Suzy, you no doubt know that the People of Israel are “those who wrestle with God“. This event should be celebrated, rather than viewed as threatening.
Speaking not as a Catholic, I have been much more impressed with the theological writings of Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI. For my money, Pope Francis is committing the same errors found on the liberal side of the Protestant churches, largely emptying with all manner of rainbows on their websites. Desperate to fill their churches, some Roman Catholic leaders are turning their faith into a large book group. This has been the temptation across the Jewish and Christian faiths, and too many of my Jewish friends have forsaken belief in God while clinging to the notion that they are somehow still Jewish. Is that not just a tribal claim? One that our woke culture should probe and think about more clearly? This is not a litmus test on homosexuality, abortion or any belief upon which people of conscience might differ but about retaining a sense of humility that confesses that we do not know what we do not know.
It is good that you have reported on this gathering, and I am no fan of mob ravings, either at a Catholic conference or a Bruce Springsteen concert. They become a bit unhinged and expose the animal spirits that lie beneath our better selves. However, not one of us should look with derision at the questions posed by these groups. Only time, and history, will bear out the Truth. I, for one, find these movements to be much more intellectually challenging than the “I’m OK, you’re OK” pablum of our post- modern age.
Ask Sam Harris about a future without God. He will probably say it is the unshackling of humanity and send you a link to his meditation app. Because, after all, he and his friends have real knowledge. Just ask him.
Suzy writes: "For many, that means returning to a time before the Second Vatican Council, which, among many changes, expressly disavowed any theological basis for antisemitism. The conference attendees probably don’t believe the Jews are Christ-killers, but they do crave a more authentic Church, one that hasn’t forgotten itself."
"Probably???" Why the hell did Suzy feel the need to introduce this sort of snarky, back handed insinuation of anti-Semitism about a group of well meaning people who are trying to steer their church away from the leftist claptrap that masquerades as "religion" nowadays. My own local Episcopal church might as well be a DNC boot camp; it's just that leftist. I am increasingly bothered and annoyed by the elitist, urban snark that finds its way into the Free Press's writings about decent Americans from our Heartland trying to find meaning and social cohesion in these lunatic times. Just please stop and self-reflect.
I don’t quite follow the line that the about anti-semitism being acceptable before Vatican 2.
For one, just because the church didn’t expressly condemn it, didn’t mean it condoned it. I think would require a longer and more in depth argument. And for two, that doesn’t mean that these people are anti-Semitic. Again, much more evidence would need to be shown. From my understanding of this group, that is not even on their radar.
The line, frankly, seems like a snide aside and a tip of the hand from the neutral journalist position. It seems meant to condemn a group for at anti-semitism without proving it exists.
Way too much attention is paid to the structure of a church, any church, vs. the message of Jesus Christ. The structure of a church is man made and imperfect. Humans screw things up, we are so good at that. So just focus on Jesus and his messages. It is really remarkable that this God-made-man entered the middle east at a time when savagery, idol worship, and burnt offerings were the norm. He dismissed the 600+ laws of the Jews and distilled it down to one---Love God, Love you neighbor as yourself. No more angry, vengeful God of the Jews. Now God loved us so much, he humiliated himself and died for our sins. So pay no attention to the Pope or any other religious leader who doesn’t spend 100% of his time on Jesus’ teachings.
"There are pictures of singer Sam Smith dressed as a devil, transgender influencer Dylan Mulvaney clutching a Bud Light can, and Drag Queen Story Hour at a public library." - Yes, there are "pictures" because these things have occurred and are occurring in a culture that wants to cast off any resemblance to a Christian nation. What's interesting to me is when you ask what does a country look like that embraces the opposite of "Thou shall not kill" or "Thou shall not lie"? Is that a place where any sane person wishes to live? Christian activism has increased because the liberal left extremists turned up the temperature in the room to normalize ONLY their opinions and lifestyles. What is the percentage of men that like to cross-dress as women in their daily lives? A simple Google search produces 1.5 percent. So, the Catholic Church must change their entire religious order for 1.5 percent of a group of people? That actually sounds extremist to me.
"The conference attendees probably don’t believe the Jews are Christ-killers, but they do crave a more authentic Church, one that hasn’t forgotten itself." - What an odd thing to insert into this article. It seems to imply that there is a baseline anti-Semitic tone to this whole conference and its attendees. Most Catholics (including me) who are frustrated with the modern Church are just looking to limit the number of guitars and drum sets that are played during the mass, because it's really annoying. I promise we aren't anti-Semitic!
According to the dogma of the Catholic Church, the Pope, the successor of Peter, is infallible. In religion, dogmas are dogmas. There have been schisms since the beginning of Christianity and today everybody is free to go and establish their own church, as opposed to the good days of yore when heretics god killed en masse and in impressive fashions by the orthodox believers (of course, both sides since the beginning of history have held to be the one true believers).
But these priests suffer from the very main sin of the wokery they abhor: they pretend to victimhood where none is to be found. Their problem is that they want to have their cake and eat it too: they want to be acknowledged as being right by a church whose hierarchy they despise and whose edicts they refuse to recognise.
If you’re worried about incipient anti semitism in the Catholic Church you’re not going to find it. There have always been and always will be Catholics who blame Jews for Christ’s death. They are a small minority and that percentage has decreased in the past 40 years. If you’re Jewish and think you have something to fear from conservative Catholicism you are ignorant of the facts.
These people were not canceled in the Kingdom of God, they were relieved of their duties in the Catholic Church. Not for ignoring God but for not following the rules of the Catholic Church and edicts of the Pope, They have the opportunity to start a new Church and instead of funding the Canon lawyers they could be starting the new Church.
Africa is the continent with the fastest growing Catholic population. The number of Catholics in Africa is projected to increase by 146% from 2004 to 2050. This growth is being driven by a number of factors, including high birth rates, conversion from other religions, and immigration from other parts of the world.
Asia is another continent with a rapidly growing Catholic population. The number of Catholics in Asia is projected to increase by 63% from 2004 to 2050. This growth is being driven by high birth rates, conversion from other religions, and economic development.
Look at the pictures. These people are not looking to the future of the Chruch, they are lamenting of "how it used to be". Once again it is the minority trying to force themselves on the majority. Victims of their own greed.
“...which, among many changes, expressly disavowed any theological basis for antisemitism.” This is disingenuous reporting. How does this better inform the reader? You are poisoning the well. I expect reporting of this caliber from Fox and CNN. This implication is egregious and disgusting, to imply that traditionalists would in any way have a soft stance on antisemitism is garbage. A call to tradition is not by necessity a call to backwards thinking.
The authors throw away line linking opposition to Vatican II with support for anti-Semitism is disingenuous at best. "For many, that means returning to a time before the Second Vatican Council, which, among many changes, expressly disavowed any theological basis for antisemitism."
The proceedings of Vatican II lasted for two months, hundreds of scholars and church leaders were involved. 16 Decrees containing hundreds of paragraphs were promulgated by Vatican II, one of which (Declaration 7) addressed the issue of anti-Semitism in four places, the same Decree also mentions Hindus, Moslems and Buddhists where we (Catholics) are told that these other faiths teach "a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination. Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing "ways," comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ "the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.(4)
The Church, therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men.as faiths" .
I am not interested in downplaying the importance of the public declaration by the church that anti-Semitism is wrong but the author leaves the impression (purposefully in my opinion) that opposition to the wide ranging changes to the church ushered in by Vatican II is a mark of anti-Semitism. Like the culture wars today in which opposition to transgender surgery for minors turns one into a homophobe, opposition to the many interpretations of the decrees that many Catholics feel went beyond their original intent is used as a cudgel to silence opponents of some of the more radical reforms in doctrine and practice of the church.
Suzy, you no doubt know that the People of Israel are “those who wrestle with God“. This event should be celebrated, rather than viewed as threatening.
Speaking not as a Catholic, I have been much more impressed with the theological writings of Pope John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI. For my money, Pope Francis is committing the same errors found on the liberal side of the Protestant churches, largely emptying with all manner of rainbows on their websites. Desperate to fill their churches, some Roman Catholic leaders are turning their faith into a large book group. This has been the temptation across the Jewish and Christian faiths, and too many of my Jewish friends have forsaken belief in God while clinging to the notion that they are somehow still Jewish. Is that not just a tribal claim? One that our woke culture should probe and think about more clearly? This is not a litmus test on homosexuality, abortion or any belief upon which people of conscience might differ but about retaining a sense of humility that confesses that we do not know what we do not know.
It is good that you have reported on this gathering, and I am no fan of mob ravings, either at a Catholic conference or a Bruce Springsteen concert. They become a bit unhinged and expose the animal spirits that lie beneath our better selves. However, not one of us should look with derision at the questions posed by these groups. Only time, and history, will bear out the Truth. I, for one, find these movements to be much more intellectually challenging than the “I’m OK, you’re OK” pablum of our post- modern age.
Ask Sam Harris about a future without God. He will probably say it is the unshackling of humanity and send you a link to his meditation app. Because, after all, he and his friends have real knowledge. Just ask him.
Suzy writes: "For many, that means returning to a time before the Second Vatican Council, which, among many changes, expressly disavowed any theological basis for antisemitism. The conference attendees probably don’t believe the Jews are Christ-killers, but they do crave a more authentic Church, one that hasn’t forgotten itself."
"Probably???" Why the hell did Suzy feel the need to introduce this sort of snarky, back handed insinuation of anti-Semitism about a group of well meaning people who are trying to steer their church away from the leftist claptrap that masquerades as "religion" nowadays. My own local Episcopal church might as well be a DNC boot camp; it's just that leftist. I am increasingly bothered and annoyed by the elitist, urban snark that finds its way into the Free Press's writings about decent Americans from our Heartland trying to find meaning and social cohesion in these lunatic times. Just please stop and self-reflect.
The antisemitism crack was out of left field, there was no connect text, quote, description or anything.
I don’t quite follow the line that the about anti-semitism being acceptable before Vatican 2.
For one, just because the church didn’t expressly condemn it, didn’t mean it condoned it. I think would require a longer and more in depth argument. And for two, that doesn’t mean that these people are anti-Semitic. Again, much more evidence would need to be shown. From my understanding of this group, that is not even on their radar.
The line, frankly, seems like a snide aside and a tip of the hand from the neutral journalist position. It seems meant to condemn a group for at anti-semitism without proving it exists.
“You cannot be Catholic and a Democrat.”
———————————————————-
I’m not Catholic but yeah I would imagine being possessed by Satan limits your ability to be a real Catholic.
“She kicked off the two-day event with a rant……..”
“But under the lanyards and the cheery faces of the volunteers working the conference is a roiling anger…..”
“Another gripe that comes up in several of the speeches…….”
“Some of the rage here dates as far back to 2003……..”
“it might kill your baby in the womb,” Johnson boomed……”
————————————————————
Boy these people sound like dangerous cornered animals who don’t trust the science.
*calls FBI extremism hotline
Way too much attention is paid to the structure of a church, any church, vs. the message of Jesus Christ. The structure of a church is man made and imperfect. Humans screw things up, we are so good at that. So just focus on Jesus and his messages. It is really remarkable that this God-made-man entered the middle east at a time when savagery, idol worship, and burnt offerings were the norm. He dismissed the 600+ laws of the Jews and distilled it down to one---Love God, Love you neighbor as yourself. No more angry, vengeful God of the Jews. Now God loved us so much, he humiliated himself and died for our sins. So pay no attention to the Pope or any other religious leader who doesn’t spend 100% of his time on Jesus’ teachings.
"The conference attendees probably don’t believe the Jews are Christ-killers"
Now why did I read the word "probably" in 24 point type?
"There are pictures of singer Sam Smith dressed as a devil, transgender influencer Dylan Mulvaney clutching a Bud Light can, and Drag Queen Story Hour at a public library." - Yes, there are "pictures" because these things have occurred and are occurring in a culture that wants to cast off any resemblance to a Christian nation. What's interesting to me is when you ask what does a country look like that embraces the opposite of "Thou shall not kill" or "Thou shall not lie"? Is that a place where any sane person wishes to live? Christian activism has increased because the liberal left extremists turned up the temperature in the room to normalize ONLY their opinions and lifestyles. What is the percentage of men that like to cross-dress as women in their daily lives? A simple Google search produces 1.5 percent. So, the Catholic Church must change their entire religious order for 1.5 percent of a group of people? That actually sounds extremist to me.
"The conference attendees probably don’t believe the Jews are Christ-killers, but they do crave a more authentic Church, one that hasn’t forgotten itself." - What an odd thing to insert into this article. It seems to imply that there is a baseline anti-Semitic tone to this whole conference and its attendees. Most Catholics (including me) who are frustrated with the modern Church are just looking to limit the number of guitars and drum sets that are played during the mass, because it's really annoying. I promise we aren't anti-Semitic!
According to the dogma of the Catholic Church, the Pope, the successor of Peter, is infallible. In religion, dogmas are dogmas. There have been schisms since the beginning of Christianity and today everybody is free to go and establish their own church, as opposed to the good days of yore when heretics god killed en masse and in impressive fashions by the orthodox believers (of course, both sides since the beginning of history have held to be the one true believers).
But these priests suffer from the very main sin of the wokery they abhor: they pretend to victimhood where none is to be found. Their problem is that they want to have their cake and eat it too: they want to be acknowledged as being right by a church whose hierarchy they despise and whose edicts they refuse to recognise.
It is pretty ridiculous.
If you’re worried about incipient anti semitism in the Catholic Church you’re not going to find it. There have always been and always will be Catholics who blame Jews for Christ’s death. They are a small minority and that percentage has decreased in the past 40 years. If you’re Jewish and think you have something to fear from conservative Catholicism you are ignorant of the facts.
These people were not canceled in the Kingdom of God, they were relieved of their duties in the Catholic Church. Not for ignoring God but for not following the rules of the Catholic Church and edicts of the Pope, They have the opportunity to start a new Church and instead of funding the Canon lawyers they could be starting the new Church.
Africa is the continent with the fastest growing Catholic population. The number of Catholics in Africa is projected to increase by 146% from 2004 to 2050. This growth is being driven by a number of factors, including high birth rates, conversion from other religions, and immigration from other parts of the world.
Asia is another continent with a rapidly growing Catholic population. The number of Catholics in Asia is projected to increase by 63% from 2004 to 2050. This growth is being driven by high birth rates, conversion from other religions, and economic development.
Look at the pictures. These people are not looking to the future of the Chruch, they are lamenting of "how it used to be". Once again it is the minority trying to force themselves on the majority. Victims of their own greed.
“...which, among many changes, expressly disavowed any theological basis for antisemitism.” This is disingenuous reporting. How does this better inform the reader? You are poisoning the well. I expect reporting of this caliber from Fox and CNN. This implication is egregious and disgusting, to imply that traditionalists would in any way have a soft stance on antisemitism is garbage. A call to tradition is not by necessity a call to backwards thinking.
The authors throw away line linking opposition to Vatican II with support for anti-Semitism is disingenuous at best. "For many, that means returning to a time before the Second Vatican Council, which, among many changes, expressly disavowed any theological basis for antisemitism."
The proceedings of Vatican II lasted for two months, hundreds of scholars and church leaders were involved. 16 Decrees containing hundreds of paragraphs were promulgated by Vatican II, one of which (Declaration 7) addressed the issue of anti-Semitism in four places, the same Decree also mentions Hindus, Moslems and Buddhists where we (Catholics) are told that these other faiths teach "a way by which men, in a devout and confident spirit, may be able either to acquire the state of perfect liberation, or attain, by their own efforts or through higher help, supreme illumination. Likewise, other religions found everywhere try to counter the restlessness of the human heart, each in its own manner, by proposing "ways," comprising teachings, rules of life, and sacred rites. The Catholic Church rejects nothing that is true and holy in these religions. She regards with sincere reverence those ways of conduct and of life, those precepts and teachings which, though differing in many aspects from the ones she holds and sets forth, nonetheless often reflect a ray of that Truth which enlightens all men. Indeed, she proclaims, and ever must proclaim Christ "the way, the truth, and the life" (John 14:6), in whom men may find the fullness of religious life, in whom God has reconciled all things to Himself.(4)
The Church, therefore, exhorts her sons, that through dialogue and collaboration with the followers of other religions, carried out with prudence and love and in witness to the Christian faith and life, they recognize, preserve and promote the good things, spiritual and moral, as well as the socio-cultural values found among these men.as faiths" .
I am not interested in downplaying the importance of the public declaration by the church that anti-Semitism is wrong but the author leaves the impression (purposefully in my opinion) that opposition to the wide ranging changes to the church ushered in by Vatican II is a mark of anti-Semitism. Like the culture wars today in which opposition to transgender surgery for minors turns one into a homophobe, opposition to the many interpretations of the decrees that many Catholics feel went beyond their original intent is used as a cudgel to silence opponents of some of the more radical reforms in doctrine and practice of the church.
he gets props for holding msss during covid