum.
It's what the bastards would do to Israel in a heartbeat.
Nor should they. Especially to the Muslim dominated third Obama term administration currently vise locked in power.
I like your colorful and apt description.
It might be necessary but it would require the creation of a new international body to do so. The UN is nor the answer and arguably has fueled the Arabs we now refer to as Palestinian anarchy. And it is complicit in other misdeeds as well. Like no sanctions against Russia over the invasion of Ukraine because the calls therefor are voted down by Russia. This type of thing is why I resist calls for globalization.
It is very sad that the UN has effectively disqualified itself from playing a useful role. The Israelis have zero reason to trust the UN -- and mountains of reason to distrust it.
Won’t happen. Israel intends to end the thing here and now. No more western bullshit.
Not the other side of the world. Israel is much closer than many think. The great-circle distance between New York and Tel Aviv is roughly 5700 miles. This is less than one-quarter of the circumference of the planet, and only about 700 miles greater than the distance between New York and Honolulu. Add in the fact that NATO territories are as close as Greece and Turkey, and Israel reasonably can be considered our geopolitical backyard. This is even before considering the tremendous significance of Suez and the Gulf.
We hear the usual voices shrieking for a ceasefire and crying crocodile tears for the "innocent people of Gaza." Well, if you really care for the people of Gaza you would want to see them freed from the barbarian fiends who oppress them, use them as human shields and continue to make their lives as miserable as possible while indoctrinating their children with an implacable hatred of Israel.
I have said over and over again since this whole thing started that the enemy of the Palestinians is not Israel, the enemy of the Palestinians is Hamas.
And the bloodthirsty fiends in Qatar and other playgrounds of the rich who bankroll the barbarians.
I watched a documentary (2018?) about Gaza a few weeks ago. One of the guys featured had FORTY children.
Well Mr.Oren you're wrong about other things as well. The best possible outcome would be for the surrounding Arab nations to absorb the so called "Palestinians" into their population. Perhaps some reasearch into why this hasn't happened should begin.
Incidentally are you familiar with how Palestinian is pronounced in Arabic?
Why would any nation run by sane leaders be willing to absorb 2 million people who have been brainwashed into a lethal combination of futility and terrorism? Do you or anyone else really think that all these Gazan folks will suddenly become gentle peace-loving aspiring entrepreneurs if relocated to another country? It will take 20-40 years to reeducate the society and populate it with a new generation of youth with a more peaceful and productive mindset.
Dear Jonathan when my kin have a problem I am bound by blood. I'm obligated. That extends to my people. These people are Arabs. Clearly they have made living within Israel next to impossible for themselves. If I were an Israeli Muslim (which is what they are) I would be out of there they day before yesterday. That's what a sane person would do. If I was an Egyptian and had Israeli Arab kin they would find a home with me. That's what a compassionate person does. I'm not saying the Arabs don't belong in Israel because clearly they do. I'm saying why would you stubbornly stay?
Relocate them to some remote island, or maybe in the middle of the Amazonian jungle. ANYWHERE but where they are now!
Is it... Philistine?
Indeed it is.
And the Hebrew word which can be translated violent, cruel, unrighteous?
The U.S. should not get involved in the rebuilding of Gaza. Our track record in rebuilding and democratizing other Muslim countries - Iraq, Afghanistan, etc., speaks for itself.
Regardless of your thoughts on this conflict, the idea that it’s the US responsibility to come in and rebuild Gaza and reestablish order (I.e. military occupation) is BANANAS. This guy is literally living in an alternate reality.
You break it you buy it.
We did break it. We're funding Iran, funding the UN, funding a ton of Hamas affiliated NGOs at home and abroad... I don't want US troops in Gaza, however.
By funding Iran, I believe you are referring to unfreezing their money that we had seized. We fund Saudi, should we pay to industrialize Yemen? You know who else was funding Hamas? Israel, from Netanyahu’s mouth directly. Gaza is not the US taxpayers burden.
I don't support our tax dollars funding terrorism, because I don't support terrorism. This is precisely why we have mechanisms in place to limit funds to sanctioned states and peoples. It is simply a matter of enforcing those laws and sanctions we already have in place, which the Biden administration refuses to do. I hope you join me in calling our representatives in the Senate and Congress to uphold our laws and go further by investigating and defunding NGOs that fund terrorism like CAIR.
I am happy for my tax dollars to fund a large pillar of salt where Gaza once stood and nothing else.
lol...turning Gaza into a pillar of salt sounds a bit holocausty for the 2 million civilians that live there. But glad you don’t support “terrorism”
Tell me you know nothing about Palestinians without telling me you know nothing about Palestinians... Ask Egypt, Jordan, Kuwait, Lebanon, or even Sweden about how mass immigration of Palestinians worked out for them.
Attempting to take the moral high ground while arguing for the slaughter of an entire ethnic group of 2 million people because they are all apparently evil is quite a feat of mental gymnastics
Western Europe is fucked since they have already been invaded. I think Bibi said to the EU if we do not stop them you are next.
How many believe all of these protests are random? Or are organized by Muslim invaders?
Europe is already gone.
The author’s solution seems like some imagined utopia, but in reality will never happen. Gaza needs to be once again part of Israel, and settled by Israelis. That will be the only way to ensure the safety of her people. Other countries have taken in refugees. There’s no reason why Arab countries shouldn’t take in Arab refugees.
There's lots of reasons why nobody wants Pal immigrants - except Justin Trudeau, who is already booking hotel rooms for them.
Asl the Jordanians about that.
Palestinians never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity. Palestinian leaders are motivated by self preservation and greed. Their self preservation means they can never make peace with Israel. If they do, they risk assassination. Their greed means they have to keep their people poor so they can embezzle aid money.
Eliminating Hamas may change the self preservation calculations. It will certainly show Israel is no longer deterred by Palestinian human shield casualties. It may show Palestinians that their role as human shields is not a winning role.
Ultimately, Middle East terrorism is largely funded and supported by Iran. If you want to silence Achmed, The Dead Terrorist, you gag Jeff Dunham, not the dummy. The Iranian Mullahs are very unpopular internally in Iran. Maybe it's time to fund an Iranian revolution.
And, in the aftermath of war, the nations that harbor Hamas terrorists -- Qatar and Turkey for example -- must be exposed, publicly vilified, and punished as outcasts from the civilized world.
Now how many believe America has been invaded by Muslims?
Wishful thinking.
What is Hamas? It's a group of BEASTS. Who supports the BEASTS? Most Palestinians support the beasts. Defeating Hamas is a must because the BEASTS are an existential threat not only to Israel but any Western Democracy & most importantly the U.S.; The destruction of Hamas represents merely a respite for Israel. The snake's venomous head lies in Tehran & unless the snake is destroyed world chaos will reign.
I will agree that HAMAS is acting beastly... but I will not call them beasts and let them off the hook for being a basic human.
This will never end. Nobody reads books anymore. Wars used to end and now they don’t. What changed? Nobody wipes out their opponent anymore.
Rome and Carthage were in multiple wars until Rome ended it. You’ll notice the Nazi party isn’t around any more because we killed Nazi’s all the way back to Berlin. With Japan we had to flatten two cities. The Ottomans sliced through Constantinople and took it over. How did the Mongolians do things again? Oh right....
Since WWII smaller “ armies” avoid overwhelming force by mixing in with civilians. In Vietnam, Iraq, Afghanistan . etc .etc. The resolve to move in and kill every last person to end the conflict permanently isn’t there.
So, nothing in Gaza will change and Israel will end up fighting the same war over and over again. The proper end to the conflict is expelling the Palestinians to one of their Arab neighbors. The same neighbors who get so upset about the fighting yet seem to have no interest in helping in any meaningful way.
All people in Gaza need to be relocated to Muslim countries far far away. All people in west Bank need to be relocated to jordan. UN red cross and similar need to be relocated. Far far away. Lebanon needs to be resettled as a Christian state- country. All Muslims in Lebanon need to be relocated far far away.
There never will be peace. the Muslims believe convert or die. Just look at how many blacks and Christians the Muslims have killed in Africa. All Christians in Africa can move to Lebanon.
Before any of this utopia can come about, 2 million Gazans must be de-Islamicized. The fastest way to do that is to Christianize them. Replace UNRWA-Hamas schools with nuns. Of course Christianity has its issues with Jews but jihad is not built into it. If we want our neighbors to be peace -loving Scandinavians instead of barbaric Vikings, Christianize them.
Unfortunately the Gaza problem should become the responsibility of the next US president. As things look now it will be an age demented old man surrounded by Obama appointees whose latent anti semitism is responsible for this mess or equally as bad a narcissistic madman who is barely able to stay out of jail. His agenda will just be revenge against his personal enemies. It does not now appear that going forward the US presidency will be in a position to promote peace in Gaza. So that role will fall into the hands of the corrupt anti semites at what is now euphemistically called the United Nations. Heaven help the Israelis and any other small nations that needed the protection of the USA.
Why would this be the responsibility of the US or of a US president? Our own borders are being invaded and overwhelmed. We face the serious rot of fentanyl addiction, woke victimhood, and Tik Tok-crafted mindlessness, and govt-tech censorship that may have already mortally infected our country from within. But your view of the US presidential race does ring a bell...sigh.
Meanwhile, Biden's handlers continue to fund everyone (friend or foe-it matters not), a terrible joke of an effort to stay in favor, racking up ever more impossible taxpayer debt. Btw, Trump did foster the Abraham accord. Pray we get some real leadership.
Yes, but that narcissistic orange man does not equivocate on his support of Israel.
No question excepting the fact that no one wants to work for him anymore including his son in law. It will be an impossibility to defeat the deep state single hand idly especially if you are fighting tooth and nail to stay out of jail.
Very true.
But given the choice of the two…
Why not turn them into peace loving Jews!
Takes too long, but that's the plan for Judea and Samaria. It's obviously worthwhile to the Arabs there, as if they converted to Judaism they would instantly become settlers with all the attendant benefits yet without having to leave home.